2009 All-Australian Team

[smiddaz123]

With a TON and I mean a TON of help from his teammates. Even I could blanket a small forward with the likes of Scarlett Milburn and Harley next to me

They work as a unit. All of the defence help each other out and run off their opponents to do so.

There are no passengers, they all do this as well as each other. It isn't an easy role.

 

[Claude Balls]

Nah, I agree he isn't a definite AA yet. A case could be made for including him, it depends on what criteria a person uses. I won't argue against anyone not having him in, because he hasn't played as many games.

I was just arguing when you said he was crap earlier in the year, which wasn't true. That was pretty much it.

Yeah fair enough, I was letting a touch of Bay 13 slip into my post with the 'crap' call.

 

[Embers]

They work as a unit. All of the defence help each other out and run off their opponents to do so.

There are no passengers, they all do this as well as each other. It isn't an easy role.

Would be nice to see his spoils and defensive 50 marks to get a starting point as to where he compares with other defenders

 

[AG]

With a TON and I mean a TON of help from his teammates. Even I could blanket a small forward with the likes of Scarlett Milburn and Harley next to me

Harley has barely been fit this year. Milburn has played up forward a few times. He has held his own in a good team.

 

[King Elvis]

Victorian bias is the biggest cop out I've ever heard I reckon.

If Adam Simpson played for an interstate side, he'd be rated on the same level as he is now. The only difference would be everyone would say he'd actually be rated higher at a Victorian club.

The fact that the 'experts' always tip the Crows to be bottom 4 (and the Power top 4, for that matter), shows how little they actually know about the SA sides.

 

[AG]

Would be nice to see his spoils and defensive 50 marks to get a starting point as to where he compares with other defenders

He is a great mark and on numerous occasions jumps in front of the oncoming forward to stop an easy chest mark.

 

[smiddaz123]

The fact that the 'experts' always tip the Crows to be bottom 4 (and the Power top 4, for that matter), shows how little they actually know about the SA sides.

That's more under rating a team as a whole. And I still maintain that even though Adelaide are under rated, it isn't correlated with them being an interstate side. The Kangaroos have been similarly under rated in the past, even though they've been Victorian. Some experts just know little about sides in general, not specific clubs in certain states.

Some teams are under rated, some are over rated. Some players don't get given enough credit, some get given too much credit. I don't think being interstate or Victorian has as much of an effect as a lot of people seem to think.

Collingwood, for example, have a reputation of enhancing a players reputation. But someone like Scott Burns was never over rated, he was seen as a good solid player, who was important to his side. Do you think he'd have been rated differently at an interstate side?

 

[King Elvis]

Interesting one actually - because Scotty Burns was pretty highly rated back here.

As I said before, Presti is having a great season for you guys, but he's up against 3 guys who are either better than equal than him defensive, and absolutely shade him offensively; meaning the fact that he's being discussed as potentially in the side is a little baffling.

 

[smiddaz123]

Interesting one actually - because Scotty Burns was pretty highly rated back here.

As I said before, Presti is having a great season for you guys, but he's up against 3 guys who are either better than equal than him defensive, and absolutely shade him offensively; meaning the fact that he's being discussed as potentially in the side is a little baffling.

How is the bolded fair to Presti?

He has been better than all those guys defensively this season. He plays on the number 1 forward every week and has conceded the second least amount of goals (and Scarlett has missed a game or two, so him conceding one less goal than Presti is to be expected there).

Presti's offensive side may not be damaging, but I don't get why people consider it to be crap. he doesn't accumulate touches (it isn't his job) but when he gets the ball he never shanks the kick and he always chooses a good option. When he gets the ball he uses it perfectly well.

You've talked about interstate players being consistently under rated, well Presti plays for a high profile Victorian club, and has never been rated as highly as he should have been.

I'm sorry, but when a full back plays on the best forward so often and concedes the least amount of goals (per game) than any other full back does all this, and it is said to be baffling to ever consider him in the AA side is baffling in itself.

 

[wapower]

Put any smallish defender on the last line and they'd get killed.

Ridiculous comment. Surjan is consistently on the last line of defense and more often than not monsters his opponent one on one by either spoiling, smothering, tackling or winning the 50/50 possession. In my humble opinion, he has been the best small shutdown defender in the AFL this season. (I do watch more than just the Port Adelaide games in order to form my opinions).

Throughout this schizophrenic season of ours, you'll read/hear many a Port supporter state that no matter what happens in each game, at least we know "the Surj" won't let us down. I would imagine other quality small defenders are just as likely on the last line of defense.

Whilst I don't necessarily subscribe to the Victorian bias theory, it's highly unlikely that the masses will notice a player they don't have exposure to all the time or one who doesn't draw rave media coverage.

 

[Waspy79]

^ Why arent the masses exposed to these non-Victorian players? Just take a glance at the foxtel schedule and the time-slots in which teams play and you will have your answer. The fixture is biased, as is the tv schedule, and it favours the crowd-pulling clubs in Melbourne.

 

[AG]

I think everyone is going over the top with the Vic v Non Vic theory.

 

[Vacuous Space]

The selectors have a tendency to go with a disproportionate number of talls and the fill out the rest with the top rebounders. That might help Presti get a selection. I'm not sure how much weight the selectors put on the reverse Coleman though. I think they'll opt for Scarlett, provided he doesn't miss much time. The question is, will they put him at FB? If not, then it'll probably come down to Presti and Rutten. Given the selection history, there's a decent chance they'll name two FBs. Oddly though, a lot of the selected KPs didn't fair to well in the reverse Coleman.

08: Bock, Fisher, Harley, Hodge, Morris, Scarlett (Enright)
07: C. Brown, Egan, Glass, Milburn, MacLeod, Scarlett (Fletcher)
06: Bassett, Bolton, Bowden, Gilbee, Glass, McLeod
05: Bowden, Clement, Croad, Hodge, Rutten, Wirrpanda (Barry)
04: Barry, C. Cornes, C. Johnson, A. Jones, McPhee, Scarlett (Clement, Lappin)

As for Surjan, I'll be surprised if they even select a small defensive stopper. I don't think they get much notice unless they get a lot of the ball. They don't show up on the stat sheet either because so much of what they do is based on positional work rather than spoiling or marking. There are so few full time small forwards these days that they don't even get noticed for keeping opponents off the stat sheet since their opponent usually will rotate.

 

[Thommo 42]

Didak had a more adventurous outing compared to Johnson. It will be interesting to see whether Bock gets selected because I think he got charged for assault didn't he?

Really? All he did was jump in the passenger seat next to a drunk Heath Shaw

 

[AG]

Really? All he did was jump in the passenger seat next to a drunk Heath Shaw

Oh yeah, I kept thinking it was the Christopher Hudson incident last year. He should have made the team regardless.

 

[wapower]

As for Surjan, I'll be surprised if they even select a small defensive stopper. I don't think they get much notice unless they get a lot of the ball. They don't show up on the stat sheet either because so much of what they do is based on positional work rather than spoiling or marking. There are so few full time small forwards these days that they don't even get noticed for keeping opponents off the stat sheet since their opponent usually will rotate.

The post was directed more at smiddaz123 comment regarding small defenders on the last line of defense. Surj should be in the team after the season he has had, but I doubt he will for the very reasons you have outlined. He's only averaging 16 possessions, 4 marks and 3 tackles per game. I've got him at between 12-15 goals conceded by a direct opponent this season thus far. It would be handy to see Champion Data's stats to see how accurate/inaccurate that is.

 

[smiddaz123]

Yeh, I probably should've said that there would be some small defenders who could play on the last line. But my primary point was that is isn't a necessity if a small defender is to be effective. Saying Enright would struggle on the last line doesn't detract from him as a player, since his current role doesn't require him to do so. It was probably poorly worded on my part, and exaggerated. Guys like Surjan and Morris would easily be good enough in a one on one situation

 

[Vacuous Space]

The [Surjan] post was directed more at smiddaz123 comment regarding small defenders on the last line of defense.

I think you raise a fair point though. I'm one of those who think the team should be named in position. I don't think it's fair that you have two spots for starting rucks and none for small defensive stoppers. Small stoppers are important enough that every side has them. I'd love to see them get some credit. I think part of the point of the excercise is to move beyond recognising just the onballers and forwards.

It's tough to tell who the best small is. I watch a lot of footy, but even I couldn't tell you who each team's best small stopper is. I know the better known ones, but even a guy like Surjan has managed to escape my eye. Stats are (as I said before) completely useless for evaluation in this instance. The goals against stats aren't made public until CD releases the Prospectus next year. So while I'd like to have a kick-in guy and a stopper in the pockets, I end up just throwing up my hands because it's too hard and picking another rebounder.

The selectors have no excuse though. They've got game tapes and a whole world of stats that we don't. These guys should be getting some recognition.

 

[AG]

I think you raise a fair point though. I'm one of those who think the team should be named in position. I don't think it's fair that you have two spots for starting rucks and none for small defensive stoppers. Small stoppers are important enough that every side has them. I'd love to see them get some credit.

Morris got recognised last year and might make the team again next year. I don't think we have to recognise players based on size. Just pick 2 or 3 KP players and fill the other 3 spots with shorts/talls/rebounders.

 

[smiddaz123]

Small defenders always seem to have a spot though, just like ruckmen.

Guys like Morris and Milburn have got into the side consistently.

 

[wapower]

I think you raise a fair point though. I'm one of those who think the team should be named in position. I don't think it's fair that you have two spots for starting rucks and none for small defensive stoppers. Small stoppers are important enough that every side has them. I'd love to see them get some credit. I think part of the point of the excercise is to move beyond recognising just the onballers and forwards.

It's tough to tell who the best small is. I watch a lot of footy, but even I couldn't tell you who each team's best small stopper is. I know the better known ones, but even a guy like Surjan has managed to escape my eye. Stats are (as I said before) completely useless for evaluation in this instance. The goals against stats aren't made public until CD releases the Prospectus next year. So while I'd like to have a kick-in guy and a stopper in the pockets, I end up just throwing up my hands because it's too hard and picking another rebounder.

The selectors have no excuse though. They've got game tapes and a whole world of stats that we don't. These guys should be getting some recognition.

So he should though Vacuous Space. We've been sporadic as a side to say the least and positive player performances have rarely been broadcasted publicly regarding our club. I wouldn't have expected him to draw much attention in all honesty.

We haven't given AFL lovers much of a reason to watch us this season unfortunately.

 

[oblett]

mine to now

B: Edwards (Ade) Scarlett (Gee) Lake (WB)
HB: Swan (Coll) Fisher (STK) Drummond (BL)
C: Montagna (STK) Watson (ESS) Dal Santo (STK)
HF: Chapman (Geel) Reiwolt (STK) Porplyzia (ADE)
F: Johnson (Geel) Fevola (Car) Davis (Coll)
R: McIntosh (Kan) Ablett (Geel) Judd (Car)
I: Hayes (STK) Goodes (SYD) Didak (Coll) Brown (BL)

Voss Coach

 

[PIEd]

B - G Johncock / Scarlett / Morris
HB - C Enright / Bock / B Goddard
C - D Swan / C Judd (C) / A Goodes
HF - Didak / Riewolt / S Johnson
F - J Porpleizia / Fevola / L Davis
Foll - A Sandilands / G Ablett / L Hayes

Int - L Montagna / Presti / J Brown / M Boyd

Why is there any dispute about the CHB position? Bock is is clearly the best CHB in the game! Also, Nick Maxwell and Harry O'Brien deserve some love... obviously not AA yet, but they would be damn close!!!

Try and find a fault with this team.... I DARE YOU!!!

 

[Waspy79]

Your love for Adelaide players is mysterious - Porps and Johncock nowhere near selection - Bock close but no cigar.

 

[AG]

F - J Porpleizia / Fevola / L Davis
Try and find a fault with this team.... I DARE YOU!!!

It is spelt Porplyzia. Do you double dare me??