List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Bandicoot]

Would replace JPK nicely

So you think that a guy who can't even get a game at Geelong would replace a multiple all Australian, club champion and 250 game veteran.
Wake up!!!

 

[Bandicoot]

I agree on your last point. He still looks very good against certain midfields. I recall him doing a number on Adelaide and North earlier in the year. He was dominant against Melbourne in Cairns. They are all relatively one-dimensional midfields though. I thought he was exposed badly against the faster and more dynamic midfields. He struggled against Western Bulldogs, looked far too slow against Brisbane and couldn't do much beyond hack kick clearances against Port. I just don't see how it's going to get better.

The issue is the lack of alternatives. Hewett was injured this year so didn't get to capitalise on JPK's absence. Florent was given the opportunity but did not take it with both hands. Rowbottom did take that opportunity but is just a kid. It left Horse's hands tied as far as who he could rely on in the middle. Who knows, maybe his plan was to reduce the role JPK played in the midfield all along, but things didn't go as expected and he had no choice. I certainly think we looked just as good in there without him as we did when he returned, so I do not see a gloomy vision of a post-JPK midfield that others seem to have.

So obviously you believe that JPK is past his use by date as the days of the big bodied midfielder who lacks pace is over. You also put Parker into this same category.
So if that's the case, we may as well also retire Cripps, Cunnington, Ward and to a lesser extent M Crouch. As has been said every year since day dot, our game can suit players of all sizes and skills. This is why we have inside mids and outside runners. The inside mid's main role is to distribute the ball to the outside runners. JPK still does that better than most yet people here are happy to pension him off in place of others who can't do his job anywhere near as well as he still does.
Not every midfielder has to be a Dangerfield or Bontempelli.

 

[Punts]

He could be an a-grader.. but seems his primary motive is cash. He seems a bit unsettled off field - criminal allegations & his dad being his manager (never a good thing in sport)
He seems the sort of player that at the end of his next 4 year contract he'll leave that club for bigger dollars. Not what the Swans (or any team) wants
Im happy with Heeney & Haywood as our medium forwards,, with Parker and co resting forward (bummed that E Taylor didn't work)

getting out of Melbourne might be a would of good

Far better player than Hayward and just as good as Heeney imo

 

[Cadsky]

So you think that a guy who can't even get a game at Geelong would replace a multiple all Australian, club champion and 250 game veteran.
Wake up!!!

Clearly I was talking about in a year or two when Kennedy retires.

 

[Bandicoot]

No player is bigger than the game or club and all rides come to an end. I just treasure Kennedy for what he has done and is doing for the club and I don’t really want to contemplate it’s end but I know it will happen somewhere. Inevitable.This is professional sport and the measure is always what any one player contributes to the team. If it’s no longer enough then the ride ends as it should as there is another younger version of Kennedy wanting his first step. Horse and Kennedy will work it out between them and I’m fine with that. I’ll just watch and savour

Some people have been saying the same thing about Burgoyne. "Probably got 1 year left". They started saying that 5 years ago.

 

[SGBeach]

here's a hypothetical
p3 + Campbell & Gulden
P McCartin
Pruess
Brodie

Draft
We need points to avoid to big a deficit in 2021
We may trade p3 for p5 or p6? depends where we are confidant Campbell bid will come, and which player we want.
- The player we want is the player that we judge to have the ability to live and want to play in Sydney. If that player is tipped to go around p7-8, then why not trade p3 + points for p6. Theres an extra 500ish points.
- p22 can be traded for later picks to give an extra 200ish points
- Trade out Ronke & Thurlow.. for approx p55 & 65 - an extra 300ish points
total an extra 1000ish points +p54 & p56. Theres plenty more options to get picks and points (no future picks have been used), its just an example of how points can be gained.

Trade
P McCartin
- he's free (picks wise) and won't take much salary cap
- the right age demographic for the next 6 year run at finals
- high injury risk, but 2021 while Buddy and Reid are still on the books is a good year to take a risk. If he fails, there's no great loss to salary cap or the opportunity draft picks offer.
- former p1, so obviously has a massive upside if all goes well.
- mental/physical/emotional health.. Thats up to him, the docs and the people closest to him. If people havnt suffered an injury which has taken their life away, they dont know what hes going through and should reserve their judgements.
Pruess
- We need a ruck!
- hes big and can play, has a lot to offer us,
- the right age to play for the next 6 years while chasing finals
- probably affordable, picks and salary
- future 3rd? 2020 p22 for Pruess + 47 & 62??
Brodie
- offers something different to our midfields future which is made up of smaller, quicker type players. Diversity is good
- probably more affordable than RCD or Constable, Is also 2 years older than those two, and, has as much or maybe more upside.
- future 2nd for Brodie + p35 (Suns will want future picks, they're 2-3 academy kids for free this year)

at the end of all that we would have
- 3 x young guns from the draft
- a Ruck (essential)
- a potential gun key forward
- a potential depth player - gun inside mid
- enough points to do it all
- 2021 1st and 4th round picks (with plenty of options to get more picks in next years draft)

 

[Bandicoot]

I will not get personal in my response. I would simply note three things.
1. Over a stupidly long life commencing with having my noggin baptised with fine brew in the members' bar at South, I have been rusted on.
2. I never tell others how to support our Club and would appreciate not being told in return.
3. Play the argument not the person making it. Sure I have dust ups here with Tedeski BruceFromBalnarring Jewelsbon and many, many others (and elsewhere IRL) but I have never questioned their right to support our mob.

I would agree that my response was "over the top" and I apologise for that.
As a Swans supporter who was a member of the 1970 cheer squad, I was just disgusted with your total lack of respect for a club legend and wrote what I wrote out of anger.

 

[Punts]

No way imo do we go Mccartin

Just don’t think it’s even worth the risk.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I would agree that my response was "over the top" and I apologise for that.
As a Swans supporter who was a member of the 1970 cheer squad, I was just disgusted with your total lack of respect for a club legend and wrote what I wrote out of anger.

Fair enough. We all get cranky.

While it does not really matter I have immense respect for jpk as a person, player and legend of the Club. My views remain as they are about him moving on.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

Having Kennedy play a differently-balanced role in the side is far better option than to just trade him imo. I certainly agree that he needs to start playing less inside minutes so Florent, Rowbottom, Blakey, Stephens can all continue stepping up, but you don't just jettison him, particularly given we're still a developing side who needs senior leadership. If we were on the verge of a premiership and Kennedy being gone would facilitate a fuller crack, then I'd be for it (nobody is bigger than the club after all). But right now, we're focused on developing.

The way to make that happen is to lessen his load by helping him play another role and utilise his outstanding smarts, leadership and durability in a different way. I'd do that by relieving him of the co-captaincy (Parker and Rampe are each capable of doing the job on their own let alone as part of a triad) and increasing his training in the pre-season as a forward ahead of playing a more balanced forward/midfield role for the year. David Mundy has done it at Freo, why not our boy Kennedy?

He's still well and truly good enough to play seniors and I'd back him to add a string or two to his bow if given the space and time to work on his own game more rather than having to focus on leading the team.

He's actually very good overhead and a nice set shot. Can't see why he can't spend more time forward this year.

 

[SGBeach]

He's actually very good overhead and a nice set shot. Can't see why he can't spend more time forward this year.

spent time forward early in his career.. and Im sure the young forward line would like him being around (especially if Buddy and/or Reid is not there)

 

[SGBeach]

getting out of Melbourne might be a would of good

Far better player than Hayward and just as good as Heeney imo

maybe ?? personally think he's bit of a d**khead, but dont know him.
Taking into consideration the extra money he would demand, is he that much better than Haywood?

 

[Wolfgang West]

Because of the bolded. Let's not act like we haven't shafted club champions before. ROK spent pretty much his last year in the NEAFL. Teddy in the NEAFL. Jack in the NEAFL. Hanners traded. It's how the sport goes. Spare me the high horse.

You do not trade a Club Champion the ilk of Kennedy for a late ****ing draft pick. Will go down in the club's history along side the likes of Skilton,Kelly,Goodes,Bedford Round,Kirk and the like as the greatest contributors to what symbolises a true Blood. I have been with you all the way with the opinion of his lack of speed and mobility being detrimental to the sides ball movement and setting up attacking options and also his lack of dexterity costing us at centre bounces but FFS you do not throw a JPK on the scrap heap. You make a decision if he can contribute in another role or you have a frank discussion and try and persuade him to call time on a Legendary Swans career.
Oh ! And on his way out the door you get on your hands and knees and bow to him and thank him for carrying us on those well worn shoulders. Man has been a Leviathan. Like your contributions but ****ing please !!!

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

getting out of Melbourne might be a would of good

Far better player than Hayward and just as good as Heeney imo

Would not touch DaGoogoo with a 3 condom'd pole.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Greg Williams was one of the greatest players I have seen. His skill set was a vast up grade on all mids since.

JPK is a champion of the Sydney Swans. He would also admit there was no comparison.

And a ****ing mercenary. Something Kennedy is not. No comparison.

 

[Kiama Chris]

That's why I think he has only one more year. But I could be wrong.

I think you are probably right.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

And a ****ing mercenary. Something Kennedy is not. No comparison.

Not questioning this in it for himself attitude at all. It always struck me as ironic how much David RJ and Diesel hated each other. Both ended up at the Filth for totally different reasons. DRJ despite shifting Clubs was a team man.

 

[Wolfgang West]

A couple of things regarding JPK:
He's a great player but when appointed sole captain he did not do a good job. Parker and Rampe provide what he doesn't, support. He leads from the front but he is a warrior, not a general.
By some accounts he does not have a lot of EQ. To me, he shows few signs of a bent towards coaching. I doubt a 1+1 deal would be attractive.
I believe all champions deserve, and mostly get, a gentle tap on the shoulder when their time is up. Pretty sure this will happen with JPK.
Reckon he has probably one more season of best 22, probably in a slightly different role, still utilising his strengths, but getting more stoppage minutes into the younger brigade.
Great player who will see his time out here at the Swans.

In your opinion then what is the difference between him and Paul Kelly ? Kelly was the warrior type leader as well. Probably one of the greatest Captains this game has seen. Agree about Kennedy's tenure as captain not being great but it was at a late stage of his career and unfortunately imo this club has chosen the multiple captain model which was already ingrained in the club and he was left holding the baby so to speak. He found it difficult but in no way should it alter his legacy of what he has added from a leadership perspective.

 

[Kiama Chris]

here's a hypothetical
p3 + Campbell & Gulden
P McCartin
Pruess
Brodie

Draft
We need points to avoid to big a deficit in 2021
We may trade p3 for p5 or p6? depends where we are confidant Campbell bid will come, and which player we want.
- The player we want is the player that we judge to have the ability to live and want to play in Sydney. If that player is tipped to go around p7-8, then why not trade p3 + points for p6. Theres an extra 500ish points.
- p22 can be traded for later picks to give an extra 200ish points
- Trade out Ronke & Thurlow.. for approx p55 & 65 - an extra 300ish points
total an extra 1000ish points +p54 & p56. Theres plenty more options to get picks and points (no future picks have been used), its just an example of how points can be gained.

Trade
P McCartin
- he's free (picks wise) and won't take much salary cap
- the right age demographic for the next 6 year run at finals
- high injury risk, but 2021 while Buddy and Reid are still on the books is a good year to take a risk. If he fails, there's no great loss to salary cap or the opportunity draft picks offer.
- former p1, so obviously has a massive upside if all goes well.
- mental/physical/emotional health.. Thats up to him, the docs and the people closest to him. If people havnt suffered an injury which has taken their life away, they dont know what hes going through and should reserve their judgements.
Pruess
- We need a ruck!
- hes big and can play, has a lot to offer us,
- the right age to play for the next 6 years while chasing finals
- probably affordable, picks and salary
- future 3rd? 2020 p22 for Pruess + 47 & 62??
Brodie
- offers something different to our midfields future which is made up of smaller, quicker type players. Diversity is good
- probably more affordable than RCD or Constable, Is also 2 years older than those two, and, has as much or maybe more upside.
- future 2nd for Brodie + p35 (Suns will want future picks, they're 2-3 academy kids for free this year)

at the end of all that we would have
- 3 x young guns from the draft
- a Ruck (essential)
- a potential gun key forward
- a potential depth player - gun inside mid
- enough points to do it all
- 2021 1st and 4th round picks (with plenty of options to get more picks in next years draft)

Don't necessarily agree 100% but great to see some real thought going into it.

 

[Kiama Chris]

In your opinion then what is the difference between him and Paul Kelly ? Kelly was the warrior type leader as well. Probably one of the greatest Captains this game has seen. Agree about Kennedy's tenure as captain not being great but it was at a late stage of his career and unfortunately imo this club has chosen the multiple captain model which was already ingrained in the club and he was left holding the baby so to speak. He found it difficult but in no way should it alter his legacy of what he has added from a leadership perspective.

Had the joy of briefly meeting Kells in the late 90's. On very limited evidence I think his people skills were better than JPK's. To get the full picture it's also good to see who is in the support cast.
My personal opinion is that when Macca and Kizza "retired" they stepped back (rightly) and a vacuum was created that JPK was not able to fill alone.
No criticism of any individual, player or coach, is intended or implied. These are things that happen in an organisation or team.
And yes, Kells was indeed a warrior!

 

[SSwans2011]

**** De Goey. Delisting ET, as people rightfully want us to, just to target him would be 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

 

[SSwans2011]

I reckon calling Kennedy's reign as captain "disappointing" is harsh. It just so happened to coincide with our list's inevitable fall down the ladder, but we've been far from disgraced in that time.

He dragged us across the line in that fantastic comeback victory against Geelong in 2018, practically single-handedly beating Danger, Selwood, Ablett, and Kelly, and has stood up in big moments (i.e. his bomb from outside 50 in the must-win game against Richmond in 2017).

 

[Wolftone]

I think these players will probably go:

Reynolds: his inability to make any kind of impact due to soft tissue injury have sealed his fate

Maibaum: Injury may have done for Jack too. Acl last year killed his career off and not playing many games this year in the Scratch matches may have sealed his fate. Pity as I think he is a calm fullback in the old style who has great ability.

Knoll: His ball drop says it all really. Ball drop like a drunken sailor. Lacks skills in the essential areas of disposal and decision making. Can take a big grab and ruck skills are good. But just not quite good enough to move to the next level

Gray: His form this year was not only poor it was terrible for an experienced player. If he wanted to make a mark he did, just not the right one.

Stodardt: just too much about his decision making is cringe worthy. He is not quite there. The thing is he has been with us a few years now and if he hasn't made it yet and others, namely McInnerney and Ling, have gone past him it is probably time to let him go.

Rowles: Not even mentioned in dispatches. Gone.

These players would be close to delisting:

Ronke: Being injured has not helped his case this year and may be a victim of reduced lists if that happens

McLean: Hasn't done a lot wrong. A bit short for ruck and not quite good or mobile enough as a tall forward. He would normally be kept as depth but reduced lists will kill depth

Elijah Taylor: Such ability, such skill. Sad really. His terrible indiscretion may see him delisted. I hope there is some counselling he can get to stop his violent outbursts. But the Swans do not suffer violent offenders and I cannot see him being retained. The other thing is he still may get a custodial sentence yet and that would end his AFL aspirations. I know others have come back from those circumstances but I doubt Swans will tolerate his behaviour. They have not before. The other thing is the AFL may cancel his playing Lisence

Reid: This is going to be contraversal but I think we are looking for one draft and one trade key forwards. Sam does not figure in our future and his form has not just been iffy it has been downright disgraceful. If he had not been an experienced key forward he would have been playing scratch matches all year.

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[Wolftone]

I like all of this with the exception of the pick 3, which I hope we use on a mid.

We don't need a mid desperately. We need a key forward and the best prospects this year are key forwards. We get Campbell and Gulden, there are your mids. Why is it that everyone wants mids when our deficiencies lay elsewhere, nely ruck and key forward

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[Wolftone]

Speaking of big trade targets... Dayne Beams.

This will solve our draft point dilemma without giving up anyone of value or next years picks.
Probably something more along the lines of Collingwood paying half his salary whilst giving a 2nd rounder or 2 decent 3rd rounders. Also I think his contract expires when Buddy's does so when we are looking for big fish we'll have plenty of bait. To clarify I don't expect Beams to even be our water boy it'd just be his name on the books. -400k salary cap (x2) -> for Gulden. We're going to have cough up something for him, may as well be something we're not using.
Thoughts?

The guy has been sidelined for a whole season with the Black dog. He isn't getting any younger, I think I would give him a miss

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