List Mgmt. 2011 National Draft

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2011 National Draft

Geelong BF Preview Thread

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When: November 24, 2011

Where: A wretched hive of scum and villainy (Western Sydney)

Geelong's Picks: 26, 48, 66, 84

Links

- AFL Draft Combine

- AFL Draft Order

- Official BF Phantom Draft (Trial Run)

- Potential Draftee Watch 2011

Preview:

The AFL should give Steven Wells a premiership medallion as well. - Leigh Matthews

There is no bigger vindication of the recruiting nous of Stephen Wells than Geelong's capture of a third flag in five years. Not content to follow the AFL model of boom-and-bust, Wells drafting in the previous premiership years of 2007 and 2009 was instrumental in creating a squad capable of challenging for and winning a flag in defiance of the statistical science of premiership windows. Now he will be looking to do it again, in draft compromised by the arrival of Greater Western Sydney.

Two retirements have been confirmed - Cameron Mooney and Marcus Drum. It seems almost certain that Darren Milburn will follow them and that Mark Blake will leave the club to seek opportunities elsewhere. Cameron Ling and Brad Ottens have both acknowledged they are contemplating hanging up the boots, although at this stage the odds seem against it. It thus seems likely that Geelong will go into the trade/draft period with four holes on the list to fill.

Reckon that there's three broad courses this period could take:

Scenario #1: Business As Usual

As Turbo said in the PDW thread, the defining characteristic of Stephen Wells as a recruiter is that he doesn't follow the herd. If spots are there on the list Wells will go hard in the draft regardless of whether or not is shallow or compromised. He's also a pretty hard marker of those already on the list: not many rookies make the cut onto the main list at Geelong.

So there's every chance that come November 24 - maybe after dishing a fringe player or two for some pick upgrades - Geelong will take four picks in the draft.

Scenario #2: Geelong Trades for a pick in the GWS Mini-Draft

Part of GWS compensation this year was to be able to pre-list 17yr old players - who would have been considered bottom-aged a few years ago, before draft eligibility changed - and then trade picks in a 'mini-draft' for these players to established clubs. The idea being that GWS could trade for more mature players and consequently be more competitive initially than the GC.

Most of the attention for this has been focused on young West Australian Jaeger O'Meara, who is generally tipped to go No 1. However mid-year Geelong was linked with Jake Stringer, a Bendigo native who broke his leg early in the season playing for the Pioneers. Stringer was a member of the AIS-AFL Academy squad and trained with Geelong for a week pre-season. The Cats have form on picking guys off the back of long term injuries - and a specific comparison comes in Travis Varcoe, who was bottom-aged when the Cats picked him in 2005 and had missed the entire 05 season with a foot injury.

It's still unclear just what sort of price range these kids will attract, because GWS has to trade four picks away over the next two trade/draft periods and so cannot hold clubs totally to ransom; and while it's generally the other Ablett compensation pick which is being spoken of as the centre of any deal, other picks or players could become involved.

Scenario #3 - Geelong go rookie crazy

This seems the most unlikely of the three, but it's possible. With rookies counting as picks under relaxed draft rules, Geelong could upgrade several and thus limit it's draft exposure to Picks #26 and #48. The likely candidates are Bathie, Simpkin, Weston and Walker.

Who are we likely to draft?

Everyone can tell that players like Jonathan Patton and Stephen Coniglio will be guns - but Geelong aren't going to get within cooee of them. The trick is to identify the group of players who are going to be roundabout Geelong's picks. Obviously there are sliders and bolters in every draft, but generally you can identify 5-10 players who are thereabouts and work from there.

There's other factors in play as well. Geelong's stated draft policy is to balance best available with needs, a reflection of our usual absence from the trade table. This year most would say our list is pretty well positioned but could use one or two more KPPs. But that was the general consensus last year as well - and Wells ignored the key position stock until the rookie draft. Conversely in 2008 there probably wasn't a pressing need for key position players after 06/07 but Wells drafted Brown and Gillies with our first two picks.

There's also the issue of origin: there are patterns in Wells drafting. If you look at it by Carnival team, 19 out of 47 players on our list came direct from Vic Country's catchment area, dwarfing the next nearest (Metro with 8 and SA with 6). But Country's looking like the weakest team in Div 1 at this stage and despite the preponderance of Country recruits, since 1999 Wells has spent more first rounders on players from interstate than Country. Wells also doesn't mind a successful club: the Falcons and the Cannons are heavily represented on our list and he's poached the likes of Menzel and Varcoe from Centrals in the SANFL. That's not to say we're guaranteed to pick three Country boys and a Cannon this year, but it's worth keeping in mind.

So a handful of suggestions - guys I saw play this year who I think are likely to be around our pick:

Sam Docherty (183/85): Gippy boy who played in Country's last two games, winning BOG against WA. Looks a typical modern halfback with excellent kicking skills and real dash.

Josh Waldhuter (183/83): another Centrals boy who played alongside one D. Menzel in the 18s a couple of years ago. Like Docherty seemed a typical modern half back at the Champs with a bit of dash and a thumping boot, but was also able to stand up in and break through tackles. Elsewhere is getting talked up for his contested ball work and hardness at the pill; could potentially be developed into an all-round midfielder.

Andrew Boseley (194/80): Hard to gauge his position in the draft. Like a lot of the KPPs seems very much a project type but had a really good game against Patton with Country crumbling around him. Wouldn't hurt that he's a Falcon.

Mitchell Grigg (181/85): Normally I'd say we wouldn't get close to him as he looks like a gun midfielder - just a natural footballer who is dominant on the inside but can also kick the ball well - but apparently there's a pretty serious question mark over his pace. Maybe someone should get in his ear and tell him to stack on a few kilos ala Bundy. Interesting to see what his DC results are.

Clay Smith (180/82): Probably an outside chance to slide to us but again just seems a very Geelong-type player. Super competitive in the contest and uses the ball well. On the smaller side but that could just increase the slide.

Also two other names (who I didn't see but should be mentioned):

Jed Bews (186/78): Played a few games for Geelong in the VFL and while we've yet to commit the word coming from his Dad on KRock has been cautiously optimistic. Shifter's wrap:

Athletic, versatile, reliable defender who is an effective, composed decision-maker. Eligible to go to Geelong under the father/son rule. From Leopold FC.

Jake Stringer (191/86): Player we've been linked to with GWS. Never seen him play, so here's an Emma Quayle article instead.

Finally, some other names you might see linked to Geelong in the next two months: Taylor Adams, Jackson Merrett, Brad Crouch (possibly smokey for GWS mini-draft), Brodie Mihocek and Jai Sheehan.
 

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Re: 2011 National Draft thread

Awesome preview!

Following the draft pretty keenly this year, recon a few lads from my local league are a shot.

In Wells we trust :thumbsu:
 
Re: 2011 National Draft thread

great preview except for the "wretched hive of scum and villainy" bit - completely unwarented, offensive and wrong. why spoil spoil such a good post with such a sh*t thing? petty and dumb. wake up to yourself.
 
Re: 2011 National Draft thread

great preview except for the "wretched hive of scum and villainy" bit - completely unwarented, offensive and wrong. why spoil spoil such a good post with such a sh*t thing? petty and dumb. wake up to yourself.
Not a Star Wars fan mate?
 
Re: 2011 National Draft thread

Great preview jester, good work as always :thumbsu:

I think we'll be looking at a combination of scenarios 1 and 3. Certainly as 09 showed, Wells isn't put off by others perception of a draft as weak, so I expect deep selections (which all of ours are other than our 1st rounder) to be used. But if Ling's retirement is true we're now up to 5 likely senior list spots to fill (Mooney Drum Milburn Ling Blake) so unless we take more than 4 picks at least one rookie will be elevated, and maybe more if we have more retirements or trades.

Talls look a likely focus although I thought that last year and Wells took four admittedly very good medium running types, so what do I know. With Mooney now gone and Ottens maybe only having 1 more and Pods being 30 and Scarlett saying next year will be his last you'd think we'd focus on talls, although having an eye for the best available player and slider types, which Wells never is.

All of your names listed are interesting ones. Docherty I'd be quite happy with and would slot in nicely opposite THuny on adjoining flanks. Waldhunter's attitude is fantastic just needs a tad more polish at times. I'd be very surprised if we get near Grigg, to me he's one of the top 3 kicks in this draft and recruiter's seem to value highly now, although there seems to be a lot of chatter about him sliding due to lack of pace and defensive work (although the latter I think you could improve on in an afl environment with good development). I'm very interested to see how he tests, if his sprint and agility stuff is down the charts maybe he will slide, which could potentially be a boon for us. Taylor Adams I would love, but doubt he'll slide that far either.

I'm finding it hard to predict 10 in the range of our first pick given it's so far down and it's hard to know exactly what GWS's drafting strategy will be, but anyway I'll have a go:
Michael Talia Jackson Paine Fraser McInness Sam Frost Andrew Boseley Jordan Lockyer Shane Kersten Brody Mihocek Julian Dobosz

Talia might not be available but the rest could be. I'd be looking at Paine, Boseley, Lockyer and Mihocek in that order.

I also notice a lot of players, particularly some of the talls, who I think will fall between our first and second picks, so it will be interesting to see how this affects our drafting strategy.

Given Wells fondness for players who can win their own ball and work both ways I can also see guys like Clay Smith, Adams, Wladhunter etc as ones on his radar and certainly players with a similar attitude + skillset if those specific three are out of reach for us.
 
Re: 2011 National Draft thread

Owing to the possible retirement of Cameron Ling, I think we should think carefully about the type of players that gave us great on field success of recent times.
Cam is 189/ 93 kilos, with that size and weight he could effectively stop and block the likes of Dane Swan, I believe we need to recruit a power mid/utilty/onballer, someone of similar build, to takeup that central strong man role.

Maybe a Ben Darrou or a Nic O'Brien both big strong types, carnival reps with good tackle stats.
Cam Ling was a Full Forward then became the AFL's best tagger, so I'd like to think we'd look to the future and fill the void if and when Linger retires.

A decent sized defender is pretty important at the moment as well, don't think Gillies can make the big step.

Excellent work Jester!
 
depending on how many retirements are to come, with a weak draft this year and a stronger pool next year, is it possible that we upgrade a couple of rookies on one-year contracts simply as fodder we can de-list next year?

(i know this is partly covered by scenario #3)_
 
Re: 2011 National Draft thread

Owing to the possible retirement of Cameron Ling, I think we should think carefully about the type of players that gave us great on field success of recent times.
Cam is 189/ 93 kilos, with that size and weight he could effectively stop and block the likes of Dane Swan, I believe we need to recruit a power mid/utilty/onballer, someone of similar build, to takeup that central strong man role.

Maybe a Ben Darrou or a Nic O'Brien both big strong types, carnival reps with good tackle stats.
Cam Ling was a Full Forward then became the AFL's best tagger, so I'd like to think we'd look to the future and fill the void if and when Linger retires.

A decent sized defender is pretty important at the moment as well, don't think Gillies can make the big step.

Excellent work Jester!


I wonder whether the apparent interest in Stringer is to get a big bodied mid into our club? A feature of our team over the past few years has been that we have had quite tall mids in Ling, Corey and even Bartel. All are elite contested marks for their size. It appears to be a trait that Wells seeks out.
 
Re: 2011 National Draft thread

Owing to the possible retirement of Cameron Ling, I think we should think carefully about the type of players that gave us great on field success of recent times.
Cam is 189/ 93 kilos, with that size and weight he could effectively stop and block the likes of Dane Swan, I believe we need to recruit a power mid/utilty/onballer, someone of similar build, to takeup that central strong man role.

Maybe a Ben Darrou or a Nic O'Brien both big strong types, carnival reps with good tackle stats.
Cam Ling was a Full Forward then became the AFL's best tagger, so I'd like to think we'd look to the future and fill the void if and when Linger retires.

A decent sized defender is pretty important at the moment as well, don't think Gillies can make the big step.

Excellent work Jester!

We have Guthrie - who played as a tagger.
We could also groom Schroder for that role. Not sure what his fitness levels are like but has the build IMO
 
Re: 2011 National Draft thread

We have Guthrie - who played as a tagger.
We could also groom Schroder for that role. Not sure what his fitness levels are like but has the build IMO


Neither have the imposing size, IMO, just not big enough! to cover the loss of Rooke and now Ling, they gotta be around 190cm with strong bodies., I just hope we do something about it!

Jake Stringer has the right size but is more the football athlete IMO, probably not the same type as Ling and Rooke have been with the heavy bodies around contests.

Would have thought Guthrie as more a half back medium/small defender and Schroder looks like a chance as a fwd/ mid, has been kicking a few goals in the 2's.
 

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Re: 2011 National Draft thread

We have Guthrie - who played as a tagger.
We could also groom Schroder for that role. Not sure what his fitness levels are like but has the build IMO

Reckon if Hogan's going to make it at AFL level tagging is his role, think about it, best endurance runner at the club, also quick so can keep up with anyone, wins a stack of inside ball so that's where you want him, decision making can sometimes be suspect in space so this type of role would play to his strengths vs his weaknesses. Needs to keep building his strength in the gym but you'd think they'll at least trial him in it over summer and if he's got a future that might be where it's at.

Guthrie is very highly rated and did good tagging jobs at u18 level, and they've given Taylor Hunt some defensive type jobs already and he's got a good skillset for it with his pace and tackling ability.

Reckon it'll end up being one of the 3 you'd think.
 
depending on how many retirements are to come, with a weak draft this year and a stronger pool next year, is it possible that we upgrade a couple of rookies on one-year contracts simply as fodder we can de-list next year?

(i know this is partly covered by scenario #3)_

Yep, particularly in Simpkin's case that'd be the thinking, get him on the senior list so he has the chance to play round 1, which he didn't get this year, so if he's good enough the door is now open, and if he has a year like he did this year he'll get in, if he has a poor year, gives us a senior list spot for a stronger draft. Win-win.
 
Any chance we can get hayden crouzier?
Not unless he's shown up at DC dramatically overweight or revealed that he's a Satanist or something similar.
 
Saw Michael Bussey talking to Patton on AFL feed today, he's a real big boy, key sized defender type, no problems.
 
Where did you get Bews' sprint time from? Sub 3 secs is really what you would hope for and expect for a small runner.

Go to the combine page and look at the twitter stuff they post, I saw it in there somewhere.

Saw Michael Bussey talking to Patton on AFL feed today, he's a real big boy, key sized defender type, no problems.

He is, performances by and large this year have underwhelmed me though.

In other news, here's the combine wrap for day 2:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/124682/default.aspx

I doubt I'll read much into Buckley tackling to Boseley, with Reid and Brown, plus Keefe, and Hartley coming onto the rookie list I would have thought the Pies need a key forward way more than they need a key defender.

Someone posted over on the drafts board than Quayle tweeted that Grigg ran 3.4 for the 20m :eek: If so he might well slide to 26 after all :eek: Depends what his agility and timetrial is like I suppose.

Of the good performances in the sprint, I reckon Woodward may be one Wells looks at, real win his own ball type which Wells likes. Nelson too although he's a bit small.

I'm keen on this bloke
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-to-be-a-bulldog/story-fn69a32t-1226159645289
but I doubt he'll get to 26.
 
I agree with the above about going for rookies instead of late draft picks to avoid the 2 year contract and be ready to zero in on the 2012 draft. We may also be better to use the Preseason draft (or whatever they call it these days - but the one GC used to pick up NAblett last year) rather than late picks. A late pick will require a 2 year contract and a preseason draftee only a 1 year contract. We should be looking at at least 8 picks in 2012. Think of 2012 as 2001 all over again.
 
I agree with the above about going for rookies instead of late draft picks to avoid the 2 year contract and be ready to zero in on the 2012 draft. We may also be better to use the Preseason draft (or whatever they call it these days - but the one GC used to pick up NAblett last year) rather than late picks. A late pick will require a 2 year contract and a preseason draftee only a 1 year contract. We should be looking at at least 8 picks in 2012. Think of 2012 as 2001 all over again.

Agree with the general idea of what you're saying although 8 picks next year is a bit of a stretch as we won't have as many inside 30 as we did in 01. Half a dozen picks we might take maybe, but 8 I doubt. But yes, we'll definitely take more picks next year than this year though and wells will already be planning for that.

On the PSD, if we have any more retirements every chance we'll pass our last pick for the PSD. We don't lose much as that pick is likely to be the last pick in the draft anyway so most of the kids we'd be likely to want there will still be around in the PSD, but it also gives us time to trawl through the delisted to see what's there, and also get some guys in training (like we did with walker last year) but this time take one of them as the last spot on the senior list via the PSD. Keep in mind that PSD contracts aren't necessarily one year though, as a lot of players set their own contract terms which the club that takes them must meet. Although yes, you could find a player in the PSD that you could get on a 1 year contract if you wanted, although I don't think it's that relevant as I doubt we'd be delisting any draftee after 12 months anyway.

Although if no one else bids for Bews we might be content to take him as our last pick, say 84, and bypass the PSD.

Speaking of which, Emma's done a piece on Jed today:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/son-of-a-gun-takes-a-sneak-peek-20111005-1l9mf.html

Interesting read.
 
Possible tall backs? : a. Bosesley, m.mihocek, h.schade.
We should try to get jayden pitt, 189cm, 70kg, utility. Jeremy taylor from GCS, utility, mostly plays back, average 17 disposals over 2 games, hit with injury and thats why he couldn't play much.
 
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