List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & Free Agency Discussion thread II

[G0ther00s]

Would we have to keep him on our list? Considering our list changes, surely we wouldn’t want Mayne.
Basically reads like selling a draft pick. It makes for an interesting conversation putting a dollar figure on a pick.

If we took on the remainder of his contract, I’m guessing $1.2M over 3? I’d be wanting pick 6 at a minimum.

I'm sure you could delist him with remaining years on his contract, but unless North really needed an additional spot on the roster, I'm not sure they'd bother. It's always good to have some veterans around the club, and as bad as Mayne has been, he has always applied really good forward half pressure, so it's something he could mentor our young forwards to do. Ofcourse it's an extremely unlikely hypothetical, Collingwood would have to have someone asking to come to them and them not being able to get it done because of salary cap, and then there are also other teams like Brisbane who offer to take his cap hit for a 2nd rounder, and that undercuts us.

 

[Brufen]

Not sure I’d be using the Nets as a template for success.

There are two Nets, pre 2014 & post 2014.
On court it hasn’t translated yet, but they are absolutely moving in the right direction, particularly off the back of ‘salary dumping’. D’Angelo Russell and Timofey Mozgov for Brook Lopez being the most recent example.
They will win 30-35 games this year which is incredible given where they’ve come from!!
They have a very good head of Sports Science over there and exponents of our very own KangaTech.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Tectonic]

as a Brooklyn Nets fan, I can definitely see the benefits of taking on another team's salary dump.

If our other players have an issue, tell them to trust the process. It's a good way to speed up a rebuild.

Heres a little reading for those interested

The Risk and Reward of Salary Dumps

• By Charles Maniego
• on May 30, 2017 5:24 pm

Adrian Wojnarowski has confirmed, the Brooklyn Nets may very well seek salary dump trades this summer. In absorbing a large salary, Sean Marks would seek compensation —either a young player or a draft pick— for absorbing the financial burden, as Woj stated.

The methodology is similar to the Wizards deadline deal that sent a first round pick and Andrew Nicholson to the Nets. But therein lies the risk.

The summer of 2016 saw the salary cap jump from $70 to $94 million, with the NBA transitioning to a new national TV deal. Every team was flush with cap space. Free agency featured several huge deals, with many of us unaccustomed to the sheer volume of money thrown at free agents, not all of them stars, around the league.


$72 million for Joakim Noah? Sure.

$64 million for Timofey Mozgov? No problem.

$226 million for Evan Turner, Meyers Leonard, Allen Crabbe and Mo Harkless over four years? “My body is ready,” said Neil Olshey (not an actual quote.)

Basically, players got PAID.

Not even halfway through the season, buyer’s remorse arose with disappointing production. Many of the players signed last summer agreed to four-year deals. The contracts of Mozgov, Noah, Luol Deng and others are a horror to some, with compounding declines in production for large chunks of salary cap. (As I stated before, “I Know Who You Signed Last Summer” should be the NBA GM horror film. “Dawn of the Dead Money” could be another.)

After failed restricted free agency dalliances in 2016, the Nets preserved their cap space last summer —and through the season, signing veterans to short term deals. The Nets are projected to have the third most cap space in the NBA, behind only the 76ers and the Heat, per RealGM’s (and CelticsBlog’s and 16 Wins A Ring’s) Keith Smith. The final number will be dependent on the Nets’ decisions on the team options and guarantees this summer. Brooklyn is primed to sign free agents to big money, or acquire big contracts via trade.

Throughout his interviews with the media, Sean Marks preached patience and a systematic building of the Nets’ future. Marks frequently spoke of finding the right deal, not just for his current roster, but also in building a sustainable roster going forward. Acquiring a big contract could damage the Nets’ contract flexibility next season and beyond, even with the acquisition of high upside assets.

Specifically, here’s what he told beat writers at the end of the season.

“If you go after one of the top-tier guys, you obviously would hope to get him, but does that really make you better?” Marks asked. “Does it get you to 30 wins, 35 wins?


“You don’t want to go and sign free agents and then the next thing you know your payroll is capped out and you’re a 25-win team. We’re going to have to build this strategically, have patience with it.”

In talking about the Nets desire to dump salary for picks, Woj explicitly mentioned the Lakers 2016 veteran signings of Timofey Mozgov and Luol Deng as dump candidates.

The Portland Trailblazers’ trove of big contracts could be another. In fact, Keith Smith tweeted Tuesday night that Portland may be willing to dump one of its salaries in return for one of its three first round picks (at Nos. 15, 20 and 26).

Smith speculated that Allen Crabbe might be the bait. Portland, of course, matched on the Nets offer sheet tendered him last July 10.

For the record, the Blazers owe Crabbe $19.33 million next season and $18.5 million in 2018-19. He has a player option for $18.5 million in 2019-20 as well. Crabbe recently underwent foot surgery. Leonard and Harkless are owed about $33 million each over next three seasons. No options.


The contracts of Ian Mahinmi, Miles Plumlee, Joakim Noah (no thanks), and Raptors Jonas Valanciunas and DeMarre Carroll (both signed in 2015) could be other contracts teams would seek to deal to the Nets.

For example, if the Nets acquire Timofey Mozgov via trade with the Lakers, his contract would eat into the Nets’ cap room. Mozgov is slated to make $16 million per season until 2019-2020. That would slash the Nets’ max cap space of $34 million nearly in half. A maximum restricted free agent offer (currently slated at $25,250,000, per Keith Smith) would not be plausible for the Nets, unless another guaranteed contracts is moved for a smaller asset. While Mozgov’s season was decent for a sixth or seventh option in 2016-2017, his salary may have outweighed his production at age 30. The same could be said of Ian Mahinmi, Luol Deng, Chandler Parsons and others.

Looking to future offseasons, if the Nets decide to sign Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Brook Lopez or others to extensions, the salary acquired from salary dumps could leave Sean Marks with difficult decisions. Extensions, paired with a dumped contract could possibly force the Nets into the luxury tax bracket. The Portland Trailblazers’ 2017-2018 payroll is an example, with Paul Allen possibly footing luxury tax payments for a team that barely made the playoffs.

One alternative, stretching an unwanted contract, would leave dead money on the payroll for years, as seen by Deron Williams’ buyout. Williams will be paid $5.47 million by the Nets through 2019-2020 – five seasons after his last game in Brooklyn. Every 1st and 15th of the month, he gets a check of more than $200,00 and will through July 1 of 2020.

And trying to trade away an albatross contract would involve the shedding of assets. That could be counterintuitive for the Nets, who have searched every avenue for talent. Keep in mind, one aspect of the dreaded Celtics trade was the absorption of the last three years of Gerald Wallace’s deal at $30 million, which cost the Nets a first round draft pick. Pair that with the pick used to acquire Wallace initially, and he cost two first round picks for 85 games. Sorry for that reminder.

The Brooklyn Nets are slowly building an arsenal of assets. Cap space may be the biggest asset, especially in the wake of a rising salary cap and teams filling their payrolls.

How that cap space is manipulated could play a major role in the Nets’ fortunes going forward. Brooklyn could acquire buzzworthy young assets to pair with the large contracts, but the financial burden may eat away at the Nets’ future flexibility.

The salary dumps of this summer could turn into the albatrosses of the future down the line. The Nets’ offseason is a “choose your own adventure” book of possibilities. Or is it poison?

 

[year of the roo]

Basketbore.

 

[Firestarter]

How did you feel when we were interested in Marley?

It will be in my post history that I was meh on the player. Obviously proved me wrong. Don't reckon Lang would be anywhere near as cheap an acquisition.

 

[RobZombie]

- We have a three year list management strategy in place i.e tank for two years and then sign Josh Kelly.

Good summary, but my take on that particular point was that 3 years is generally the rolling window where you have relatively firm ideas about where the list is headed, what your likely outs are, what your priorities to bring in are. Not that we have a specific 3-year plan now, just that we always keep the medium term in our plans.

 

[Firestarter]

Basketbore.

Bah-sketball?

 

[FloozyRoozy]

Love the thought process behind Darcy Lang by the club, is 21, a former first round selection and has shown plenty of promise in his 44 games so far. Could be a pivotal part of our best 22 going forward towards a premiership.

 

[RobZombie]

Are these ******s trying to off-load Mayne to us?

I'd actually do it, if Collingwood's 2nd and Mayne's salary came over for our 3rd. Park him in the VFL with a leadership role, to be used in the seniors only in dire emergency, let him soak up some cap while we pay kids peanuts, if his deal is front loaded cash him out a year early.

Would never get ticked off by the league tho.

 

[G0ther00s]

The people on trade radio are so ill informed when it comes to free agency and trading, most of them have no clue. Kane Cornes just announced his 5th worst trade of all time was Luke Hodge and Sam Mitchell for Trent Croad and Luke McPharlin. Well that wasn't the trade, the trade was
Fremantle trade: 1, 20 and 36
Hawthorn trade: Croad, and McPharlin

On paper that's a pretty good trade for Fremantle, sure Croad eventually left, but that didn't have anything to do with the trade at the time. This is how good Croad was at the time "Club officials could hardly have known they almost started a civil war, with fans up in arms that the Hawks were prepared to offload Croad. A members’ revolt produced a petition and more than 200 members gathered outside Glenferrie Oval late one evening to protest the decision." Oh and that guy McPharlin did go on to be All Australian and one of the best full backs during his time.

The trade was also made because "Fremantle's willingness to trade the No.1 pick was rooted in the firm belief that whoever they selected would either return home at the first opportunity or worst still, not come across at all. The Dockers didn't have much going for them at that time other than a vast grip on reality."

It just annoys me that trade radio is trying to be taken seriously when Tristan Foenander aside, none of them really understand how free agency and the trade period work.
(Analysing trades with the players picked not with the picks traded, trying to trade free agents to other teams, contradicting list analysis, having a guy as their so called expert list manager who made some of the worst recruiting and drafting mistakes of all time). It's just a missed opportunity to have some guys on there that really know what they're talking about.

 

[Donkey Chop]

I'd actually do it, if Collingwood's 2nd and Mayne's salary came over for our 3rd. Park him in the VFL with a leadership role, to be used in the seniors only in dire emergency, let him soak up some cap while we pay kids peanuts, if his deal is front loaded cash him out a year early.

Would never get ticked off by the league tho.

In that instance you’re paying over $1M for a pick upgrade and a VFL player. Yuk

 

[Orange Peanut]

Not sure I’d be using the Nets as a template for success.

Now be nice.
I am talking about their current prospects, in contrast to where they have been and the seemingly hopeless position the new GM acquired not that long ago.

There are two Nets, pre 2014 & post 2014.
On court it hasn’t translated yet, but they are absolutely moving in the right direction, particularly off the back of ‘salary dumping’. D’Angelo Russell and Timofey Mozgov for Brook Lopez being the most recent example.
They will win 30-35 games this year which is incredible given where they’ve come from!!
They have a very good head of Sports Science over there and exponents of our very own KangaTech.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Spot on. Add to that the DeMarre Carroll contract the Nets took on, for which the Raptors showed their appreciation by including their first 2 picks in next year's draft. If used effectively it can be a great strategy.

 

[Orange Peanut]

Basketbore.

year of the rude

 

[tiltraise]

Ok heres my new take on the Ablett/Lang deal now with added Motlop.


Step 1- GC give Motlop a huge deal to beat Ade teams + trigger band 2 compo (19)

Step 2- Three way trade as follows

North

In: Lang, 38
Out: Swallow (pay 100% of contract), 45

Geel

In: Ablett, 45
Out: Lang, 19 (Motlop compo)

GC

In: Swallow (0%), 19
Out: Ablett, 38

 

[King Corey]

Ok heres my new take on the Ablett/Lang deal now with added Motlop.


Step 1- GC give Motlop a huge deal to beat Ade teams + trigger band 2 compo (19)

Step 2- Three way trade as follows

North

In: Lang, 38
Out: Swallow (pay 100% of contract), 45

Geel

In: Ablett, 45
Out: 19 (Motlop compo)

GC

In: Swallow (0%), 19
Out: Ablett, 38

I only looked at the North bit and if Swallow wanted to do that deal I'd be saying "where do I sign?".

 

[RobZombie]

In that instance you’re paying over $1M for a pick upgrade and a VFL player. Yuk

Yeah I'm probably being generous. Can't see any way you get a first out of it, unless it was their 2018 first + Mayne for our 2018 2nd.

OTOH, if it's actually 1.5M you possibly could get their 2018 1st for a 3rd or 4th?

 

[Orange Peanut]

I'd actually do it, if Collingwood's 2nd and Mayne's salary came over for our 3rd. Park him in the VFL with a leadership role, to be used in the seniors only in dire emergency, let him soak up some cap while we pay kids peanuts, if his deal is front loaded cash him out a year early.

Would never get ticked off by the league tho.

if you were allowed to do it, we could have made it Mullett and this year's fourth for Mayne and next year's second. Assuming Collingwood hate the Mayne contract as much as we think, that could help both of us. And potentially extend Fishy's career.

There's money we have to spend anyway, frontload him up and the contract is gone in time for 2019.

I think it will happen eventually.

 

[Tas]

It will be in my post history that I was meh on the player. Obviously proved me wrong. Don't reckon Lang would be anywhere near as cheap an acquisition.

Yeah, that is ultimately the issue, cost. I am okay if he is cheap, irrespective what I think of the various player currently.

 

[generalleftfield]

I'd consider the Mayne trade as detailed in the HS for sure. We must have buckets of cap space. You do the trade then delist and pay him out after one year and take the cap hit all in 2018. Money better spent rather than having Waite go around for a 10 game return next year.

 

[G0ther00s]

Now Lloyd referenced Cam Joyce on trade radio saying that North have claimed they're talking to some mids that the media hasn't mentioned. Followed directly by Cornes saying "Do they really have any players of value besides Ben Brown and Shaun Higgins", Lloyd "No not really, maybe they're just looking at the Darcy Lang's and Billy Hartungs, top up players that don't really change your club".

Haha so Lloyd references that we're looking to add a couple of midfielders that no one has talked about, followed by Cornes completely going off track talking about who we could trade out, instead of bringing in and potting our list whilst he's at it, followed by Lloyd mentioning players who's names have already come up in the trade period. If you weren't agreeing with my post a little earlier, you should now. What are these guys talking about.

 

[tiltraise]

http://www.nmfc.com.au/news/2017-10-12/four-more-secured-nmfc

Scott Thompson, Jarrad Waite, Ben Jacobs and Declan Mountford have all accepted one-year contract extensions until at least the end of the 2018 season.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Yeah I'm probably being generous. Can't see any way you get a first out of it, unless it was their 2018 first + Mayne for our 2018 2nd.

OTOH, if it's actually 1.5M you possibly could get their 2018 1st for a 3rd or 4th?

That’s why it won’t happen. Collingwood won’t pay what imo we’d be asking

 

[giantroo]

North Melbourne has confirmed its interest in out of contract Cat, Darcy Lang.

List manager, Michael McMahon confirmed to the club’s podcast show NMFC On Air, Lang had toured the Arden Street headquarters on Tuesday with his manager, Scott Lucas, and was ‘a player of interest’.

“We’ve had some conversations with Darcy and his management, but there’s still a bit to work through there throughout the trade period,” McMahon said.

Just 21, Lang has played 44 games for Geelong since being drafted with pick 16 in 2013. He played 10 games at Kardinia Park in 2017 averaging 16 disposals and reportedly wants to play more time in the midfield.

“Darcy is a player of interest for us. He’s out of contract at the moment,” McMahon added.

“[There are] no guarantees that Darcy will end up a North Melbourne player but that’s ongoing.”

It’s understood Geelong is open to trade Lang to another club to allow him more opportunities, but Geelong list manager Stephen Wells has also said on the record the Cats will offer him another contract should a deal fail to get through.

http://www.nmfc.com.au/news/2017-10-12/roos-look-at-lang-nmfc

 

[The Filth Wizard]

Have you just read this ridiculous trade and CANNOT find a animated NO dice to tell him what you think?

Or are you that bored of the trade period and just need to troll before you drive your head into a wall?

WELL, you've come to the right place. Look no further and come on down and get your animated response to that pure stupidity that made you cringe, or immerse yourself into a new exciting world away from the boring trade period and enter...













DOYCE TREK
He throws and gives that ****** the answer you've just been wanting to give him....antagonistic and IN YOUR FACE......with a throw of NO every single time.

So tell him what you think. Go for it.....explore new worlds and civilizations outside the NMFC Bigfooty board & to boldy go where many have gone before....but with your continuing mission, make sure you come back to where you were before.

(and yes I am a little crazy....shorter versions tomorrow and more dice to follow )

You've outdone yourself.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Now Lloyd referenced Cam Joyce on trade radio saying that North have claimed they're talking to some mids that the media hasn't mentioned. Followed directly by Cornes saying "Do they really have any players of value besides Ben Brown and Shaun Higgins", Lloyd "No not really, maybe they're just looking at the Darcy Lang's and Billy Hartungs, top up players that don't really change your club".

Haha so Lloyd references that we're looking to add a couple of midfielders that no one has talked about, followed by Cornes completely going off track talking about who we could trade out, instead of bringing in and potting our list whilst he's at it, followed by Lloyd mentioning players who's names have already come up in the trade period. If you weren't agreeing with my post a little earlier, you should now. What are these guys talking about.

Do yourself a favour and turn it off. It’s rubbish. They talk garbage.