Strategy 2014 game plan improvements

[geelong_crazy26]

He doesn't even need to spend the whole game on the ball, even if it was just one quarter he could impact.

Given the age and experience gap we may see in our defense with retirements and aging experience, I wouldn't mind seeing bartel a permanent rebounding floating defender for 2014, this role is just about the most important position in the game right now

 

[you pick one]

I rate him a better coach that Thompson, would trade back for Thompson if I had the choice now, I think he is a much better tactician, in ways I think he is a excellent developer Thompson, but I'm not sold on him as a tactician, he got out coached by Lyon malthouse and clarkson

Ummm,RD19 at the G this year v Hawthorn,Mitchell 900 disposals left to run riot,plenty of us on this board agreed if we let him do that in the preliminary final we'd be in trouble and we did and we were,that was Scott's 2008 Thompson/Stokes on Hodge equivalent.

Should have quoted this also from Jon

"'IMO Thompson was a very ordinary game day coach. He just had an excellent group of footy players that worked well as a team incredibly consistently - and the game plan worked so often that he just kept assuming it would prevail. It generally did but the loss to Hawthorn in 2008 indicated he just could not make moves when required. Stokes on Hodge - it failed and failed and failed and he did nothing !"

 

[kicksome]

how about we dont bomb it long to the tip of the goalsquare every time we enter the 50 and pray that an injured tom hawkins soars the pack and clunks one, or podsiadly's replacement the almighty conqueror in josh the texas ranger walker can drop a chest mark to where no crumbers are waiting.
See what i did there?

 

[Whit3y]

2 Things that we need and would have been the difference last season
1: A healthy Ruck (Simpson/Hmac)
2: Bartel on the ball in finals

how many games did we win and lose with simpson in the side?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Ummm,RD19 at the G this year v Hawthorn,Mitchell 900 disposals left to run riot,plenty of us on this board agreed if we let him do that in the preliminary final we'd be in trouble and we did and we were,that was Scott's 2008 Thompson/Stokes on Hodge equivalent.

Should have quoted this also from Jon

"'IMO Thompson was a very ordinary game day coach. He just had an excellent group of footy players that worked well as a team incredibly consistently - and the game plan worked so often that he just kept assuming it would prevail. It generally did but the loss to Hawthorn in 2008 indicated he just could not make moves when required. Stokes on Hodge - it failed and failed and failed and he did nothing !"

I think it's the game plan more than anything which allowed players to rebound across hb against us, not so much poor match ups, I hardly even think of match ups when it comes to tactics, I'm pretty sure that during the week leading up to games Chris Scott and the coaching panel would spend not even 10% of the preparation on match ups! it isn't that complicated or difficult really, 20 years ago I think it was a huge aspect of coaching as football used to be more about individuals, now it's game plan and team centric how everyone gels together. I'm not going to judge Chris Scott on something like that which I'm pretty much 100% sure he would have been aware of straight away and didn't make changes to! they obviously had their sound reasons which on the surface as a spectator probably wouldn't be apparent

 

[Partridge]

I know some people hate on Scotty, and I don't like to be one of them, but he didn't really seem to have a Plan B at times, although neither did Bomber Thompson.
Plan B could have been, tag Mitchell with Bartel, Guthrie or Enright.
We have a really versatile 22 but we didn't make use of that enough.

This is just my view, but the whole "didn't have a Plan B" is a very simplistic and inaccurate excuse. It could be that players just aren't playing as well as you want them to. I'm sure every coach expects every player to do his job, but it doesn't always work out that way. The 2008 is the classic game where the "we didn't have a Plan B" line is brought up, but the fact is we dominated absolutely everywhere on the ground except the scoreboard. I very much doubt there's a specific plan for "well get 20 more inside 50s, but kick 11 successive behinds".

As for tagging Mitchell, well Bartel I really doubt is up to it anymore in the midfield, Enright wasn't playing, and Guthrie was already doing a very good job on Rioli. Scott trusted in Kelly to be able to negate him and he couldn't.

I'd say a far bigger concern than gameplan at least in 2013 was selection. All season long. Both with who got picked and who didn't, who was played even though they had neither form nor fitness, and players not being managed throughout the year for the 2nd year running. This is while we get the "we're aiming to play our best footy in the finals" bullshit from the club. You're measured on your results. And our output in September was nowhere near good enough.

I'm far less bothered by matchday tactics than I am by who will be in the 22. Especially when Scott and Balme preach the "younger player will be preferred to the veteran every day" crap when it very clearly doesn't apply at all.

 

[Partridge]

List management.
We started this in 2011, and for reasons of multiple injured players, did NOT seem to do so this year.
It is possible to keep injecting fresh in form young talent into our lineup, while strategically resting the whole team at various times; some players need more than 1 bye, some several more it would appear. Winning early games should help, and we did.

Yeah that's my big worry for 2014. Because I don't see them learning any lessons in this area.

 

[Partridge]

how many games did we win and lose with simpson in the side?

4-2 with him.
14-2 without him.

 

[Lana]

4-2 with him.
14-2 without him.

If you ignore our losses in the finals and as if that is an accurate measure of his benefit to the team by that logic you'd rather we played Trent West in front of him. The fact is that throughout the year and in the finals in particular we got slaughtered in the middle. This caused issues else where around the ground when the match committee made concessions at match selection and with the game plan we used.

Throughout the year
we averaged 4.6 clearances less per game then our opponents, ranked 17th Beating only Melbourne
we averaged 7.2 less hitouts per game then our opponents, ranked 16th Beating only St Kilda and the Suns

We had one of the weakest Ruck divisions in the league and it really showed.

Throughout the year
Freemantle averaged 0.7 clearances more per game then their opponents, ranked 7th
Freemantle averaged 1.8 more hitouts per game then their opponents, ranked 7th

Hawthorn averaged 0.4 clearances less per game then their opponents, ranked 13th
Hawthorn averaged 1.8 more hitouts per game then their opponents, ranked 8th

While Freemantle's above stats are skewed by the absence of Sandilands and the injury to there first choice back up in Griffen, Hawthorn inside work was statistically not dominant.

However In the finals we
Against Freemantle we had 21 less clearances and 37 less Hitouts
Against Hawthorn we had 4 less clearances and 18 less hitouts

When your ruck division is this inferior to your opponents its like your midfielders are playing with a hand tied behind their back

For the five full matches that Simpson played
We averaged 2.2 more clearances and 3.8 more hitouts than our opponents though this is propped up by an outlier against Melbourne in general we more competitive in the middle.

In the first quarter against St Kilda he was Killing McEvoy(though this isn't really a great achievement)

All the stats above highlight a systematic issue that will be mitigated by having a number one ruckman taller than 198cm. Simpson or McIntosh doesn't have to dominate there opponents to make us better as a team by just breaking even in they will make it much easier for our midfielders to win clearances.

Beyond the stats, when he played well we look that we were playing good football. Even when we were winning we looked as a team completely out of form.

 

[Partridge]

If you ignore our losses in the finals and as if that is an accurate measure of his benefit to the team by that logic you'd rather we played Trent West in front of him. The fact is that throughout the year and in the finals in particular we got slaughtered in the middle. This caused issues else where around the ground when the match committee made concessions at match selection and with the game plan we used.

Before you direct any more rants at me, read what I actually wrote and what was asked. One question was put to me, and I provided the answer. Never said anywhere we shouldn't be playing Simpson. Quite the contrary, nor that the ruck wasn't a problem at times throughout the year and a massive liability in the finals.

 

[speedybundy]

Nigel Lappin came and talked to us at my footy club the other day. Said that for the past few years Geelong have prided themselves on being the n1 team in the comp for numbers around the ball. Said this year they actually got exposed for having to many around the ball and none of the packs (as many of us saw) so they had to pull that back. Said that they are continuing to develop that plan for next year

EDIT: none around the packs

 

[BotsMaster]

I think if we keep Jimmy Bartel out of the defensive goal square we should be fine.

 

[speedybundy]

none of the packs...does that mean when we kicked into the forward line and we couldn't bring down the mark which then allowed defenses to run away fairly easily out of the backline?
Or was it more to do with players further up the field at stoppages etc?

Sorry should have said none AROUND the packs. Generally at stoppages/contested parts of play, remember against Adelaide was the game we got really exposed for this

 

[Partridge]

Given the age and experience gap we may see in our defense with retirements and aging experience, I wouldn't mind seeing bartel a permanent rebounding floating defender for 2014, this role is just about the most important position in the game right now

If it is he should be kept 100 metres from it. Watch the last quarter of the Prelim for pretty definitive evidence why.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

If we can bring the defensive game that we played mid year, we should be alright.

Our lack of clearances, no tagger, forward pressure and ruck stocks really hurt and I don't think we will see the full benefits of the game plan until everyone is healthy for a reasonable amount of time. The other worry is the obsession with pace, I think we play too many outside type players playing together and not enough inside players.

I still think we will hover around the bottom half of the top 8. The team still has class, but so much inexperience.

 

[The rabbi]

how about we dont bomb it long to the tip of the goalsquare every time we enter the 50 and pray that an injured tom hawkins soars the pack and clunks one, or podsiadly's replacement the almighty conqueror in josh the texas ranger walker can drop a chest mark to where no crumbers are waiting.
See what i did there?

Yep, seen it before.

kent kingsly > tom hawkins

 

[geelong_crazy26]

none of the packs...does that mean when we kicked into the forward line and we couldn't bring down the mark which then allowed defenses to run away fairly easily out of the backline?
Or was it more to do with players further up the field at stoppages etc?

i think what it means is that we had too many players at contests in close around the contest trying to apply pressure in close, and that we lacked numbers on the outside, which made it pressure less and easy for sides to move forward once they figured out a way through our congestion of players pressuring in close.

makes sense to me this scenario, we really did seem to have trouble getting the ball back once other sides began spreading from contests

 

[Jon Douglas]

People seem to assume if you have leg speed you are an outside player. What about Judd - had great pace and could play the inside mid role well. They are not mutually exclusive.

Would you prefer an inside mid to be slow or have good leg speed ?

Obviously you would like your inside mid to have good leg speed. He doesn't have to have it but if he does great. Good leg speed is an advantage - just like good vision, good hands and a good leap.

The ultimate player would have a good leap, have good hands, have good leg speed, good endurance, be a good kick on both sides, good vision, good decision maker, able to play inside and outside - and is 6 ft 4 inches tall.

The more attributes the better I say.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

do you think our lack of speed through midfield contributed?
I know some believe speed is exaggerated in the modern game but Corey, Bartel, Johnson, Stokes and Kelly aren't exactly quick and this poses a dilemma with Horlin-Smith and Schroder expected to get more games in 2014 but they too are a little slow.

Probably why our match committee like to keep Blicavs around stoppages and why Murdoch and Smedts spent more time in VFL playing midfield because we do need to get some explosive types around the footy.

Varcoe and Poodle are obviously much maligned in recent times but we sure would benefit considerably if they returned to their best.

Would you consider, Hawks, Swans and even Pies have slow midfields which are often touted as among the best in the leauge? What about our 2007-2011 midfield? That was considered slow, we where always weary of Blues in those days because they could cut us up with speed but they haven't even broken top 4 with that supposed pace.

People seem to assume if you have leg speed you are an outside player. What about Judd - had great pace and could play the inside mid role well. They are not mutually exclusive.
.

But Judd doesn't play for us. In our list of pacey players, who do you think is a true inside mid? Or at least has potential?

 

[Partridge]

do you think our lack of speed through midfield contributed?
I know some believe speed is exaggerated in the modern game but Corey, Bartel, Johnson, Stokes and Kelly aren't exactly quick and this poses a dilemma with Horlin-Smith and Schroder expected to get more games in 2014 but they too are a little slow.

Probably why our match committee like to keep Blicavs around stoppages and why Murdoch and Smedts spent more time in VFL playing midfield because we do need to get some explosive types around the footy.

Varcoe and Poodle are obviously much maligned in recent times but we sure would benefit considerably if they returned to their best.

If Blicavs added anything around the stoppages he'd either get a lot more hitouts or a lot more possessions. He got neither. Simple fact is the midfield is in transition. Corey has now gone which flings the door finally open for Horlin-Smith. Bartel won't play there much. Johnson isn't slow, and Stokes is ok over the first few yards. Kelly's the only really slow midfielder in the team right now.

 

[you pick one]

If Blicavs added anything around the stoppages he'd either get a lot more hitouts or a lot more possessions. He got neither. Simple fact is the midfield is in transition. Corey has now gone which flings the door finally open for Horlin-Smith. Bartel won't play there much. Johnson isn't slow, and Stokes is ok over the first few yards. Kelly's the only really slow midfielder in the team right now.

I agree with you on Blics and I'm hopeful our mids will be more competitive with a genuine no one ruckman in the side be it Daws or H.Mc, we have mids and it appears plenty of forwards on the list coming through,the big problem short term/long term is if we lose one of Taylor or Lonergan,I have a sneaky suspicion all of Blics, Brown and Walker will see action as defenders next year like it or not even if it's not their natural position and depending on how they respond it could decide their future at the Cattery.

 

[Partridge]

I agree with you on Blics and I'm hopeful our mids will be more competitive with a genuine no one ruckman in the side be it Daws or H.Mc, we have mids and it appears plenty of forwards on the list coming through,the big problem short term/long term is if we lose one of Taylor or Lonergan,I have a sneaky suspicion all of Blics, Brown and Walker will see action as defenders next year like it or not even if it's not their natural position and depending on how they respond it could decide their future at the Cattery.

The problem is only one of those three has any experience at all playing key defence. Walker might yet make it there although he looks far more comfortable as a key forward to me. But agree and that's why to me getting games into Brown as a third tall defender should be a priority (providing pre-season form and training justifies it). That way if Taylor or Lonergan did go down he might have another 10 games into him by then and at his stage in development it can make a hell of a difference.

 

[kicksome]

Yep, seen it before.

when did i post that? mid 2011?
yeah well kent was better than hawkins then

 

[you pick one]

The problem is only one of those three has any experience at all playing key defence. Walker might yet make it there although he looks far more comfortable as a key forward to me. But agree and that's why to me getting games into Brown as a third tall defender should be a priority (providing pre-season form and training justifies it). That way if Taylor or Lonergan did go down he might have another 10 games into him by then and at his stage in development it can make a hell of a difference.

I agree Brown is the only one to have spent any real time back there at AFL level but like you with Walker I think Brown also is more suited to a forward role,I'm not his no1 fan as you know but like every one else I will be watching with interest his preseason form and progression and hoping he gets an injury free run at the up coming season,from there it's que sera sera I guess,the balls in his court.I wish him well.

 

[Partridge]

I agree Brown is the only one to have spent any real time back there at AFL level but like you with Walker I think Brown also is more suited to a forward role,I'm not his no1 fan as you know but like every one else I will be watching with interest his preseason form and progression and hoping he gets an injury free run at the up coming season,from there it's que sera sera I guess,the balls in his court.I wish him well.

Well with West gone I hope he's drawn the big target on his back because he'll need it next year.