2012 draft

[Riskingheadandshin]

Calling Martin_Riewoldt, Tigerbob, tigs2010 (and anyone else in the know!)
Is O'Rourke any chance at #9 or is he "locked and loaded" at the Dogs as Tanned Terry would say?
He looks a gem from what I've seen/read.

 

[MR]

Calling Martin_Riewoldt, Tigerbob, tigs2010 (and anyone else in the know!)
Is O'Rourke any chance at #9 or is he "locked and loaded" at the Dogs as Tanned Terry would say?
He looks a gem from what I've seen/read.

I've heard so many different things its ridiculous.

GWS apparently will take him with 3, no, WBD will take him at 6, no Carlton have him at 11!

Honestly, this year has been so strange. I don't really know who to listen to anymore. My source has been unusually quiet this year and I don't think anyone really knows what's going on other than the inner sanctum. They have been very secretive. I would love O'Rourke though, he is 7th on my most wanted list. (Behind Whitfield, Grundy, Menzel, Toumpas, Vlastuin and Macrae)

 

[Toadvine]

Thinking back to an article Matt Rendell wrote for Inside Footy. He was writing after the trade period about what recruiters would be doing and how they would approach the draft. He said most adopted the best available policy when selecting at the draft and he was no different.

He wrote about how he heard through the grape vine that Talia would be available and how he hadn't even considered that thinking there was no way he'd get through. He said after some last minute interviews and research he made up his mind that he was the one.

He said even though they had Bock who had just recently been made AA and recently drafted Phil Davis with a first rounder the year before, they had Rutten and Scott Stevens but it didn't matter they were taking him.

Then Bock left, Davis left, Stevens retired and all of a sudden his recruiting became vital.

I thought this experience could serve as a lesson, I know we cant predict the future and no one would have thought the Crows would lose 2 key defenders in two years to expansion clubs, but what if in 2014 Maric goes down with an ACL?.... or maybe the groin issues which stopped him from being able to play against GC and made him not be able to train for the rest of the year and only play take hold of him?

Doesn't matter though I suppose, We'll have a gun mid which is pretty good consolation. I've pretty much resigned to the fact now that we won't take him but I hope FJ can surprise me.

 

[THE_GUN]

I would be absolutely devastated if we took Corr at 9.

A) He's not talented enough to be a top 10 pick.
B) Wouldn't be in our best 5 KPDs for atleast 3-4 years
C) If we were to even take a KPD, would much rather Plowman or Clurey.
D) Much better talent available.

I just really hope Richmond don't screw this up.

Corr looks like he will be on his way to Doggies #22. Looks like 3 players that we are looking at at #9 are
Vlastuin,Garner,Lonergan unless 1 of the higher rated fall to our selection. Also Atkins at #32/#34

 

[Frank Grimes]

Another phantom to have a read of, be wary it's extremely long.

http://www.footytragic.com/blog/2012-post-season/kristians-2012-phantom-draft/

So Grundy, Vlastuin and Wines all availiable at our pick? I wish that would be the case but I doubt it. There is no way Wines would make to us. Though I would be very happy with any of those three.

 

[_RT_]

1. Whitfield - the consensus pick and just adds to the Giants top line midfield talent.
2. Grundy - for all the talk about GWS taking Tippett, I just don't see it happening and the Giants should take the best ruckman in the draft second up much to the relief of a number of posters on here.
3. Plowman - having got the best midfielder available and best ruck as well, I can see the Giants taking the best KPP available as well to round out the first 3 picks.
4. Wines - having already secured Viney the Dees get to add to their midfield brigade by taking e beast that is Ollie Wines. Wines Viney and Jones on the inside feeding it out to the likes of Trengove makes their midfield more competitive.
5 & 6. Stringer and O'Rourke - Stringer gives the Dogs a game winner in the Pavlich mould, while O'Rourke gives them the outside class they need badly.
7. Toumpas - right about now Port will be pinching themselves to make sure they aren't dreaming. Having Toumpas fall into their laps is the stuff of dreams. For those who aren't aware this kid has been looked upon as a top 3 certainty all year.
8. Jaksch - Lions have made it pretty clear that they need/want KPP help, Jaksch gives them that and could allow Merrett to spend more time forward.
9. Vlastuin - as many would know I'm a fan of this kid, but that's not why I have him here. The truth is Vlastuin should be taken around this stage of draft. He is the next Luke Hodge, a general down back or a game changer through the midfield. In years to come we will look back on this and say we did well with this pick.
10. Daniher - Dons are laughing getting a kid who would be number one at ten.
11. Menzel - I know that the talk is top 3 for this kid but I reckon that's all bluff. I reckon he slides and goes about here to Carlton. Blues will be pleased to get him as this kid has the ability to win games off his own boot.
12. Mayes - once again the Giants get to add another classy kid to their group.
13. Garner - the kid talked about as a Fyfe clone lands at the Suns.
14. Macrae - lot of hype around this kid after his performance in the TAC GF saw some suggest he could go top 10, me I don't see it and think here is about right. Not that the Giants will be fussed.
15. Kennedy - with Boomer nearing the end the Roos need a replacement and well this kid is that.
16. Simpson - Cats seem to have a habit of picking up kids that aren't talked about much and then turning them into stars. Simpson could be another one of those picks.
17. Garlett - plenty are suggesting that the Dockers take a tall here, but Garlett being on the board seems to fit more IMO, especially when they went out and got Pearce to add some speed to their lineup.
18 & 19. Lonergan & Hrovat - Pies add a couple of young midfielders who can develop for a couple of years before they will be asked to step up.
20. Wood - Crows luckily get their pick and take Wood to replace Tippett.
21. Clurey - having taken a couple of midfielders earlier the Pies get Clurey to give them more KPP depth.
22. O'Brien - the Dogs get a KPF to give their forward line a target. Will need to hit the gym though before he is ready.
23. Colquhoun - with Shaw and Mattner getting on this kid will be an ideal replacement.

That is my reasoning first round.

 

[Azzleberry]

Hopefully with our first pick, FJ and co just have a piece of paper with who they rate as the top 10 players in the draft and as they get called out he crosses them off.
Cant see Melbourne passing on Wines at 4 with the close bonds between him and viney and also can't see Port passing on Grundy if he gets to them given their dire ruck stocks and that he is best available and a local lad. So I see it panning out below:
1- Whitfield GWS
2 - Toumpas GWS
3- Plowman GWS
4- Wines MELB
5- O'Rourke WB
6- Menzel WB
7-Grundy PORT
8- Jacksch BRIS
9- Macrae, Mayes, Stringer, Vlastuin
Only team I'd worry about is brassy as they are also keen on Macrae from reports, however, a lot of talent to choose from here!

 

[UpTheGuts]

Wines to slide I reckon.
Toumpas to Dees

 

[Tigerbob]

I've heard so many different things its ridiculous.

GWS apparently will take him with 3, no, WBD will take him at 6, no Carlton have him at 11!

Honestly, this year has been so strange. I don't really know who to listen to anymore. My source has been unusually quiet this year and I don't think anyone really knows what's going on other than the inner sanctum. They have been very secretive. I would love O'Rourke though, he is 7th on my most wanted list. (Behind Whitfield, Grundy, Menzel, Toumpas, Vlastuin and Macrae)

What he said!

 

[Tigerbob]

Thinking back to an article Matt Rendell wrote for Inside Footy. He was writing after the trade period about what recruiters would be doing and how they would approach the draft. He said most adopted the best available policy when selecting at the draft and he was no different.

He wrote about how he heard through the grape vine that Talia would be available and how he hadn't even considered that thinking there was no way he'd get through. He said after some last minute interviews and research he made up his mind that he was the one.

He said even though they had Bock who had just recently been made AA and recently drafted Phil Davis with a first rounder the year before, they had Rutten and Scott Stevens but it didn't matter they were taking him.

Then Bock left, Davis left, Stevens retired and all of a sudden his recruiting became vital.

I thought this experience could serve as a lesson, I know we cant predict the future and no one would have thought the Crows would lose 2 key defenders in two years to expansion clubs, but what if in 2014 Maric goes down with an ACL?.... or maybe the groin issues which stopped him from being able to play against GC and made him not be able to train for the rest of the year and only play take hold of him?

Doesn't matter though I suppose, We'll have a gun mid which is pretty good consolation. I've pretty much resigned to the fact now that we won't take him but I hope FJ can surprise me.

Well said. Any early pick is about getting as good a player into your club as possible. The more stars you have generally the better you will be.

Needs basis for pick 9 is dangerous. If that's what they are doing.

I'm stunned Grundy even gets to 7. A lot of clubs will regret that.

 

[Tigerbob]

i am not anti Grundy,i am anti a ruckman and pro a genuine inside/outside midfielder

At pick 9 you want positional picks? Not best available?

 

[Frank Grimes]

Cant see Melbourne passing on Wines at 4 with the close bonds between him and viney and also can't see Port passing on Grundy if he gets to them given their dire ruck stocks and that he is best available and a local lad.

Wines is probably worth pick 4. But their recruiting department hasn't improved since the last few years if their reasoning is "he's a friend of Vineys".

As far as Port goes they are in a dire need of everything.

 

[Frank Grimes]

At pick 9 you want positional picks? Not best available?

I think people are hesitent because tall players are still developing at the age of 18 and are an unknown quantity until they are further developed. They are also probably aware that the reason a Ruckman in the juniors will dominate is because of their size but when in the AFL they are playing against Ruckmen with 4-6 pre seasons in them and will struggle.

If our recruiting department is good enough I think they will figure out if an 18 year old ruckman will be able to put on bulk and not lose their athletism.

The simple fact is a good Ruckman is hard to find and Grundy is about as a small risk as you are going to get for recruiting a Ruckman. If he's availiable and we don't pick him up I'm almost certain we will be kicking ourselves in 4 years time when he's just the player we need and can't lure a ready made Ruckman to our list without paying substansial overs in a trade.

Though free agency may help our cause the planets will have to align for a quality Ruckman from another club to to come to us. All clubs know the importance of a good Ruckman and will do whatever it takes to keep them there. Getting Ivan has been a steal, but it's rare to find such bargains.

I just don't want to be in a scenario in five years time where we are relying on Graham and Browne clones again.

 

[blaisee]

At pick 9 you want positional picks? Not best available?

anything but a ruckman because

They are high risk
impossible to pick as 18 yr olds
and there is only room for one of themon the ground

The same reasons why GWS wont draft them early

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

anything but a ruckman because

They are high risk
impossible to pick as 18 yr olds
and there is only room for one of themon the ground

The same reasons why GWS wont draft them early

From all reports...Grundy is not just a Ruckman...but a very good player and a Ruckman...

 

[blaisee]

I hav really tried to explain myself a few times in this thread and have failed so I will just give it a rest.

Not saying I am right by any stretch, but thats my opinion.

 

[Toadvine]

I wonder if we would still be having this difference of opinion if Grundy was a CHF?

 

[Wacky Tiger]

I wonder if we would still be having this difference of opinion if Grundy was a CHF?

Joe Daniher regarded as the pick of the draft. Similar size. Ones a ruck the other is a CHF although to be fair Daniher is a gun who's been playing since he was a young fella.

 

[THE_GUN]

Joe Daniher regarded as the pick of the draft. Similar size. Ones a ruck the other is a CHF although to be fair Daniher is a gun who's been playing since he was a young fella.

I Kind of remember similar things about a Scott Gumbleton

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Brad Ottens says hi...

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I am not sure I would want Vlastuin at 9. Why? Well look many of the best inside midfielders - Mitchell, Kennedy, (Foley & Tuck for us) etc. Hardly any come form a high draft pick. These hard workers come from later picks as they are the blue collar guys. The more dynamic types are picked up early as it is harder to find the talent that will make them dynamic at AFL level. In some ways they are a little more hit and miss. To me a Ben Kennedy or a Dayle Garlett or a Josh Simpson would potentially be a greater weapon for us than a dedicated foot soldier who would be a safer bet but without the upside.

There in is the dilemma. X factor in spades but potentially flawed by being inconsistent or a little dull and boring but with more consistency.

This is where you must back your development people. If you have confidence in them then you must select the X factor guy and hope they can develop the consistency that will make them a star. If you don't have the confidence then you probably take the safer but ultimately more boring bet.

I know what I as a spectator and member would want. Someone that down the track I can say "I was around when this guy played for the tigers and you should have seen him, he was unbelievable..."
Thankfully I can remember Maurice Rioli well. Young Cotchin is now forcing his way down that path. Hopefully Martin too. Guys like Ellis are great but we already have enough of them....

 

[Stylo]

I am not sure I would want Vlastuin at 9. Why? Well look many of the best inside midfielders - Mitchell, Kennedy, (Foley & Tuck for us) etc. Hardly any come form a high draft pick. These hard workers come from later picks as they are the blue collar guys. The more dynamic types are picked up early as it is harder to find the talent that will make them dynamic at AFL level. In some ways they are a little more hit and miss. To me a Ben Kennedy or a Dayle Garlett or a Josh Simpson would potentially be a greater weapon for us than a dedicated foot soldier who would be a safer bet but without the upside.

I'm sorry dude but I cannot understand this reasoning. For every Mitchell, Kennedy, Tuck there are 150 Daniel Jacksons and who's to know which you'll end up with? Using that logic you might as well only pick rucks as rookies because nearly all of the senior rucks in the league were rookies to begin with.

Taking Vlastuin means that we know exactly what we're ending up with. AT WORST a good player, at best an elite one. It's like playing the odds, Vlas has a strong chance of becoming the exact type of midfielder we need, where a mid taken mid to late draft has a much, much slimmer chance of doing so.

Same goes for Grundy. It's all about narrowing the odds

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I'm sorry dude but I cannot understand this reasoning. For every Mitchell, Kennedy, Tuck there are 150 Daniel Jacksons and who's to know which you'll end up with? Using that logic you might as well only pick rucks as rookies because nearly all of the senior rucks in the league were rookies to begin with.

Taking Vlastuin means that we know exactly what we're ending up with. AT WORST a good player, at best an elite one. It's like playing the odds, Vlas has a strong chance of becoming the exact type of midfielder we need, where a mid taken mid to late draft has a much, much slimmer chance of doing so.

Same goes for Grundy. It's all about narrowing the odds

Well I have to disagree. Sometimes you have to back your recruiters. Pick 32 and 34 are hardly late draft picks. If you have good recruiters you will pick a good inside mid at that point.

Grundy is a top 3 choice. Of course if he drops we should take him. It would be like Melbourne passing up on Natanui. Vlastuin polarises opinion. Yes he is a good honest player who will always give a contest. A bit like Ellis. But Ellis was pick 15 not 9. A top ten pick should have game changing characteristics. That is what I'm saying.

 

[Stylo]

Who the deuce is this McGenniss chap Quayle has us linked to? Never heard of him.

 

[Tigerbob]

I hav really tried to explain myself a few times in this thread and have failed so I will just give it a rest.

Not saying I am right by any stretch, but thats my opinion.

Hey mate, wasn't having a go, just wanted to test reasoning of people's thoughts.

I will disagree with your assessment of ruckman and Grundy and would just say you make a call as you see it not have general rules.

Imagine if WCE had that general rule and didn't select Natanui? I mean sometimes you get players and you just know. Sometimes there are cases you need to look at despite having your beliefs.

Grundy for me is that type of player. Of he were to drop you can't possibly select some names mentioned in front of him. You back your development too. A player has that many tools of elite potential, you recruit for the future.

My evaluation of Grundy is he is the most talented ruck choice in sometime. Hos attitude, character, willingness to learn and work hard makes him the complete package.

This is just my opinion. I don't mean to downgrade anyone's opinion on here as I don't see myself as always right so I apologise if I came across that way.