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imadodgyumpire said:
- Only Heikki Kovalainen has genuinely underperformed relative to Hamilton. Bottas hasn't beaten him, but has shown some potential and is not finished.

- If it weren't for a blown engine in Malaysia, Rosberg would've won a championship eventually. Hamilton picked up 4 junk time wins at the end of the season, as the 28 point difference between 4 1st & 2nd places didn't make any difference to the championship position in which Rosberg had the upper hand. Rosberg drove according to that.

- Referring to an exchange you had previously with I think Roland? He's had the easiest path to F1 to the start of his career, and it's still the case with the exception of Verstappen. He's always had the benefit knowing that if he reached a certain performance, he'd progress. He's never had to face the prospect of winning series in lower but not progressing. Other drivers have had the opportunity, but other drivers haven't done it while junior programs were unproven, and others are better off not being part of driver program.

Even Hamilton's first F1 season was a speculative one, which hasn't happened to anyone except for Damon Hill.

- The performance between McLaren and Ferrari in 2007-08 was pretty close, so it's questionable whether the McLaren was the best car. But even accounting for that, this period since 14 no one has driven comprehensively the best car in F1 history in both terms of races and seasons.

There! I held back. But it was too much this time!
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Was more referring to the world championship years where his teammate that season wasn't that close. I am well aware of his later McLaren years where he was even (or worse) compared to Button but like you said, since it was a fight for fourth-ish and beyond it wasn't really that critical. Bottas has talent obviously but over the course of a season his temperament and consistency is still very much for discussion.

2016 - well, if his engine didn't go I am not convinced Rosberg would have beaten him in a straight fight in the last four races. Dunno who Roland is or what he said, sorry.

Hamilton is indeed #blessed to never really have to worry about racking up wins in lower formulas but like with Verstappen true talent rises to the top no matter how they get started. Not sure what you meant by a 'speculative' season for Hamilton's debut - he was in the hunt for the drivers championship up until the final race of the year.
 
Forward Press said:
Was more referring to the world championship years where his teammate that season wasn't that close. I am well aware of his later McLaren years where he was even (or worse) compared to Button but like you said, since it was a fight for fourth-ish and beyond it wasn't really that critical. Bottas has talent obviously but over the course of a season his temperament and consistency is still very much for discussion.
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Forward Press said:
2016 - well, if his engine didn't go I am not convinced Rosberg would have beaten him in a straight fight in the last four races. Dunno who Roland is or what he said, sorry.
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I'm now just pointing out what I noticed and remember from the end of that season.

- Rosberg never tried to attempt to threaten Hamilton in those last 4 races. Even at Abu Dhabi when Hamilton was going deliberately slower to goad Rosberg into an attempt to pass.

- But whenever 2nd place was threatened form behind, Rosberg always made sure he did what was necessary to make it his position.

- Imo, since there was "no harm, no foul" situation at the start of the Mexican GP as far as the championship went, penalties to Hamilton and Verstappen for first corner mistakes didn't occur. Had the points situation been closer, those guys would've been done over.

Forward Press said:
Hamilton is indeed #blessed to never really have to worry about racking up wins in lower formulas but like with Verstappen true talent rises to the top no matter how they get started.
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Their talent may have been rewarded. But from my view following other drivers up the ranks, I'm not sure that generalisation can be made.

I was talking of the off track stuff. There have been heaps of drivers that have not progressed (lost opportunities, sponsorships) in racing due to factors nothing to do with driving. Sometimes due to nothing other than a misinterpretation. Hamilton and Verstappen have effectively been shielded from that.

Forward Press said:
Not sure what you meant by a 'speculative' season for Hamilton's debut - he was in the hunt for the drivers championship up until the final race of the year.
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I was meaning what I remember during the 06 season. McLaren weren't particularly sure how well Hamilton would've done. It was a scenario that is Hamilton had a season/s like what Kovalainen did, it wouldn't have been as detrimental to his career as it was with Kovalainen.
 
imadodgyumpire said:
I'm now just pointing out what I noticed and remember from the end of that season.

- Rosberg never tried to attempt to threaten Hamilton in those last 4 races. Even at Abu Dhabi when Hamilton was going deliberately slower to goad Rosberg into an attempt to pass.

- But whenever 2nd place was threatened form behind, Rosberg always made sure he did what was necessary to make it his position.

- Imo, since there was "no harm, no foul" situation at the start of the Mexican GP as far as the championship went, penalties to Hamilton and Verstappen for first corner mistakes didn't occur. Had the points situation been closer, those guys would've been done over.



Their talent may have been rewarded. But from my view following other drivers up the ranks, I'm not sure that generalisation can be made.

I was talking of the off track stuff. There have been heaps of drivers that have not progressed (lost opportunities, sponsorships) in racing due to factors nothing to do with driving. Sometimes due to nothing other than a misinterpretation. Hamilton and Verstappen have effectively been shielded from that.

I was meaning what I remember during the 06 season. McLaren weren't particularly sure how well Hamilton would've done. It was a scenario that is Hamilton had a season/s like what Kovalainen did, it wouldn't have been as detrimental to his career as it was with Kovalainen.
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I did also say that Rosberg was the only teammate that took it up to him during his title years. You are completely correct in that Rosberg was canny enough to do what he had to do - all he needed was to finish 2nd in the last 4 races to lock it up, and he duly did so.

I must confess I don't really follow the lower formulas very much, but in my view once a driver makes it to F1, even if it's with a shitbox team, they do get noticed if they are a supreme talent and although sponsors certainly helps, talent is needed to retain a seat. We can mock Sergio Perez and Lance Stroll as pay drivers but they have eventually proven themselves as fast. Drivers like Fernando Alonso and Michael Schumacher were picked up from back markers, as an example. Happy to be corrected and have a debate about it.

With regards to that last point, for sure. There is a lot of pressure on rookie drivers to succeed straight away, history is littered with promising rookies having a middling debut and then being tossed away. For all the leg ups Hamilton got, I think he would have petered out if his debut season was average.
 
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I just realised that I have never wondered about Bottas' love interests.

Naturally I couldn't help but find out more after FR0GGY 's comment.

Apparently they got together not long after his divorce. Good to see him moving on quickly, I say :thumbsu:
 
Anyway what are people predictions for this one?

I only found out this was even on an hour or so ago.

And then I only found out it is basically last week 2.0, same venue and everything.

I made a tidy sum on Norris last week, anybody give him much chance to repeat the heroics?

Seemed like a few teams had failures and problems last week, is one week really long enough for them to iron out the gremlins?
 
mouncey2franklin said:
I just realised that I have never wondered about Bottas' love interests.

Naturally I couldn't help but find out more after FR0GGY 's comment.

Apparently they got together not long after his divorce. Good to see him moving on quickly, I say :thumbsu:
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I knew of her being a cyclist on the world stage but didn’t realise they were dating.
 

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Forward Press said:
I must confess I don't really follow the lower formulas very much, but in my view once a driver makes it to F1, even if it's with a shitbox team, they do get noticed if they are a supreme talent and although sponsors certainly helps, talent is needed to retain a seat. We can mock Sergio Perez and Lance Stroll as pay drivers but they have eventually proven themselves as fast. Drivers like Fernando Alonso and Michael Schumacher were picked up from back markers, as an example. Happy to be corrected and have a debate about it.
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I pretty complicated and pretty hard to type in a post. The political factor in junior formulas is rife. It's contributes to why I don't like Mark Webber, and why a lot of people in kart racing are not wishing Jack Doohan the best.

Just look at Webber's results in formula ford compared to Jason Bright? It doesn't make sense how their careers turned out.

Sometimes guys have to be allowed to be shit at the top level before coming good. Off the top of my head, there's no way Mick Doohan and Jamie Whincup could've had great careers off their first year in motogp/supercars.

Forward Press said:
With regards to that last point, for sure. There is a lot of pressure on rookie drivers to succeed straight away, history is littered with promising rookies having a middling debut and then being tossed away. For all the leg ups Hamilton got, I think he would have petered out if his debut season was average.
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Nup. I remember now, Honda wanted him.

It's part of the reason why McLaren did run him even if they weren't sure how he'd go, to prevent Honda from recruiting him.

I remember reading about Hamilton as a karter in the late 90s in the odd occasion I'd buy Autosport. He was part of the McLaren-MB development as a young kid, which wasn't normal for pre-pubescents.

Honda were crap as I presume you'd remember? Button and Barrichello's careers could've gone either way. Honda shown interests to rejuvenate the team, went for Hamilton. Having won GP2 and therefore having nowhere to go, that kind of forced McLaren to act.

If he had a crap year with McLaren in 07, Honda still would've taken him. Then he'd have won the championship with Brawn. Then he'd have raced for MB!...
 
mouncey2franklin said:
Anyway what are people predictions for this one?

I only found out this was even on an hour or so ago.

And then I only found out it is basically last week 2.0, same venue and everything.

I made a tidy sum on Norris last week, anybody give him much chance to repeat the heroics?

Seemed like a few teams had failures and problems last week, is one week really long enough for them to iron out the gremlins?
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I predict Danny's engine will blow before midnight and I will have an earlier night than expected.
 

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