2014 AFL Hall of Fame inductees

[mottrain]

Sigh.

He kicked 80 odd goals and captained his team to the flag, wtf more can one do?

Sigh.

He kicked 80 odd goals and captained his team to the flag, wtf more can one do?

Still doesn't mean he was the best CHF.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Still doesn't mean he was the best CHF.

How old are you seriously?

He was the best CHF since Carey.

Or are you a Geelong fan that thinks football started in 2007.

4 All Australians at CHF, says he was.

 

[ManWithNoName]

How old are you seriously?

He was the best CHF since Carey.

Or are you a Geelong fan that thinks football started in 2007.

I'd have Roo ahead of Tredrea, but Tredrea is absolutely worthy of his spot.

 

[I am Jack]

And that's why Tony Lockett and Nathan Buckley were shit players......

I don't see why people need to keep bringing up team successes to try and denigrate some great players' individual achievements. Is it jealousy? Tall poppy syndrome?

No, it is reality. Players are ultimately measured by the significance they played in team success.
Clubs and fans appreciate individual efforts, but even more so it if equates to premierships.

Was Buckley better than Hird or Voss? No, absolutely not, why? Because he could not lead his side to win a flag - Voss did so 3 times.
Leadership is an important characteristic in evaluating champion players. That is why the King still reigns supreme.

 

[100action]

Haha a 6 time AA, 3 BnF and 364 odd gamer doesnt deserve to get in.

Apply a filter like that on all HoF'ers and there would probably be like 20 players left.

 

[Jewbacca]

I'm actually staggered at this one. WOW.

I went a bit early with that one, happy to admit i'm wrong. While i do think they're a bit loose with who gets in at times Johnson does belong.

 

[SterlingArcher]

I'd have Roo ahead of Tredrea, but Tredrea is absolutely worthy of his spot.

I'd agree, I'd have the 2000 CHF's as Riewoldt > Tredrea > Pav, but all are deserved. Pav not stacking up to Roo or Tredrea does not mean he is not worthy.

 

[ManWithNoName]

I'd agree, I'd have the 2000 CHF's as Riewoldt > Tredrea > Pav, but all are deserved. Pav not stacking up to Roo or Tredrea does not mean he is not worthy.

Pav doesn't stack up purely because he's spent part of his career playing in every other bloody position. He didn't dominate CHF long enough because he was off dominating the midfield.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Proposition: If Pav captains Freo to a flag is he Legend status worthy?

I say yes.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

So much bullshit in here.
Obviously I seen a lot of Richo, he was a sensational player. Best contested mark I've seen sometimes it looked as though the ball would burst when he grabbed it. Ridiculous courage also.
Would have been unbelievable at a good team.
Treadrea was so good there for about a five year period that no team could stop him. People forget.
Brad Johnson amazed me. I remember when he started he was a winger who got knocked out seemingly every week, and thought geez he's a nice little player.
Became a gun, play anywhere. Courage by the truck loads , good grab, good kick, just a fantastic bloody footballer.
The kouta knockers are kidding themselves he was a magnificent player.
I agree with the theory that once you've retired blokes playing now go straight past you in peoples minds.
Everyone waxes lyrical about A Nat Fyfe, go and watch some of Kouta and then speak to me.
Seriously.
And McLeod,well.... I still have trouble deciding who the best player I've seen is Carey or Mcleod.

 

[TIGER DAVE]

Kouta was a better player than Richo, I'd agree. But due to injury, he didn't get enough game time and since he's left he's done nothing in the AFL sphere that I'm aware of, unlike Richo.

It's your opinion on who was a better player, but may I correct you re your assertion on kouta not getting enough game time re injury. And I'm not sure what you mean by Koota not doing anything in the AFL sphere and Richo being on TV has to do with anything. Are you saying because Richo is a much loved TV presenter he jumped to the front of the line?

Koota played 278 game in a 15 years and Richo played 282 in 16

Richo had 27.3 on the board early in 1995 when Rod Carter pushed him into the SCG fence to tear his knee and end his year.. The year after ( we all know how long it takes to get back from a knee) richo kicked 91 goals

in 2000 Richo played 3 games only due to a near career ending foot injury ( ever hear of max rooke) he come back in 2001 played 22 games took 182 mark ( 78 contested, over 3 a game ) kicked 59 goals to make finals for the only time in his career. Poor bastard !!

And I know stats can be misleading and I wont talk about his 800 goals. So lets talk about contested marks. Agree that this is not a cheap stat like some others. So who out of these players has the best average contested marks for their whole career?.....Carey,T Cloke, Pav, N Roo, Tredrea, Lloyd ?
And not by a small margin.. itssssssssssssss Richo... 2.77 per game in a crap team with 3 defenders hanging off him.. next best 2.2...that's like 25% more

In no way am I saying Richo is up there with Carey or even LLoyd, but some people remember Richo as a bit of a clown that played in a crap team for years, and dismiss the fact that he is 11th on the all time leading afl goal kickers, was one of the best contested marks ever, could run all day and nearly won the Charlie playing as a 196 wingman, had numerous injuries and still got out on the park, gave the loooooooooooooong time suffering tiger fans a reason to go to the footy etc etc

 

[Reginald Perrin]

It's your opinion on who was a better player, but may I correct you re your assertion on kouta not getting enough game time re injury. And I'm not sure what you mean by Koota not doing anything in the AFL sphere and Richo being on TV has to do with anything. Are you saying because Richo is a much loved TV presenter he jumped to the front of the line?

Koota played 278 game in a 15 years and Richo played 282 in 16

Richo had 27.3 on the board early in 1995 when Rod Carter pushed him into the SCG fence to tear his knee and end his year.. The year after ( we all know how long it takes to get back from a knee) richo kicked 91 goals

in 2000 Richo played 3 games only due to a near career ending foot injury ( ever hear of max rooke) he come back in 2001 played 22 games took 182 mark ( 78 contested, over 3 a game ) kicked 59 goals to make finals for the only time in his career. Poor bastard !!

And I know stats can be misleading and I wont talk about his 800 goals. So lets talk about contested marks. Agree that this is not a cheap stat like some others. So who out of these players has the best average contested marks for their whole career?.....Carey,T Cloke, Pav, N Roo, Tredrea, Lloyd ?
And not by a small margin.. itssssssssssssss Richo... 2.77 per game in a crap team with 3 defenders hanging off him.. next best 2.2...that's like 25% more

In no way am I saying Richo is up there with Carey or even LLoyd, but some people remember Richo as a bit of a clown that played in a crap team for years, and dismiss the fact that he is 11th on the all time leading afl goal kickers, was one of the best contested marks ever, could run all day and nearly won the Charlie playing as a 196 wingman, had numerous injuries and still got out on the park, gave the loooooooooooooong time suffering tiger fans a reason to go to the footy etc etc

I've actually been reflecting on what I said about Kouta originally, because yes, he has played a lot of games. I guess what I was meaning to say was we didn't get to see enough games at what he was capable of pre-injury. Kouta was a very special player and could have been one of the greats of the game. His best is better than Richo's best, but as I already said above, Richo is more deserving of his spot. Mainly because of the length of time he was able to produce at his potential and yes, a little bit for his media work. There wouldn't be any media people in the HoF if it wasn't recognised as a contribution to the game.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Sure each time they do an induction, 2 could be from the recent batch, but induct another one each from say 50's, 60's & 70's.

Footy WAS played before the 1950s you know.

 

[masai]

Footy WAS played before the 1950s you know.

Yes, but you could see what I was getting at ?.

Too many players are getting inducted from the 00's, have a good look at players over the past 100 years.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Of qualify for the HALL OF FAME.


Johnson
Another iffy one, for mine. Was never really top shelf, always consistently lingering below the real elite players in the comp. Perhaps he's been included for being consistently just below elite for longer than anyone else?

The naivety Johnson was never top shelf?? 74 goals, 20 touches a game and All Australian Captain in 2006 was "below elite." If he did that at another club people would still talk about it

And those who think Tredrea is lucky are kidding themselves. Dominant player, absolute champion

 

[masai]

Proposition: If Pav captains Freo to a flag is he Legend status worthy?

I say yes.

Hall of Fame = yes.

Legend = even with flag, no.

 

[Ian Dunross]

So he's no better than Jobe who has a Brownlow and a couple of AA reps after being a plodder for seven or so years?

Fair enough.

I think you just proved Kouta's critics right with this post. If Jobe keeps playing like this year for the rest of his career and gets in there'd be plenty of criticism.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Kouta is more deserving than the other three you mentioned. Especially Tredrea.

What a joke. You know nothing of football if you think this.

 

[Watson_my_mind]

I think you just proved Kouta's critics right with this post. If Jobe keeps playing like this year for the rest of his career and gets in there'd be plenty of criticism.

Do you think Jobe is having a bad year?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Proposition: If Pav captains Freo to a flag is he Legend status worthy?

I say yes.

Not legend status, no. He's been a champion player over a very long period of time, but he's never really been among the top couple of players in the league. He doesn't have that legend aura about him.

Ablett Jr is a lock for legend status. I don't think there is another clear cut lock from current or recent players. Goodes and Judd would be next you'd imagine, but they are certainly no locks. Cox and Scarlett are both a shout because they have genuine claims to being the best ever in their position, but even they probably aren't going to make it.

It's weird, because go back a decade and you have Carey, Hird, Voss, Ricciuto, Buckley, Dunstall, Silvangi and probably a few more who i'm forgetting who you'd assume will eventually be elevated to legend status. We're just going through a lean patch with regards to potential legends right now.

 

[4thchicken]

I'm only 19 and haven't even been following footy with any real interest all my life, so I never seen much of these guys or appreciated what I did see of them.

But without trying to add fuel to this fire, could people liken these guys to current players if possible? (Obviously not an exact match because they're HoF and current players are mid-career, but as best you can please?)

Because I've always known Kouta to be a gun, just because it's one of things. I don't need to see Carey play to know he was a gun, same Matthews. Sure I could learn a lot and I would probably enjoy/benefit from doing so but I'd rather not to be honest. Because at the moment I'm just going off reputation and stats, which we all know don't tell the whole story. From my understanding Kouta was a great player, had a couple excellent years, but was mostly good/great?

On kouta - the following might help.

theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/06/1049567566185.html

Leigh Matthews, adjudged the best footballer of the 20th century, has picked his dream team, and Anthony Koutoufides - or Kouta and 21 clones of him - fills all 18 on-field positions and the four on the bench.

Matthews was praising Brisbane captain Michael Voss on Saturday night and was asked: "If you could clone a footballer, is Voss as close as you could get to the perfect model?"

"No, you'd clone Anthony Koutoufides," Matthews said. "He's the most talented player at his best I've seen, at his best. He has ups and downs, we know. But if he's on, he's 6.4, he wins stoppages, so if you're going to clone somebody, I reckon 22 Koutas would be a pretty tough team to beat."

Also http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/w...mbers-on-his-own/story-e6frf9if-1111114083207 - A 2007 article describing kouta's last quarter against the bombers in 1999.

As Kouta ran back to the centre, Gerard Healy's commentary was priceless. "What a match-winner he is . . . can he do the unbelievable and pull a final out of the bag for the Blue baggers."

Has Healy ever been so prophetic?

At that stage Kouta had had 19 touches and six marks. He would finish with 29 and 12 and two goals. He took seven contested marks. If he was in Supercoach, he would have got 218 points, 127 in the last quarter.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Do you think Jobe is having a bad year?

I think he's having a good year.

IMO he's had two elite years - 2012 and 2013. Not enough for a HOF - assuming the rest of his career is like this year, assuming no Norm Smiths etc.

 

[Hawkinspired]

If you were looking for an "easy target" or example of "diluting the pool", I'd suggest your efforts would have been far better concentrated on Koutoufides, whose inclusion is bordering on laughable.

Koutoufides should not have been inducted either. I have no interest in comparing players but looking back on their careers now as a Hawthorn supporter with no bias and a strong hate for Carlton, his heights were far greater than Johnson's.

 

[Zeke]

The naivety Johnson was never top shelf?? 74 goals, 20 touches a game and All Australian Captain in 2006 was "below elite." If he did that at another club people would still talk about it

How many of those 74 were little cherry-picking cheapies out the back of the pack?

 

[El_Scorcho]

How many of those 74 were little cherry-picking cheapies out the back of the pack?

I've just phoned the rules committee for comment and their official position is that when you kick a cherry-picking cheapies out the back of the pack, you are still awarded the full 6 points.

He's a small forward. Getting himself into the right place at the right time to score goals is pretty much his entire job description.