Training 2020 Preseason

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And we are yet to see if Ballenden's kicking efficiency will stand up to the pressure at senior level. I don't see he and McStay competing for the same spot. More Ballenden and the Big O. Having said that, there are only a certain number of KP spots and if McStay doesn't start to produce goals at a greater rate he may become a luxury we can't afford.
 
Nunez said:
Ballenden is a seriously impressive field kick for his size. McStay is too when he's not thinking about it, but Ballenden is more consistent in that area from what I've seen of both. They have different strengths as KPFs though. Ballenden is a lead up forward with great hands and a very nice kick. He can also jump in the ruck when needed and float down back. Like a bigger Gunston.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of that. Ballenden would be in the same class of field kick as Browny was. Absolutely elite for a big man. McStay is pretty good but not at the same level. McStay is a bit slower, does not have the same penetration and is not as consistent.

Where I disagree is in the marking. Inconsistency I think is a major issue for Ballenden and his marking. He can take a nice mark but he drops too many he should take and does not take a lot of contested stuff.

Ballenden has not had a lot of ruck experience and I think they really need to get a significant amount of work into that area this year. For me if he is going to make it it is going to be as a backup ruck and so he needs more opportunity to learn the skills he will need.
 
We liked to clear out the forward line last year and let the smalls go to work. Dropping McStay for a medium option like Woller or McFayden would work into that. Both would add different things if they got a chance and Big O and Hipwood would still be big targets down forward when we wanted a conventional set up.
 

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Quigley said:
I agree with most of that. Ballenden would be in the same class of field kick as Browny was. Absolutely elite for a big man. McStay is pretty good but not at the same level. McStay is a bit slower, does not have the same penetration and is not as consistent.

Where I disagree is in the marking. Inconsistency I think is a major issue for Ballenden and his marking. He can take a nice mark but he drops too many he should take and does not take a lot of contested stuff.

Ballenden has not had a lot of ruck experience and I think they really need to get a significant amount of work into that area this year. For me if he is going to make it it is going to be as a backup ruck and so he needs more opportunity to learn the skills he will need.
Click to expand...

Appreciate your opinion mate. I agree that his best position definitely looks to be that backup ruck/forward role. Hopefully he smashes the Tasmanian match Sims and gets a chance to test himself in the 1s.
 
KissKiss said:
McStays field kicking is pretty good I thought. How much better is Ballenden?
Click to expand...
Top of the class in the draft combine, for a big lanky kid then he was a lumbering giraffe that kicked like a seasoned veteran half back. Nothing has changed he kicking by foot is top class. BUT we must all take not in an undefeated NEAFL side all players had more time then they will get at the top level. It's hard to compare players and with McStay I think most of us think about his goal kicking and think "oh what crap". Around the ground he is ok, cant recall McStay making too many errors. Ballandene however seems to, look more, sees the opportunity and can pinpoint a pass more regularly than most. It just shows up when he has the ball he is good by foot.
 
KissKiss said:
McStays field kicking is pretty good I thought. How much better is Ballenden?
Click to expand...

Hmmm let's not take kicking at goal, I had a look back - same same.

2019 Ballandene 15 goals 12 points; McStay 21 goals 16 points.
2018 Ballendene 19 goal 17 points; McStay 22 goals 18 points.

Same argument for both Balandene we used on McStay a couple of years back, plays both back and forward and in the ruck during each game. It's his field kicking that show out although these stats don't show any difference.
 
Quigley said:
We liked to clear out the forward line last year and let the smalls go to work. Dropping McStay for a medium option like Woller or McFayden would work into that. Both would add different things if they got a chance and Big O and Hipwood would still be big targets down forward when we wanted a conventional set up.
Click to expand...

We also liked McStay crashing packs up on the wing when we were slowed down bringing the footy out of the backline.
 
Clarkythelion said:
Hmmm let's not take kicking at goal, I had a look back - same same.

2019 Ballandene 15 goals 12 points; McStay 21 goals 16 points.
2018 Ballendene 19 goal 17 points; McStay 22 goals 18 points.

Same argument for both Balandene we used on McStay a couple of years back, plays both back and forward and in the ruck during each game. It's his field kicking that show out although these stats don't show any difference.
Click to expand...
Although its hard to do, I'd love to see a bit deeper in the goal kicking stats. Would love a sort of expected accuracy or something. McStay's numbers like that dont look terrible, but we know that he has missed a few absolute sitters and has a few out on the fulls as well. He "should" have been better than those numbers
 
KissKiss said:
Although its hard to do, I'd love to see a bit deeper in the goal kicking stats. Would love a sort of expected accuracy or something. McStay's numbers like that dont look terrible, but we know that he has missed a few absolute sitters and has a few out on the fulls as well. He "should" have been better than those numbers
Click to expand...
At a guess - 10-12 of those points were probably from positions that he shouldn’t have missed.
From my memory, all of the shots you thought he won’t kick, he kicked and the ones he should have kicked, he missed.
And then there were the complete shockers that missed the lot.
Which makes you think that it is all in his head.
 
jackess said:
We also liked McStay crashing packs up on the wing when we were slowed down bringing the footy out of the backline.
Click to expand...
Which helps to highlight not only the specific role he has been asked to play for the side but also that he spends considerably more time away from goal than many key forwards.
By way of illustration, last season he ranked well in contested marking (7th overall with 42) which compares pretty favourably with, for example, Jack Darling (44), Tom Hawkins (38), Mihocek (35), Jeremy Cameron (31) and Harry Himmelberg (26), from similar numbers of games. But he takes far fewer marks inside the forward 50 (31 as against Cameron 75, Hawkins 70 and Darling 51) and has many fewer score involvements as a result (92, ranked 142nd). In contrast, Jeremey Cameron was ranked first in score involvements (186), Tom Hawkins 3rd and Darling 20th. And of course Cameron kicked 76 goals, Darling 59 and Hawkins 56.
In short, playing deep forward and scoring goals hasn't been Dan's primary role, at least to date. Nor was his inefficient goal kicking such a problem given our other scoring options. But if Cameron, Hipwood etc struggle to score or they miss games through injury and McStay doesn't start to maximise the scoring opportunities that he has, Fages may be forced to look at other options.
 

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HERALDSUN.COM.AU locked article

Cam Rayner says Brisbane’s youngsters are ready to step up

JANUARY 22, 2020

The key objectives at Brisbane’s week-long pre-season camp in Hobart is to develop leadership skills, build relationships across the playing list and staff, and to imbed the club’s new recruits into the Lions culture.

Young gun Cam Rayner says the Lions are ticking all the boxes with “generation next’ stepping forward.

“It’s pretty exciting to see that young core come together and really turn into something for the club,’’ he said.

“The club has got great leaders, starting with Zorks (captain Dayne Zorko), who are great at guiding us along.

“These camps are a great opportunity for us to advance our own leadership skills, speak up a little bit more and try new roles, and it’s great to see the young boys come through.”

Rayner – the No.1 draft pick in 2017 – is hoping to spend more time in the midfield in 2020 after being stationed in the forward line for most of his first two campaigns.

“I feel like these first couple of years have been learning years for me. I’ve got to know the game plan, got to know what it’s like to play AFL footy,’’ he said.

“I’ve been pretty lucky, Fages (senior coach Chris Fagan) has stuck by me, which has been good.

“(The midfield) is something we are going to try and do a bit more of, and spit forward at times, so finding that balance is what I’d like to do.’’

Brisbane will have their second match simulation on Thursday after having a competitive hitout on the weekend.

Mitch Robinson and Marcus Adams are expected to play after sitting out the first contest.
 
tony said:
HERALDSUN.COM.AU locked article

Cam Rayner says Brisbane’s youngsters are ready to step up

JANUARY 22, 2020

The key objectives at Brisbane’s week-long pre-season camp in Hobart is to develop leadership skills, build relationships across the playing list and staff, and to imbed the club’s new recruits into the Lions culture.

Young gun Cam Rayner says the Lions are ticking all the boxes with “generation next’ stepping forward.

“It’s pretty exciting to see that young core come together and really turn into something for the club,’’ he said.

“The club has got great leaders, starting with Zorks (captain Dayne Zorko), who are great at guiding us along.

“These camps are a great opportunity for us to advance our own leadership skills, speak up a little bit more and try new roles, and it’s great to see the young boys come through.”

Rayner – the No.1 draft pick in 2017 – is hoping to spend more time in the midfield in 2020 after being stationed in the forward line for most of his first two campaigns.

“I feel like these first couple of years have been learning years for me. I’ve got to know the game plan, got to know what it’s like to play AFL footy,’’ he said.

“I’ve been pretty lucky, Fages (senior coach Chris Fagan) has stuck by me, which has been good.

“(The midfield) is something we are going to try and do a bit more of, and spit forward at times, so finding that balance is what I’d like to do.’’

Brisbane will have their second match simulation on Thursday after having a competitive hitout on the weekend.

Mitch Robinson and Marcus Adams are expected to play after sitting out the first contest.
Click to expand...
Interest peak piqued
 
Some impressions from practice match simulation... I've copied and pasted what he said in the dot points



  • Sam Skinner was awesome as a third tall forward. Clean overhead and very competitive.
  • Ah Chee and Birchall fitted in exceptionally at half-back.
  • The 'A' team midfield of Neale, Lyons, Ellis-Yolmen terrific. CEY very powerful.
  • Mathieson the 'B' team's best there and knocking on the door.
  • Cam Rayner is FIT. Clean when he played forward and then got good time on-ball. Winning one centre wing contest and then linked up second later at half-forward to kick a goal on-the-run was very eye-catching.
  • All new draftees participated on the B team. Quite liked one or two things from Brock Smith.
  • Didn't notice Starcevich much but was hard to follow as players werent wearing #
  • Hippy is a bit stronger (hard to notice, but it's there). He was pretty quiet though, kicked one or two.
  • Coleman did some nice things. Half/small forward on the 'B' team, so not a ton of opps, but was clean when he was around the ball.
  • Mitch Robbo sat out (calf, but not serious), so it was Hugh and Bailey (on the wings) mainly with J.Berry and occasionally Zorko on the wings.
Razor Ray was the umpire funnily enough
 
CarterS said:
Some impressions from practice match simulation... I've copied and pasted what he said in the dot points



  • Sam Skinner was awesome as a third tall forward. Clean overhead and very competitive.
  • Ah Chee and Birchall fitted in exceptionally at half-back.
  • The 'A' team midfield of Neale, Lyons, Ellis-Yolmen terrific. CEY very powerful.
  • Mathieson the 'B' team's best there and knocking on the door.
  • Cam Rayner is FIT. Clean when he played forward and then got good time on-ball. Winning one centre wing contest and then linked up second later at half-forward to kick a goal on-the-run was very eye-catching.
  • All new draftees participated on the B team. Quite liked one or two things from Brock Smith.
  • Didn't notice Starcevich much but was hard to follow as players werent wearing #
  • Hippy is a bit stronger (hard to notice, but it's there). He was pretty quiet though, kicked one or two.
  • Coleman did some nice things. Half/small forward on the 'B' team, so not a ton of opps, but was clean when he was around the ball.
  • Mitch Robbo sat out (calf, but not serious), so it was Hugh and Bailey (on the wings) mainly with J.Berry and occasionally Zorko on the wings.
Razor Ray was the umpire funnily enough
Click to expand...


Thanks for the summary. Out of curiosity, who were the fresh faces in the A squad other than CEY? Did Ely get another look in?
 
Good to hear about Skinner. He seems the most likely to offer an upgrade on McStay playing the same role. If McStay doesn't improve.
 

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