2009 All-Australian Team

[AG]

That doesn't stack up for me, I'd rate these players above Ablett's output this year;

Swan, Riewoldt, Montagna, Goddard, J. Brown, Chapman, Selwood.

Ablett had some hot games and then some games where he was just sucking up cheap 1-2's, then missed some games and has been "meh" for a few games (maybe injured, but that's the luck of the dice. Maybe Melbourne game was pretty good 3 weeks back). If he has 4 ordinary ones I say he would be on the bench at best. But reputation will get him through.

1. Riewoldt
2. Ablett
3. Montagna
4. Hayes
5. Swan
6. Dal Santo
7. Selwood
8. Brown
9. Judd
10. Chapman

That's my top 10 at the moment. I sort of agree with you though about his form. He is still in the starting lineup though and the only players challenging for a starting spot are Judd, Boyd and Dal Santo, so he should make the team.

 

[SnappyHappy]

Aussie_Gun, the only thing I think that needs to change from your side is Jimmy Bartel needs to be in the squad of 40. He probably wouldn't fit into the side but he at least deserves a spot in the squad IMO. He has had a terrific year and has really had a good last few months, with big games against St.Kilda, Hawthorn and Adelaide to name a few.

Looking at the squad I think he should be ahead of Jobe Watson, Sam Mitchell, Brad Sewell and possibly Simon Black and Marc Murphy. Surely it's time to get him in the squad.

In: J. Bartel, Out: J. Watson would be the change I'd make.

Apart from that, the side is just about perfect. Good to see Selwood in the guts.

 

[AG]

Aussie_Gun, the only thing I think that needs to change from your side is Jimmy Bartel needs to be in the squad of 40. He probably wouldn't fit into the side but he at least deserves a spot in the squad IMO. He has had a terrific year and has really had a good last few months, with big games against St.Kilda, Hawthorn and Adelaide to name a few.

Looking at the squad I think he should be ahead of Jobe Watson, Sam Mitchell, Brad Sewell and possibly Simon Black and Marc Murphy. Surely it's time to get him in the squad.

In: J. Bartel, Out: J. Watson would be the change I'd make.

Apart from that, the side is just about perfect. Good to see Selwood in the guts.

He is definitely closing but I'd still have Pendlebury ahead of him. O'Keefe could be moved to the mids. So those two and Bartel are the only players who can still make the midfielders category. Most Geelong fans were dissapointed with the first half of his year but he has found form in the second half. Sewell definitely stays. Murphy and Black are pretty safe. Not a massive fan of Mitchell but he has been fairly good. Watson would have been out if he played poorly against the Eagles. The last few spots are hard too pick but any of the players I mentioned could deserve a spot.

 

[prattsta]

Pavlich probably could be in the squad but I still think Goodes is having a better year. Normally I'm harsh on Goodes because I don't think he does enough but this year he has been our best player in my opinion.

If Pavlich finishes off the season like he's played the last 2 weeks he'll probably make the squad. The selectors normally give more weight to end of year performances because they are to stupid to remember what they had for breakfast, let alone who played well in round 1. Personally I wouldn't include him. It's a tough call though, he's had some outstanding games and he's had some average games - by his standards anyway.

Haven't really seen enough of Goodes this year to comment on him, maybe 3-4 games...

They have had remarkably similar years from a statistically point of view though.

 

[catempire]

Haha, thanks but it's all opinion so there is no right or wrong. Only thing I worry about with the selectors is not picking a player like Gilbert because of the '2 year rule'.

Don't sell yourself short. You clearly put a lot of work into it and you are always able to back up your opinion with reasoned argument.

The Gilbert thing is exactly the type of thing I have in mind. Established players tend to get preference over younger ones. I also think it's harder to "lose" AA than it is to gain it. A player that was AA last season and has similar numbers this season will be likely to be picked again.

Ablett had some hot games and then some games where he was just sucking up cheap 1-2's

Not this shit again. Name the games where he's done that.

 

[Richo83]

Anyone else reckon Aussie Gun's team will end up being better than the real thing?

Big chance.

AG's graphic shows one thing: if there's one thing wrong with the bulldogs, it's certainly not their backline. With three backmen in contention for AA, the bulldogs' lack of talls is only really a problem down forward.

 

[SnappyHappy]

He is definitely closing but I'd still have Pendlebury ahead of him. O'Keefe could be moved to the mids. So those two and Bartel are the only players who can still make the midfielders category. Most Geelong fans were dissapointed with the first half of his year but he has found form in the second half. Sewell definitely stays. Murphy and Black are pretty safe. Not a massive fan of Mitchell but he has been fairly good. Watson would have been out if he played poorly against the Eagles. The last few spots are hard too pick but any of the players I mentioned could deserve a spot.

Fair enough, but I'd say if Bartel finishes off the rest of the year strongly he would definitely deserve a spot ahead of Mitchell and Watson, if not already.

 

[rose jam]

Not this shit again. Name the games where he's done that.

Off the top of my head Adelaide, Kangaroos, Melbourne, few more I can't remember because I don't give a rats about your team

 

[AG]

Fair enough, but I'd say if Bartel finishes off the rest of the year strongly he would definitely deserve a spot ahead of Mitchell and Watson, if not already.

I'd agree with that.

 

[Richo83]

I'm going to through this one at ya', if Judd and Ablett under perform like they have been recently for the next 4 weeks do they deserve to make it?

Probably looking closer at Ablett here, given he missed 3 weeks? + that would make about 8 ordinary games giving him only half a good year. Is that enough?

Mate, shut up. Ablett is well worthy as AA and Judd ditto. To suggest that players like J Brown (who has had quiet games) have had better seasons is stupidity. No, Ablett and Judd are in there.

AG, I'd have Bartell ahead of Pendlebury partly because I think Pendlebury is helped by a lesser focus via Swan and Davis and Bartell has had a few star games. Even if one considers Scott better this season, I still believe that yes, Bartell deserves to be in the top 40.

 

[Richo83]

Lockyer has been good but always seems to be behind a few others. Pavlich probably could be in the squad but I still think Goodes is having a better year. Normally I'm harsh on Goodes because I don't think he does enough but this year he has been our best player in my opinion.

I hope you don't take this as a troll (because it isn't) but in a somewhat ugly side, Goodes can shine out. I just don't think Goodes deserves to be in the side and if the forwardline is made up of 3 smalls in Johnson, Chapman and Davis and three talls in Fevola, Brown and Riewoldt I think it's a better mix. IMO, Goodes is not in the leading midfielders and one of the leading forwards which makes it tough for me to consider him AA. IMO anyway. Anyway that's my view lets agree to disagree.

Lets all agree on the stupidity of thinking Ablett doesn't deserve to be AA, rose jam can only think of three games (one of which Ablett was injured) of which Ablett was down in form (and players are allowed to have a few bad games and still be AA, I mean afterall, Hayes had a shocker against West Coast and I still think he's a monty for AA.

 

[smiddaz123]

Mate, shut up. Ablett is well worthy as AA and Judd ditto. To suggest that players like J Brown (who has had quiet games) have had better seasons is stupidity. No, Ablett and Judd are in there.

AG, I'd have Bartell ahead of Pendlebury partly because I think Pendlebury is helped by a lesser focus via Swan and Davis and Bartell has had a few star games. Even if one considers Scott better this season, I still believe that yes, Bartell deserves to be in the top 40.

What about Ablett and Selwood helping Bartel? Wasn't Bartel running around freely against Adelaide?

I'm not saying he isn't deserving, but how do you make that argument for Pendlebury but not Bartel

 

[pieman123]

Mate, shut up. Ablett is well worthy as AA and Judd ditto. To suggest that players like J Brown (who has had quiet games) have had better seasons is stupidity. No, Ablett and Judd are in there.

AG, I'd have Bartell ahead of Pendlebury partly because I think Pendlebury is helped by a lesser focus via Swan and Davis and Bartell has had a few star games. Even if one considers Scott better this season, I still believe that yes, Bartell deserves to be in the top 40.

So Pendlebury has had a better year than Bartel but Bartel deserves to be in the squad

 

[AG]

Your point of view makes perfect sense Richo. I guess I'm just looking at the season overall rather than as a forward or midfielder. I'm not too worried about the tall/small variety in the forward line but I think overall, Goodes has been better than every one else in the forwards category. I doubt he will get selected though, only reason I still have him in is because Higgins got injured, Didak slowed and both LeCras and Fev have been patchy. ROK started slowly but I think Goodes has more of an impact when he gets it. I understand where you are coming from though.

 

[catempire]

Off the top of my head Adelaide, Kangaroos, Melbourne, few more I can't remember because I don't give a rats about your team

And don't watch them very often, obviously.

Let me spell it out for you.

Yes, Ablett averages the most handball receives in the league - 14.9 per game. BUT...

Note that's just 1 more per game than Sam Mitchell, 2 more than NDS, and 2 more than your own Dane Swan. Are they "sucking up cheap 1-2s"?

Ablett is 5th in the league for contested possessions per game, a stat for which Dane Swan doesn't make the top 50. Ablett also has Mitchell covered there and Dal Santo by a long way.

In the games you singled out:

v Adelaide - 47 possessions, 5 tackles, 4 clearances, 3 goals. Any cheap 1-2s pretty irrelevant there.

v North - he didn't play. I'm pretty sure he had no cheap 1-2s in that match!

v Melbourne - 42 possessions, 6 clearances and 2 goals. Again, any cheap 1-2s pretty irrelevant and the game is a case for him being AA, not against it.

 

[smiddaz123]

Ablett gets 1-2s often, that isn't debatable.

The only thing is that they aren't cheap. People who think they are cheap are pretty much incorrect.

The 1-2s create space and time that he otherwise wouldn't have.

 

[pieman123]

Ablett is 5th in the league for contested possessions per game, a stat for which Dane Swan doesn't make the top 50. Ablett also has Mitchell covered there and Dal Santo by a long way.

umm Swan is 2nd in contested possessions

 

[catempire]

umm Swan is 2nd in contested possessions

Not here he's not.

He leads Ablett by 11 here but has played 3 more games.

 

[catempire]

Ablett gets 1-2s often, that isn't debatable.

The only thing is that they aren't cheap. People who think they are cheap are pretty much incorrect.

The 1-2s create space and time that he otherwise wouldn't have.

A fair assessment. And would you also agree that having some 1-2s doesn't make the other things he does any less valuable?

 

[J Selwood14]

ablett might get a lot of hand ball received but he is also leading in hard ball gets

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/player_rankings?yr=2009&sp=SE&rt=LA&fc=D6

 

[smiddaz123]

A fair assessment. And would you also agree that having some 1-2s doesn't make the other things he does any less valuable?

Yeh I would agree with that.

He's getting higher disposal numbers these days, but his 25-30 touch games of 2007, for example, are just as influential as his 40 touch games these days imo.

I think it was the Kangaroos who started the tactic of just corralling Ablett (someone correct me if I'm wrong), because he just couldn't be tackled if you went at him. Ablett has had to change his game up to counter this, because he can't just get the ball and run most of the time now.

 

[George Washington]

ablett might get a lot of hand ball received but he is also leading in hard ball gets

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/player_rankings?yr=2009&sp=SE&rt=LA&fc=D6

Watson 9th in that stat, just in case anyone didn't notice.

 

[smiddaz123]

Pro Stats is a pretty unreliable place for stats by reputation.

What does it have on the official AFL website?

 

[Richo83]

What about Ablett and Selwood helping Bartel? Wasn't Bartel running around freely against Adelaide?

I'm not saying he isn't deserving, but how do you make that argument for Pendlebury but not Bartel

I'm not arguing Pendlebury doesn't deserve recognition in an expanded 40.

So Pendlebury has had a better year than Bartel but Bartel deserves to be in the squad

I don't believe that, I said that to appease pies fans who may think I'm belittling Pendlebury's performances. Fwiw I think both should be in the top 40 but I think Bartel is closer to AA than Pendlebury, most games I think Davis or Swan has been the leading man for the pies whereas some games it has been Bartel and that's the crucial point. Anyway, again just my IMO.

And AG good post. Cheers.

Oh and cat empire, I think he was talking about the recent Adelaide game not the earliest one and the Melbourne game where Ablett got injured. Even so, it's still not a good enough argument and I agree with you. Ablett=AA.

 

[smiddaz123]

I didn;t post the second quote that you just quoted btw haha