Fantasy 2022 - EMPIRE League - Discussion

[BeinPurplenGreen]

So based on end of week 6....

The hypothetical draft standings would be based on Effeciency Rating....

But I want to hear the pros and cons of this system. Tbh I've never really delved into what efficiency rating is, how it judges things, and thus areas where it could prevent tanking, or ways people could still circumvent it...

Also, it would have to be something everyone voted on now to be used for the upcoming draft.

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Already I can see flaws....

Til Valhall isn't the best team in the league, based on PF. Yet is being forced to have the #16 overall pick. Whilst Arakaan has one of the better teams, based on PF and W-L and yet is picking #5 overall.

My main concern though, no matter what measurement or judging system is used, is I don't want it to lead to an increase in allegations of "tanking" or deliberate losing.

Having been accused of that sort of tanking tonight, I can tell you it is a real punch in the guts, and not something anyone should have to put up with.

 

[Exe Gesis]

I have to crash, got an early start. When i get back home tomorrow I'll delve into Efficiency, how MFL judges it. etc. Because running up to down, or down to up, either as the draft standings, it seems wrong either way. There are genuinely bad teams picking late and good teams picking early, both directions. Not distinct and clear. Tho it does shed some light on which people have been poorly managing their weekly starting lineups. Eg, Greenville starting Fields too often instead of Lawrence, and other examples from team to team. But that's all it's telling it seems. Who has been squeezing the most from their roster and who has been lax. But which teams are genuinely #1 to #16 for a draft ranking? Efficiency isn't a be-all regarding that question. Merely highlights who may or may not be managing well.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Based on Potential Points....draft would be....

 

[Exe Gesis]

Based on Power Ranking....draft ranking would be...

 

[Exe Gesis]

PP looks a bit better than PR.

Will have to assess how PR is calculated. It's possibly factoring in a few other things that make it a clearer picture than mere PP?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Long beach drafting #12 (PP) vs #7 (PR) is about the only glaring thing there. He hasn't scored well, and has a 1-5 record, but he "coulda" had a better record with better starting lineups chosen because his potential points is much higher than most.

Why is PR saying he's not that good tho? It's factoring in a few other things that softens the picture. Taking into account "yeah ok he coulda won more games, so he has a better roster than most, but at the same time, it isn't that much better purely on PP because of xyz, and that's why his ranking is better reflected at #7 than #12" is what PR is saying.

 

[Exe Gesis]

I'm more open to the idea of using either PP or PR for draft standings than I was earlier in the night after looking at that table. Both do tend to paint a better picture than sheer W-L record. Which we already know isn't great for that (i'm 5-2 and Stinger is 3-4, for instance). Whereas either of those is a better mirror. But still have to assess what are all the things being used in the PR algorithm and how that might be better or worse than sheer PP.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

I'm more open to the idea of using either PP or PR for draft standings than I was earlier in the night after looking at that table. Both do tend to paint a better picture than sheer W-L record. Which we already know isn't great for that (i'm 5-2 and Stinger is 3-4, for instance). Whereas either of those is a better mirror. But still have to assess what are all the things being used in the PR algorithm and how that might be better or worse than sheer PP.

Why not just simple scoring efficiency?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

**** PP. if I’m unlucky enough in H2H to say finish out of the playoffs there’s no way I should get pick 15 or 16 just because I’m ranked top two in PP. We’re either a H2H league or all points league not a hybrid of both.

Weird week to accuse BPG of tanking when he had 9 players on a bye and 6 on IR

 

[WRU666]

I’m supportive of the draft order for non play off teams being determined by PP. If GG can get comfortable on the way MFL calculates this. My PP would get me a good pick at this stage but I’m still shooting for play offs given my current position.

Alternatively we migrate to sleeper and I have all my leagues on one platform

I’m also supportive of the passion displayed in this forum over the past 24 hours but request that the league offers free popcorn going forward.

Also - I forgot to pay GG. Im not gonna be the guy who just pays when he’s performing reasonably well so if I somehow pull off an unlikely win I’ll be donating the balance of the winnings to next season to create a bumper pot. If I don’t win, which is more likely, I’ll pay my outstanding subs.


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[A11dAtP0w3R]

Really simple question A11dAtP0w3R - why, 7 weeks into the season, knowing my bye week list and injury list, do you feel the need to directly and specifically call me out as tanking, the first allegation of tanking you've made against anyone in this league in two years?

Why?

A couple of years ago in Bigfoot on sleeper you went missing strangely around the time it became apparent you were missing the playoffs. Commish had to constantly set your lineup for you. Im not going to accuse you of tanking there coz there could have been stuff going on in your life that I was unaware of and a good reason for going missing.

This week it just seemed an obvious ploy, would rather say something now incase this became an ongoing theme.

Im in a tough division, bloody tough, pay up every year despite having no real winning chance, just annoys me that if im going to try and win each week despite no real benefit to me that other people could at least try also rather than start players confirmed out. I really dont think its asking much.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Anyway, move on, lets do a league vote on any draft changes for the 2024 draft in the offseason. Its too late to do these changes for the upcoming draft imo, people have made trades for picks based on the current rules, would be unfair on them.

Got a few things to vote on now. This along with the IDP scoring bumps for the 2023 season.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I say this as someone who owns Shiny's pick, using PP all of sudden would be a massive win for me, currently the #2 pick using PP.

Cant accuse me of looking after my own interests or not playing fair.

 

[Exe Gesis]

The question was raised, merely focusing on the suggestion of how to order draft standings. Always open to ideas, if they improve things etc.

To be voted, decided by league

1) keep as is, w-l record
2) use Power ranking
3) playoff teams still go 10-16, but teams out of playoffs use power ranking.

Im not advocating for change, i agree that a h2h league is a h2h league. However i am open to pr in essence not in terms of alleged tanking, fear of, but because the draft is about parity, the worst teams getting a shot earlier than better teams. However, if it does also help allay tanking, not that i think this league engages in it, then it can help.

Perhaps option 3 is better than option 2 imo. My vote would be option 1, otherwise option 3 if the vote gets stalled and needs a majority

why pr not pp or eff? Power ranking to me looks the more complete of the three. If you look at the graphic for pr ranking, it looks right, the teams from tgbb down to denver are the best teams, and teams from dagless down look worse. And in the order theyre ranked too. Little differences why denver is 10 say and not 8. Why valhall is 3 not 1, etc. You can see in the pr the lucky teams and unlucky teams in terms of w-l but also where they truly exist in terms of roster strength etc. Pr is more complete picture of it.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Efficiency is just a statistical tool that shows which owners have been better managers of their starters vs bench players from week to week. That is all. It does not give a complete or even superficial picture of genuine good or bad teams.

Pp is ok, but still too shallow. Eg, long beach ranking between pp and pr highlights that shallowness.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Or crazy as it sounds, everyone set a healthy lineup and we keep the same as it is currently

WRU666 rules in Dogmelt are a pretty nice for something different I reckon

Draft Order
The first 6 rookie slots will be given to the non-playoff teams based on max points.
The other 6 rookie slots will be given to the playoff teams based on their playoff finish. Teams knocked out in the playoffs will play for the better pick in the next round - eg 1st 2 teams out in the playoffs will play each other with the winner getting pick 7.

The winner of the consolation bracket will receive a compensatory pick 2.13 before the 3rd round starts

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Efficiency is just a statistical tool that shows which owners have been better managers of their starters vs bench players from week to week. That is all. It does not give a complete or even superficial picture of genuine good or bad teams.

Efficeny is definitely not something we should use. Given the shallower the roster the more efficient you will be, generally.

 

[WRU666]

How are power rankings calculated? Sounds. Little subjective based on someone at MFL’s view on player values


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[Exe Gesis]

How are power rankings calculated? Sounds. Little subjective based on someone at MFL’s view on player values


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I havent analyzed it yet, will tonight, but it definitely looks more correct than potential points.

 

[00Stinger]

Why does anyone really care who is/isn't tanking in a cash league?

 

[J Shuttlesworth]

Given the feedback MFL gives in regard to drafts etc., that clearly haven't been touched by a human in a decade or more, I'd be weary of going with anything that we can't confirm is 100% based on the relevant numbers and not also potentially skewed by any of the custom scoring or other setups the league has.

...and i'll keep trying to put this league down as a charitable donation on my tax return anyway.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Why does anyone really care who is/isn't tanking in a cash league?

Well because there would then be some people who are not tanking/cheating who are paying money to a comp where some may not be playing to the goodwill of the competition. I'm in no way accusing anyone btw just saying it's cheating and the fact that people are paying money makes it more of an issue not less

 

[00Stinger]

Well because there would then be some people who are not tanking/cheating who are paying money to a comp where some may not be playing to the goodwill of the competition. I'm in no way accusing anyone btw just saying it's cheating and the fact that people are paying money makes it more of an issue not less

Tanking doesn't really guarantee success though

The problem I find with NFL fantasy is selecting a water tight starting team before the games start without the chances of players not playing is super ****ing hard

Especially if you are like me and don't want to wake up at 3am to check if questionable players are going to play or not

Changing the draft order to Potential points or total points scored doesn't really fix any of the issues either imo

 

[Blacky]

* PP. if I’m unlucky enough in H2H to say finish out of the playoffs there’s no way I should get pick 15 or 16 just because I’m ranked top two in PP. We’re either a H2H league or all points league not a hybrid of both.

Weird week to accuse BPG of tanking when he had 9 players on a bye and 6 on IR

I mean solely for the non playoff teams

 

[Blacky]

Tanking doesn't really guarantee success though

The problem I find with NFL fantasy is selecting a water tight starting team before the games start without the chances of players not playing is super ******* hard

Especially if you are like me and don't want to wake up at 3am to check if questionable players are going to play or not

Changing the draft order to Potential points or total points scored doesn't really fix any of the issues either imo

It definitely does fix that though. That’s exactly what it’s there for

It doesn’t reward people for running the gauntlet on 50:50 injuries or playing sub optimal line ups