List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Trade FA Megathread

[goodie23]

That has the potential to be a really strong-bodied midfield, Armo, Dunstan, Curren plus Steven's no slouch. Key positions at both ends still look a bit frail though.

 

[Hayes4PM]

That has the potential to be a really strong-bodied midfield, Armo, Dunstan, Curren plus Steven's no slouch. Key positions at both ends still look a bit frail though.

Key forward situation will be solved next year with one of Wright/McCartin/Durdin/Goddard you would imagine, and if Tom Lee can continue his form and Spencer White increases his fitness there's 3 targets for the future. Rhys has a bet to prove still.

 

[Periphery]

Key forward situation will be solved next year with one of Wright/McCartin/Durdin/Goddard you would imagine, and if Tom Lee can continue his form and Spencer White increases his fitness there's 3 targets for the future. Rhys has a bet to prove still.

I would say White has more to prove than Stanley at this stage. White isn't exactly ripping it up in the VFL and while Stanley hasn't done a huge amount at AFL level he has shown some real potential in the past.

It is clearly too early to make a call either way but at the moment Stanley has to be more highly rated than White. If White starts dominating the VFL then we can get excited.

As you said, with the addition of a KPF next year plus Lee/Stanley/White and Longer/Hickey our tall forward stocks look good. They won't all make it, but we should get a good forward line from those guys unless we get super unlucky.

Our defensive future rests almost entirely on how Bruce and Delaney develop. If they both come good then they will form the core of our defense for many years to come. If one of them fails then I expect we will have to target a Key Defender via FA closer to our flag window (we might do this anyway). Lets not think about what happens if both of them fail.

 

[Ian Dunross]

I left out Savage by accident, handy mid/flanker.

Like the look of Bruce at CHB. A third tall for def to float over Bruce and Delaney needed, and a quality tall forward to allow Lee and White to lead up, rather than pack mark. Stanley could be the answer at either end or could go another way. Surely one or both ends will get solved at this year's draft.

 

[Hayes4PM]

I would say White has more to prove than Stanley at this stage. White isn't exactly ripping it up in the VFL and while Stanley hasn't done a huge amount at AFL level he has shown some real potential in the past.

It is clearly too early to make a call either way but at the moment Stanley has to be more highly rated than White. If White starts dominating the VFL then we can get excited.

As you said, with the addition of a KPF next year plus Lee/Stanley/White and Longer/Hickey our tall forward stocks look good. They won't all make it, but we should get a good forward line from those guys unless we get super unlucky.

Our defensive future rests almost entirely on how Bruce and Delaney develop. If they both come good then they will form the core of our defense for many years to come. If one of them fails then I expect we will have to target a Key Defender via FA closer to our flag window (we might do this anyway). Lets not think about what happens if both of them fail.

Spencer White is 19 though, Rhys Stanley is 23, he's had a fair few years on our list and while showing sign he hasn't been consistent. Injuries have hampered him admittedly, but if he is just an injury prone body/build then that's another reason he won't make it. Spencer showed moments of talent and skill last year but needed to build his tank. I'd love for both of them to turn out as quality players but I think Spencer is more likely.

 

[God Save Max King]

Key forward situation will be solved next year with one of Wright/McCartin/Durdin/Goddard you would imagine, and if Tom Lee can continue his form and Spencer White increases his fitness there's 3 targets for the future. Rhys has a bet to prove still.

As I look at the Saints key forwards stocks, I'm yet to see a future "sure thing". Rhys Stanley is one who at this point in his career will more than likely not be successful in his pursuit of excellence. Tom Lee seems to do well as a second forward but he could struggle with the opposition's best defender playing on him. Spencer White is yet to show consistency. While that is to be expected, the short signs of brilliance do not guarantee long-term success in the AFL.

As for the draftees, Wright has had injury issues, concerning for a person his size. Goddard and Durdin are two who I see developing to become defenders, as they aren't elite at the attacking end. I like McCartin, but I worry about his health. I agree that there is plenty of potential in the Saints key forwards stocks, but one more pick will not solve our post-Riewoldt issues.

 

[Defacto]

Spencer White is 19 though, Rhys Stanley is 23, he's had a fair few years on our list and while showing sign he hasn't been consistent. Injuries have hampered him admittedly, but if he is just an injury prone body/build then that's another reason he won't make it. Spencer showed moments of talent and skill last year but needed to build his tank. I'd love for both of them to turn out as quality players but I think Spencer is more likely.

the thing for me is that stanley and white are two different FWDs IMO, were comparing apples with oranges

stanley is a resting ruck who can play fwd
white is a KPF

white isnt someone i'd throw into the ruck and break, he's has the potential to be a marque fwd that you protect and keep him where he'll be dangerous

i'd be throwing maister into the ruck before i'd even consider white or lee for that matter

stanley competes with longer and hickey IMO

 

[Hayes4PM]

As I look at the Saints key forwards stocks, I'm yet to see a future "sure thing". Rhys Stanley is one who at this point in his career will more than likely not be successful in his pursuit of excellence. Tom Lee seems to do well as a second forward but he could struggle with the opposition's best defender playing on him. Spencer White is yet to show consistency. While that is to be expected, the short signs of brilliance do not guarantee long-term success in the AFL.

As for the draftees, Wright has had injury issues, concerning for a person his size. Goddard and Durdin are two who I see developing to become defenders, as they aren't elite at the attacking end. I like McCartin, but I worry about his health. I agree that there is plenty of potential in the Saints key forwards stocks, but one more pick will not solve our post-Riewoldt issues.

I think Tom Lee is a sure thing, just not as the key target or primary goal kicker. He kicked 17 goals in 10 games last year and towards the end of the season had kicked 3 goals in 3 of those games. Another pre-season and more experience, I'd expect Lee to kick 30ish goals this year if he can get 15+ games in, and I think that's all he needs to do. Riewoldt will be the focal point for the next 2 years but then either Spencer will need to have come good, a draftee from this years draft or a player we trade into the club. I don't think the situation is dire, as Riewoldt plans to play for another 2 years which will help, but key forwards would be the focus in the next 2 drafts I would imagine, as the defensive stocks were solved this year. We also have a group of young mids now, although maybe not enough high quality young midfielders.

For me the key is that Riewoldt void isn't right now, or even next year, it's quite different to when Lyon packed his bags and took our key defender with him.

 

[karaoke]

As I look at the Saints key forwards stocks, I'm yet to see a future "sure thing". Rhys Stanley is one who at this point in his career will more than likely not be successful in his pursuit of excellence. Tom Lee seems to do well as a second forward but he could struggle with the opposition's best defender playing on him. Spencer White is yet to show consistency. While that is to be expected, the short signs of brilliance do not guarantee long-term success in the AFL.

As for the draftees, Wright has had injury issues, concerning for a person his size. Goddard and Durdin are two who I see developing to become defenders, as they aren't elite at the attacking end. I like McCartin, but I worry about his health. I agree that there is plenty of potential in the Saints key forwards stocks, but one more pick will not solve our post-Riewoldt issues.

#PattonaSaint2015

 

[Hayes4PM]

#PattonaSaint2015

 

[aussierulesrules]

#PattonaSaint2015

Yep, some apples are surely going to fall free from the GWS "Talls Tree" some time soon (given that they're not going to have room for all of Cameron, Patton, Boyd, Tomlinson, Jacksch, McCarthy, Corr, Davis, Stewart, etc and those that aren't getting games are not likely to want to hang around, to play NEAFL) and being likely to have some reasonably high draft picks in the next couple of years puts us in a great position to be able to trade for one or more of them.

Get a Patton rather than a Wright or McCartin and it could help speed up the rebuild by a year or two.

I would think we'd be able to build a very good forward line with 6 of say Patton, Lee, White, Stanley, Longer/Hickey, Siposs, Markworth, Savage, Murdoch, Billings, Acres, Curren, Minchington, Milera, Saad (??) and so-on.

As for defence, I would still be looking at drafting someone that is suited to FB or CHB with a relatively early pick (late teens or early-mid 20's) if there was someone suitable in that range, unless both Delaney and Bruce look really good this year.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Yep, some apples are surely going to fall free from the GWS "Talls Tree" some time soon (given that they're not going to have room for all of Cameron, Patton, Boyd, Tomlinson, Jacksch, McCarthy, Corr, Davis, Stewart, etc and those that aren't getting games are not likely to want to hang around, to play NEAFL) and being likely to have some reasonably high draft picks in the next couple of years puts us in a great position to be able to trade for one or more of them.

Get a Patton rather than a Wright or McCartin and it could help speed up the rebuild by a year or two.

I would think we'd be able to build a very good forward line with 6 of say Patton, Lee, White, Stanley, Longer/Hickey, Siposs, Markworth, Savage, Murdoch, Billings, Acres, Curren, Minchington, Milera, Saad (??) and so-on.

As for defence, I would still be looking at drafting someone that is suited to FB or CHB with a relatively early pick (late teens or early-mid 20's) if there was someone suitable in that range, unless both Delaney and Bruce look really good this year.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Would be a Pelchen miracle getting Patton without losing our first pick (1-5).

But hell, after what he's done in the past 2 years - it's not out of the question.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Would be a Pelchen miracle getting Patton without losing our first pick (1-5).

But hell, after what he's done in the past 2 years - it's not out of the question.

You never know; our 2nd pick (early 20's) and a player like Gilbert or Fisher for Patton. Not ridiculous, in our favour but not ridiculous. Especially when you consider their glut of talls who will all be looking at each other thinking "I ain't getting a game as a key forward with Boyd and Cameron in here". They will want to leave and everyone will know this, GWS can put their game face on at the trade table but everyone with a set of eyes will know these kids will want out this year maybe or next year at the latest.

 

[joop]

It's funny that it's preseason and the one topic still going strong is the trade and draft thread! Haha great reading lads

 

[aussierulesrules]

You never know; our 2nd pick (early 20's) and a player like Fisher for Patton. Not ridiculous, in our favour but not ridiculous.

Um, I think it might be!

 

[Highlander35]

Ridiculous? Yes. Unlikely? Yes? Impossible? No...

 

[Persevering Saint]

Patton signed a new contract, until the end of 2016, just the beginning of last year. Now, I personally think he was ridiculously stupid to do that, especially since we all knew that Boyd was going to go to the Giants as their first pick. He's basically contracted himself to be playing seconds for the worst team in the league for two more years, and then one of the greatest teams in the league for the two after that, you'd suspect. He better be flipping confident, or he's crazy.

But yeah, he's landed himself in a position where trading for him is going to be flipping difficult.

 

[Periphery]

Patton signed a new contract, until the end of 2016

Really? Because the GWS player contracts thread says he is only contracted till 2015. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/gws-players-contract-status.1008964/

 

[hayes]

With Boyd mentioning multiple times on draft night that he enjoys spending some time in the ruck I don't think it's out of the question for them to play all of Cameron, Boyd and Patton all in the one team. A lot of teams are going with two key forwards plus a forward/ruckmen anyway and the three of them are talented enough to make it work. Our only hope would be if he nominated us. But that's fine, they've got plenty of other talls who are going to want opportunities and there aren't many teams who can offer as much of that as we can.

 

[Hayes4PM]

I don't think Boyd is going to play much time in the ruck, they have Mumford and Giles for that he'd be wasted in the ruck. I think it's a matter of which club gets to poach one of their forwards, I doubt they can keep all of them.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

I'm interested to know who we will trade ala Big Boy to give us 3-4 picks in the top 20 at the end of the year.
Our rebuild will take another 3 drafts, we need to manage expectations and keep paying our membership, we don't need fans slagging off at games and social media if we are losing. We need top 3 talent along with added top 20, the last thing we need is Wright or McCartin ending up at GWS and turned into defenders or a leading ruck man.
Re the trade bait, I'm thinking Armitage and Stanley would be at the head of the queue at this stage.

 

[Hayes4PM]

I'm interested to know who we will trade ala Big Boy to give us 3-4 picks in the top 20 at the end of the year.
Our rebuild will take another 3 drafts, we need to manage expectations and keep paying our membership, we don't need fans slagging off at games and social media if we are losing. We need top 3 talent along with added top 20, the last thing we need is Wright or McCartin ending up at GWS and turned into defenders or a leading ruck man.
Re the trade bait, I'm thinking Armitage and Stanley would be at the head of the queue at this stage.

Really though, how much is Stanley worth? A 2nd rounder at best. he'd have to be a part of a package ie. Stanley and 2nd rounder for late 1st rounder

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Stanley wouldn't even be worth a 3rd rounder at the moment.

 

[aussierulesrules]

the last thing we need is Wright or McCartin ending up at GWS and turned into defenders or a leading ruck man.

I don't think there's any point in us worrying about what GWS get or don't get. That horse has bolted. It bolted when all the clubs agreed to the concessions the AFL were planning to give them.

If we finish last and it pushes them to 2nd last, what does that achieve? They'd still be able to get one of Wright or McCartin and play them in the ruck, or down back.

If we're going to try and match GWS draft pick for draft pick, we're going to lose, unless we plan on coming last for about the next 5 years, by which time we'll well and truly be the new Melbourne and we'll have pissed away the winning culture that we built up over a ten year period, the likes of which we've probably never had in our 100+ year history of losing.

We need top 3 talent along with added top 20

"Need" by definition suggests that something is essential. That if we get it it will "guarantee" us something. What will more top 3 or top 20 draft picks guarantee us?

From where I'm sitting, all it will guarantee us is that we can then say we've had x-amount of top 3 and top 20 draft picks, just like teams like Melbourne and Carlton can, after the bucketload of those they've had between them in the past 11 years (Pick 1: M Kruezer, B Gibbs, M Murphy, T Scully, J Watts. Pick 2: A Walker, J Trengove. Pick 3: C Sylvia. Pick 4: J Kennedy, C Morton, J Toumpas, Pick 5: B McLean. Pick 6: C Yarran. Pick 9: J Russell, C Salem, Pick 11: J Gysberts, T Menzel. Pick 12: K Lucas, N Jones, J Frawley, L Cook, Pick 13: M Bate, P Cripps Pick 14: J Grimes. Pick 15: L Dunn. Pick 17: S Hampson, S Blease. Pick 18: L Tapscott, M Watson. Pick 19: S Grigg, J Strauss. Pick 20: P Bower- That's 32 of them. 8 top-3 and 32 top-20 picks between 2 clubs over an 11 year period. 4 top-3 and 18 top-20 picks for Melbourne alone.) And if there are two teams I don't see being a genuine shot at a premiership any time in the near future, it's those two, after building up losing cultures over the years and also being run over by the karma-bus for trying to manipulate the system and thinking it would pay off, or be some miracle cure-all for their ills.

On the other hand, there are other teams that are in with a huge shot at a premiership year after year, who have much less top 3 or top 20 picks between them, but who do more than enough other things well to ensure that they don't "need" them.

I would have thought that means we only "need" them ourselves if we aren't doing enough of those other things (such as development, maintaining a winning culture, strategies/game plan, opposition analysis, fitness/strength/durability, injury-management, welfare, culture, talent identification, trading, etc) well enough.