Analysis 2021 trade thread

[bungalow_bill]

If only the Tigers had a mini rebuild after the 2016 finals. Think of the draft picks they could have got for Cotchin or Martin.

 

[blueiris]

Thoughts on Jordan Sweet could be a cheap young ruckman option for the Lions

 

[Clarkythelion]

Anyone think it's time for a mini rebuild? What we're doing isn't enough to win a flag, so why not accept that and try and extend our premiership window? Rumours suggest Neale could go back to Perth, so why not facilitate that while his currency is strong? With the picks we can get from him, we can upgrade on this year's draft order while still trading in for a future first so we can secure Fletcher and Ashcroft for next year. I like Neale and I was as distraught as everyone else when I heard these rumours, but look at our how we played without him this year. He's easily our best player, but we can play just as good without him as we can with him. Neale going would also open Starce and Rayner into the midfield, while answerth can take Starce's old role. Birchall going allows for Madden and Coleman to gain more senior games as well. These subtle changes coupled with the possibility of Roberson and Prior gaining more games could actually set us up for a better premiership tilt in the future.

I think to win a Grand final you have to have some luck and pretty much a complete healthy list. We had Hipwood and Rayner out then McStay and Payne were injured early in finals. With those 4 playing, fully fit in the finals we are a different side. I like Fullerton but say compared to Jackson at Melbourne he has some work to do. A fully fit team and some tweaks or another year of development in the Rucks and we can win it. I don't thin a re-build or even a mini-rebuild is needed.

 

[JasRulz63]

Thoughts on Jordan Sweet could be a cheap young ruckman option for the Lions

Issue will be convincing him to come to the same position he's in currently at the Dogs. Will still probably be a back-up like he is at the Dogs.

 

[Clarkythelion]

If only the Tigers had a mini rebuild after the 2016 finals. Think of the draft picks they could have got for Cotchin or Martin.

I guess it's about choice.

Supposedly after our first 2 Grand Finals Leigh Matthews presented to the Board and asked them to choose Glory or Sustained Success. He was saying the team was at the crossroads, they could start refreshing or he could hold them together and they could possibly with 3 or 4 premierships but it may mean loosing some young talent coming through. The board supposedly choose Glory - we played in 4 and lost some young players and the had that horrible period of trying to re-build in continually compromised drafts. Maybe Richmond had that same decision to make, one might argue they chose Glory also and kept too many ageing stars until the cliff came all too fast and they plunged. One could also argue under one of the Lions who played through those time Geelong also chose Glory and their cliff would seem to be racing towards them as well.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Guesswork like most posters.

Still interested in why anyone would guess that he was not going to play in 2022. His guess must have had some sort of reasoning behind it....maybe.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Thoughts on Jordan Sweet could be a cheap young ruckman option for the Lions

The problem with pursuing anyone from a Victorian club is that other Victorian clubs might be interested too, and if similar deals are offered, most players will pick the option that doesn't require them and their family to move. We can only overcome that if the player really wants to move to Queensland specifically, really wants to get out of the limelight, or we offer the most money. And we're not going to offer the most money given our cap situation. Fort at least seems to want to move to Queensland specifically. I haven't heard anything to suggest Sweet does.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Even without any kind of rebuild we have 2 top 20 draft picks this year and next including the likely 2022 number 1 pick. Adding that kind of talent to an already top 2/4 team is rare

 

[Mighty Lions]

The problem with pursuing anyone from a Victorian club is that other Victorian clubs might be interested too, and if similar deals are offered, most players will pick the option that doesn't require them and their family to move. We can only overcome that if the player really wants to move to Queensland specifically, really wants to get out of the limelight, or we offer the most money. And we're not going to offer the most money given our cap situation. Fort at least seems to want to move to Queensland specifically. I haven't heard anything to suggest Sweet does.

I think the main motivating factor for any player to switch clubs is to possibly have a chance to play finals and ultimately win a flag. Brisbane offers that opportunity right now.

 

[lionsrules]

Anyone think it's time for a mini rebuild? What we're doing isn't enough to win a flag, so why not accept that and try and extend our premiership window? Rumours suggest Neale could go back to Perth, so why not facilitate that while his currency is strong? With the picks we can get from him, we can upgrade on this year's draft order while still trading in for a future first so we can secure Fletcher and Ashcroft for next year. I like Neale and I was as distraught as everyone else when I heard these rumours, but look at our how we played without him this year. He's easily our best player, but we can play just as good without him as we can with him. Neale going would also open Starce and Rayner into the midfield, while answerth can take Starce's old role. Birchall going allows for Madden and Coleman to gain more senior games as well. These subtle changes coupled with the possibility of Roberson and Prior gaining more games could actually set us up for a better premiership tilt in the future.

we have the 4th youngest list in the competition. What are we rebuilding too? The youngest ?
Imagine having the 4th youngest team in the comp that’s finished top 4 three years in a row v Geelong the oldest team in the Comp finishing top 4 three years in a row.

 

[jackess]

We have been trying to evolve our team. The most recent interview with Fagan on the roar deal confirms that

 

[POBT]

The bloke's a troll. I wouldn't bother responding.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I think the main motivating factor for any player to switch clubs is to possibly have a chance to play finals and ultimately win a flag. Brisbane offers that opportunity right now.

So do the Western Bulldogs, which is relevant considering we're discussing Jordon Sweet.

 

[lioninthesand]

The notion we either have to either go for a flag or rebuild/reset is off the mark altogether.

We are perfectly positioned to add 4 top 20 draft picks over the next 2 years with little fuss, the list is young, we are in the frame for 5+ years imo. I'd say we are regenerating on the run.

 

[POBT]

Jordon Sweet couldn't get a game when the Dogs were crying out for a ruckman. That suggests he's either not ready or not good enough.

 

[jackess]

Jordon Sweet couldn't get a game when the Dogs were crying out for a ruckman. That suggests he's either not ready or not good enough.

Similar to Fort, Cox and Casboult?

 

[bungalow_bill]

The notion we either have to either go for a flag or rebuild/reset is off the mark altogether.

We are perfectly positioned to add 4 top 20 draft picks over the next 2 years with little fuss, the list is young, we are in the frame for 5+ years imo. I'd say we are regenerating on the run.

Yep we're simply trying to improve our team each year whether that be via trading in an a player A grade or otherwise as in previous seasons or hitting the draft this year and next. Doesn't have to be either one or the other.

 

[Dalions]

Similar to Fort, Cox and Casboult?

I think that Jordan Sweet is a little more 1 dimensional than the others.

 

[jackess]

I think that Jordan Sweet is a little more 1 dimensional than the others.

Sure but those other guys spent time in the 2s when if they were any good they would've got more games. Plus they're much older

It's slim pickings for us

 

[briztoon]

I'm interested to hear from the draft experts on our board about the difference between the type of player we could get at
- pick 2/3
- picks 6-9
- picks 14 & 18

I do like Goater and Ward from what I have seem (limited) and heard. There is talk that apart from Daicos, Darcy and Horne-Francis, the next best is Callaghan and then it seems to even out.

So
Should we trade up to pick 2/3 to ensure we get Callaghan?
Should we trade up to picks 6-9 to get one of Goater or Ward?
Or should we just hold our 2 first rounders and get two quality players - but the outcome is really out of our hands?

Forget Daicos and Darcy.

Horne-Francis at 1.

Callaghan “should” be pick 2.

After that, teams could have a wide variance where they rate players, greatly influenced by team needs.

I’d be hesitant to trade up to a particular pick before the draft, because we just wouldn’t know who rates which kids where.

There’s a lot of false information around the draft. Particularly with multiple clubs having two first round picks and hoping to get two specific targets.

I’d rather try and trade up on draft night, if a particular player was still available from a certain pick.

 

[Flea_29]

Forget Daicos and Darcy.

Horne-Francis at 1.

Callaghan “should” be pick 2.

After that, teams could have a wide variance where they rate players, greatly influenced by team needs.

I’d be hesitant to trade up to a particular pick before the draft, because we just wouldn’t know who rates which kids where.

There’s a lot of false information around the draft. Particularly with multiple clubs having two first round picks and hoping to get two specific targets.

I’d rather try and trade up on draft night, if a particular player was still available from a certain pick.

Thanks Mate - briztoon

Looking at Cal Twomeys updated top 30, he has rated Goater at 18 and Ward at 6. Looking at his list, was there anyone that surprised you (high/low)? Also keeping 14 and 18 (which will become 16 and 20) should get us two quality players that will help us moving fwd.
According to Cal, he has ranked 16 - 20
- T. SONSIE (Mid/Fwd)
- M. ROBERTS (Mid/Fwd from SA)
- J. GOATER (Mid)
- S. BUTLER (Mid/Fwd)
- C. CHESSER (Mid/Def)

So apart from a slider of two from his list 1-15, which two would best suit our needs?

 

[KennyP#42]

What about Sam Hayes from port? 22 and a very promising junior

 

[mattsmob]

Thanks Mate - briztoon

Looking at Cal Twomeys updated top 30, he has rated Goater at 18 and Ward at 6. Looking at his list, was there anyone that surprised you (high/low)? Also keeping 14 and 18 (which will become 16 and 20) should get us two quality players that will help us moving fwd.
According to Cal, he has ranked 16 - 20
- T. SONSIE (Mid/Fwd)
- M. ROBERTS (Mid/Fwd from SA)
- J. GOATER (Mid)
- S. BUTLER (Mid/Fwd)
- C. CHESSER (Mid/Def)

So apart from a slider of two from his list 1-15, which two would best suit our needs?

I’ll jump in, I was quite surprised with how low Goater was rated on his board which is good news for us as I know there’s a few that rate him in the top 4-8 and he also fits a need for us with his size and athleticism. He also had Rhett Bazzo rated at 30 which personally I think is low, if we were to take him with our second pick I’d be pretty happy as I really like everything he can bring as a key defender. Unfortunately with how well Wanganeen-Milera has been playing it’s no surprise to see him push up the board out of our two picks but he’d be a great pickup as a super classy outside mid. He had Matthew Johnson a little bit higher than some but I really like his size and class as a inside-outside mid and would have him around the top 10.

 

[jackess]

What about Sam Hayes from port? 22 and a very promising junior

If he came cheap enough (which isn't likely)

 

[BRAB]

If he came cheap enough (which isn't likely)

Yeah unfortunately we’re picking from the bargain bin for backup rucks at this stage. Cox, Casaboult and Fort are the calibre of player we can expect.