2023/24 Championship, Lower, Non-League & EFL Trophy - On beIN Sports and iFollow

[Frank Bunn]

It's a joke that only two teams get promoted from the National League and only the top team is automatic.

Barnet finished in 2nd place, 10 points above Solihull.

 

[Jatz]

We'll be straight back down next season but a promotion is still nice.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

It's a joke that only two teams get promoted from the National League and only the top team is automatic.

Barnet finished in 2nd place, 10 points above Solihull.

Interesting in Italian Serie B (where top two auto promoted) if the third placed finishes 14 or more points above fourth then they’re automatically promoted and there’s no playoffs. I like it.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Interesting in Italian Serie B (where top two auto promoted) if the third placed finishes 14 or more points above fourth then they’re automatically promoted and there’s no playoffs. I like it.

I reckon 10 points is plenty for that kind of ruling.

Last season Notts County finished 23 points above 3rd place Chesterfield and only scraped though the play off final on penalties.

 

[SM]

Interesting in Italian Serie B (where top two auto promoted) if the third placed finishes 14 or more points above fourth then they’re automatically promoted and there’s no playoffs. I like it.

They'd never do that though. $$$

 

[Jatz]

Why base it on an arbitrary number?

Either they go up automatically based on position or they go through the playoffs.

I like the set up in League 2 fwiw. It separates the Football League from the next drop. Having more teams move in League 1 is the one I'd change. I suppose they worry League 2 becomes too stagnant otherwise.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Why base it on an arbitrary number?

Either they go up automatically based on position or they go through the playoffs.

I like the set up in League 2 fwiw. It separates the Football League from the next drop. Having more teams move in League 1 is the one I'd change. I suppose they worry League 2 becomes too stagnant otherwise.

Separating League 2 from the National League is arbitrary. Clubs like Wrexham, Notts County and Oldham have better footballing heritage than clubs like Salford, Harrogate and Forest Green. And a bigger supporter base.

 

[SM]

Separating League 2 from the National League is arbitrary. Clubs like Wrexham, Notts County and Oldham have better footballing heritage than clubs like Salford, Harrogate and Forest Green. And a bigger supporter base.

It's not arbitrary at all. They're entirely different governing bodies with different rules and regulations.

 

[Jatz]

Separating League 2 from the National League is arbitrary. Clubs like Wrexham, Notts County and Oldham have better footballing heritage than clubs like Salford, Harrogate and Forest Green. And a bigger supporter base.

Wtf has that got to do with anything?

Derby has a bigger footballing heritage than Wolves, doesn't mean the clubs should swap leagues.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Wtf has that got to do with anything?

Derby has a bigger footballing heritage than Wolves, doesn't mean the clubs should swap leagues.

My point was that we're not talking about little amateur clubs in the National League. It's a false distinction to separate the clubs in it from those in League Two. Both are nationwide leagues run by the FA with clubs having professional set ups.

It's anomalous that 4 teams are swapped between League One and Two but only 2 can be promoted from the National League. Look at the teams that have recently been promoted. Stockport and Wrexham have topped League Two. Notts County are comfortably mid-table.

I think it will change to 3 up 3 down. It wasn't that long ago that Luton were denied a return to the Football League after finishing 2nd then 3rd in the National League in consecutive seasons.

 

[RossFC]

 

[SM]

My point was that we're not talking about little amateur clubs in the National League. It's a false distinction to separate the clubs in it from those in League Two. Both are nationwide leagues run by the FA with clubs having professional set ups.

It's anomalous that 4 teams are swapped between League One and Two but only 2 can be promoted from the National League. Look at the teams that have recently been promoted. Stockport and Wrexham have topped League Two. Notts County are comfortably mid-table.

I think it will change to 3 up 3 down. It wasn't that long ago that Luton were denied a return to the Football League after finishing 2nd then 3rd in the National League in consecutive seasons.

Clubs in the National League are professional by choice, a lot used to be semi-professional. It has a different governing body. Just because the FA has jurisdiction over both is an idiotic link. That's not their governing body. They have different FFP regulations amongst other things. It's not anomalous, it's done for a very clear reason. It's two distinct league set ups.

Stop digging in over a moronic point.

 

[Jatz]

Feel like we deserved the title, think we were best for longest.

Not to say that we didn't give Ipswich/Leeds an opportunity to snatch it.

 

[Jatz]

Clubs in the National League are professional by choice, a lot used to be semi-professional. It has a different governing body. Just because the FA has jurisdiction over both is an idiotic link. That's not their governing body. They have different FFP regulations amongst other things. It's not anomalous, it's done for a very clear reason. It's two distinct league set ups.

Stop digging in over a moronic point.

Id be staggered if they change to 3 up/3 down. The current system is good.

 

[SM]

Id be staggered if they change to 3 up/3 down. The current system is good.

I actually do think it'll change, but if it does it's a vote between the EFL and the National League (since they're different bodies, despite Frank's insistences). It would need the EFL clubs to realise it's in their best interests to make it a bit easier to get back up from the National League. It was a big topic of conversation last season with Notts and Wrexham having such a wild lead but the chance one of them wouldn't go up, but seems to have quietened down again.

 

[Jatz]

I actually do think it'll change, but if it does it's a vote between the EFL and the National League (since they're different bodies, despite Frank's insistences). It would need the EFL clubs to realise it's in their best interests to make it a bit easier to get back up from the National League. It was a big topic of conversation last season with Notts and Wrexham having such a wild lead but the chance one of them wouldn't go up, but seems to have quietened down again.

Yeah see, I'm the opposite. Don't think you'll ever convince the football league clubs that a higher chance of being relegated is worth it, even with more going up.

Notts/Wrexham was very much an outlier, rather than the norm. Not surprising it's quietened down again without the dominance of two larger teams (for that level).

 

[SM]

Yeah see, I'm the opposite. Don't think you'll ever convince the football league clubs that a higher chance of being relegated is worth it, even with more going up.

Notts/Wrexham was very much an outlier, rather than the norm. Not surprising it's quietened down again without the dominance of two larger teams (for that level).

Didn't Chesterfield just win the league in March?

 

[Jatz]

Didn't Chesterfield just win the league in March?

Yes, and they rightfully were promoted.

Not sure how that ties in with my comments about there being "two" larger teams that were streets ahead.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Yeah see, I'm the opposite. Don't think you'll ever convince the football league clubs that a higher chance of being relegated is worth it, even with more going up.

Notts/Wrexham was very much an outlier, rather than the norm. Not surprising it's quietened down again without the dominance of two larger teams (for that level).

Stockport just won League Two after winning the National League two seasons ago. Luton went from the old Conference to the Premier League in 10 seasons.

But it doesn't really matter if they are outliers. It's about fairness to clubs that are performing well being rewarded by promotion - just like every other level of the football pyramid.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'larger teams'. It's not like there's a great divide between National League clubs and League Two in terms of levels of professionalism, supporter base and facilities.

 

[Jatz]

Stockport just won League Two after winning the National League two seasons ago. Luton went from the old Conference to the Premier League in 10 seasons.

But it doesn't really matter if they are outliers. It's about fairness to clubs that are performing well being rewarded by promotion - just like every other level of the football pyramid.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'larger teams'. It's not like there's a great divide between National League clubs and League Two in terms of levels of professionalism, supporter base and facilities.

How do you not understand there's a difference between the Football League and the National Leagues?

 

[SM]

Yes, and they rightfully were promoted.

Not sure how that ties in with my comments about there being "two" larger teams that were streets ahead.

I guess the point being that teams being incredibly dominant still exists.

 

[SM]

Stockport just won League Two after winning the National League two seasons ago. Luton went from the old Conference to the Premier League in 10 seasons.

But it doesn't really matter if they are outliers. It's about fairness to clubs that are performing well being rewarded by promotion - just like every other level of the football pyramid.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'larger teams'. It's not like there's a great divide between National League clubs and League Two in terms of levels of professionalism, supporter base and facilities.

You are just being intentionally ignorant at this stage.

 

[Frank Bunn]

How do you not understand there's a difference between the Football League and the National Leagues?

Maybe use your words and tell me?

 

[SM]

Maybe use your words and tell me?

Must have me on ignore if he's missed my explanations. It's why I find the ignore function such a weak way out because you miss a lot of context in discussions just because someone made you upset once.

 

[Jatz]

I guess the point being that teams being incredibly dominant still exists.

They absolutely do, those clubs deserve auto promotion.

I think it's increasingly rare to have two clubs that dominate the way that Notts County and Wrexham did.

NC finished second on 107 points, Barnet finished 21 points behind that this season. In fact there's only a handful of other teams that hit 100 points or more, all were easily 1st place by some distance.