Game Day 2023 AFL Draft - The Late Male Edition

[Snuffaluphagus]

What does that system look like?

Why are not all the non vic clubs asking for the FS rule to be the same league wide?

Is the FS rule not now the same league wide? The F/S rule being the same is the problem when some clubs have an extra hundred years of history.

My view is I actually like academies and I like the F/S, it just needs to compromise the draft less (particularly the top end) and clubs need to actually pay fair value for the talent they have access to. The benefit should be that you get first right of access to these kids, not that you get them cheaply, I think that is a very important distinction. I think the AFL can do this if they put more than 5 seconds thought into it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

poshman

Additional possible rules to make things fair and I'm just spitballing here

• Top 5 or top 10 bids cant be matched, or, you must have a top 5 pick to match a top 5 bid and a top 10 pick to match a top 10 pick.
• 1 matched bid per round
• Something like 80% (or some other percentage with actual research and thought behind it) of the points for a bid have to come from 1 pick to match, the rest can be made up however you want.
• A tiered system for F/S's and accolades / games played. Brownlow, Coleman medal winner, 4 + AA jackets - can match anywhere etc etc

 

[Joose]

So when do we add Sharp to the list?

 

[Taylor]

So when do we add Sharp to the list?

Five days, November 27th

 

[poshman]

Is the FS rule not now the same league wide? The F/S rule being the same is the problem when some clubs have an extra hundred years of history.

My view is I actually like academies and I like the F/S, it just needs to compromise the draft less and particularly the top end and clubs need to actually pay fair value for the talent they have access to. The benefit should be that you get first right of access to these kids, not that you get them cheaply, I think that is a very important distinction. I think the AFL can do this if they put more than 5 seconds thought into it.

I thought that for vic clubs the games played barrier was 100 and ours was 150.. But on looking, it seems as though it is 100 games across the board.

 

[Taylor]

All the changes made for father son or academy concessions will only make the current advantages larger.

They should all be paid for with currency outside of draft picks allowing the AFL to calculate the benefits teams have received since 2010 and balance them all during the 2024 season when that currency is issued to clubs.

They just need to configure their spreadsheet so that all clubs won't go into deficit starting trade window in the first year. Determine points/currency based off that.

Then clubs can trade actual draft picks to buy that bid matching currency.

 

[poshman]

poshman

Additional possible rules to make things fair and I'm just spitballing here

• Top 5 or top 10 bids cant be matched, or, you must have a top 5 pick to match a top 5 bid and a top 10 pick to match a top 10 pick.
• 1 matched bid per round
• Something like 80% (or some other percentage with actual research and thought behind it) of the points for a bid have to come from 1 pick to match, the rest can be made up however you want.
• A tiered system for F/S's and accolades / games played. Brownlow, Coleman medal winner, 4 + AA jackets - can match anywhere etc etc

I like the matching of bids idea - it forces the club to trade into the top five/ten to get the pick if they finished up the ladder.

1 matched bid per round will be interesting when the Judd boys enter the draft (if they are good enough). Even then, the chances that twins would be top ten is tiny. Yes, I know the King brothers are an example. Imo the example that proves the rule. I agree with that as well.

Can you expand on the tiered system idea?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I like the matching of bids idea - it forces the club to trade into the top five/ten to get the pick if they finished up the ladder.

1 matched bid per round will be interesting when the Judd boys enter the draft (if they are good enough). Even then, the chances that twins would be top ten is tiny. Yes, I know the King brothers are an example. Imo the example that proves the rule. I agree with that as well.

Can you expand on the tiered system idea?

I actually like that club legends have their kids at the club they were at, some romance is nice. I dont like that some meh player playing 100 games generates uber spawn that means their team gets a generational talent for chips. I also want the top of the draft protected where possible. It could be done just through the already mentioned top 5 pick for top 5 bid but if they didnt want to do that.

• 300 games played or any of the awards mentioned for access to anywhere in the draft
• 250 games player for access outside the top 5
• 200 games for top 10 etc etc

 

[Lach72]

Academies should have the first round quarantined
FS you must match with at least a first round pick if a bid comes in the first round

 

[Paracleet]

Is the FS rule not now the same league wide? The F/S rule being the same is the problem when some clubs have an extra hundred years of history.

My view is I actually like academies and I like the F/S, it just needs to compromise the draft less and particularly the top end and clubs need to actually pay fair value for the talent they have access to. The benefit should be that you get first right of access to these kids, not that you get them cheaply, I think that is a very important distinction. I think the AFL can do this if they put more than 5 seconds thought into it.

Maybe the complaints are from the angle that the Vic clubs and Brisbane get access to F/S candidates whose players played before the other clubs were founded, sometimes decades before. E.g. Darcy Moore's old man finished his career 8 years before our first game (I.E 35 years ago!). 25 years before GWS's first game etc. etc.

 

[Tonga Bob]

Everyone talking about how to make the bidding on father-son & academy recruits fairer, nobody talking about how we can actually get more eligible recruits in the first place.

Ask anybody why Freo have only had one father-son recruit in their history out of 115 in total and all you get is wait or it's just bad luck. Stuff that. It's bad luck that NSW & Qld clubs are located in places which has competition from rugby league, yet the AFL did something about that.

 

[Tonga Bob]

Maybe the complaints are from the angle that the Vic clubs and Brisbane get access to F/S candidates whose players played before the other clubs were founded, sometimes decades before. E.g. Darcy Moore's old man finished his career 8 years before our first game (I.E 35 years ago!). 25 years before GWS's first game etc. etc.

Exactly. Daicos was the same.

Clem Michael wasn't even deemed to be eligible as a F/S yet his dad played 240-odd games for South Freo, so we had to use a normal pick on him.

 

[Tonga Bob]

Everyone talking about how to make the bidding on father-son & academy recruits fairer, nobody talking about how we can actually get more eligible recruits in the first place.

Ask anybody why Freo have only had one father-son recruit in their history out of 115 in total and all you get is wait or it's just bad luck. Stuff that. It's bad luck that NSW & Qld clubs are located in places which has competition from rugby league, yet the AFL did something about that.

I'm fighting with the whole of twitter about this, so that's why I'm fired up about this.

 

[s_wd6]

Everyone talking about how to make the bidding on father-son & academy recruits fairer, nobody talking about how we can actually get more eligible recruits in the first place.

Ask anybody why Freo have only had one father-son recruit in their history out of 115 in total and all you get is wait or it's just bad luck. Stuff that. It's bad luck that NSW & Qld clubs are located in places which has competition from rugby league, yet the AFL did something about that.

there needs to be a comprehensive list of total players eligible for each team vs amount of f/s picks they’ve taken before you can make generalisations. how many players who have played 100+ games for us actually have sons? And how old are those sons?

 

[Taylor]

there needs to be a comprehensive list of total players eligible for each team vs amount of f/s picks they’ve taken before you can make generalisations. how many players who have played 100+ games for us actually have sons? And how old are those sons?

There's a snapshot based on a broad range of years

 

[Superkoops]

poshman

Additional possible rules to make things fair and I'm just spitballing here

• Top 5 or top 10 bids cant be matched, or, you must have a top 5 pick to match a top 5 bid and a top 10 pick to match a top 10 pick.
• 1 matched bid per round
• Something like 80% (or some other percentage with actual research and thought behind it) of the points for a bid have to come from 1 pick to match, the rest can be made up however you want.
• A tiered system for F/S's and accolades / games played. Brownlow, Coleman medal winner, 4 + AA jackets - can match anywhere etc etc

The biggest issue our club has is the NGA program and what incentive we have to even running the program, which I agree zero incentive.

Why pick 40 who even decided that figure. In an ordinary draft with no bids or compo it is a few picks into third round. At the worst exclude just the first round and then game on. We would have been eligible to match bid on Motlop and Edwards. WC would have been unlucky this year with Collard but only because so many end of first round compo picks and North Melbourne are s#*t compo picks were handed out. Wouldn’t be many years that selection 28 is not second round.

This year 4 NGA boys were selected between 28 and 39. That just sucks alround.

 

[Eski3]

Anyone have any word yet on who our train on players might be? Presumably they'll start on Monday too

 

[trenton wave]

I think if another club picks up your NGA kid then the club should get an increased soft cap to send how they see fit on coaches etc for the first contract period, Still makes it worthwhile developing NGA kids but you get some compensation and creates some disincentive for other clubs to pick NGAs from competitors.

 

[Superkoops]

Dno if he is a specialist forward

Twomey has him as a ruck

Watch highlights. He is a forward that can ruck. Takes a nice clunk and has good agility. Played ruck for West Perth Colts but at 198cm is same height as Tabs really. I don’t mind we selected Ollie Murphy as KPD and Odin Jones as KPF. Both have versatility.

We will get some small forward to come and train at the club over pre-season. Try before you buy so to speak. Don’t mind at all. Hopefully Koen Sanchez is one of the two we get down at some point.

The rules allow for 2 players to be trialed at any one point for available list spots.

We have one spot available.

 

[Eski3]

Looking at Koen Sanchez' stats, is it true that he kicked a total of 3 goals this season?

Koen Sanchez | WAFL

wafl.com.au

He clearly played well at the state champs and he can find the ball but his inability to hit the scoreboard in the WAFL as a small forward might explain why he was overlooked

 

[Superkoops]

I think if another club picks up your NGA kid then the club should get an increased soft cap to send how they see fit on coaches etc for the first contract period, Still makes it worthwhile developing NGA kids but you get some compensation and creates some disincentive for other clubs to pick NGAs from competitors.

Decent idea. But let’s bring the stupid 40 forward to start of second round. Don’t even put a figure on it just second round. If we wanted Mitch Edwards or Motlop that bad and were concerned about him going in the first round then we have select in the first round. If another club want them they have to pull the trigger in the first round. Don’t even care if they remove that 20% discount.

Salary/soft cap and second round bid matching would at least be some incentive for the clubs to push on the the NGA program. At this stage might as well close up program and put more resources into development of our young players.

 

[Tonga Bob]

Decent idea. But let’s bring the stupid 40 forward to start of second round.

Be good for Collingwood who have 3 NGA kids next season from Oakleigh, including Traynor's brother. So this will 100% happen.

 

[Paracleet]

there needs to be a comprehensive list of total players eligible for each team vs amount of f/s picks they’ve taken before you can make generalisations. how many players who have played 100+ games for us actually have sons? And how old are those sons?

Our lack of F/S success is at least partly self inflicted in that from the first 6 years of our existence (let alone foundation players) only 9 of the players signed reached 100 for the club. Apply that same criteria to Port its 23. Only 3 of our players to have played 100 games are over 50 as of right now. Including them only 7 are over 45. 37 of the 49 players we have on 100+ are under 43 and 29 are under 40.

Here is an interesting question. Let's say the original rule for us of players who played 150 games for East Fremantle, South Fremantle, Perth or Swan Districts prior to 1995 was amended to something fairer like 100 games for these teams prior to 1995 and / or Fremantle combined (and remove the sunset of 2015. That was such bullsh*t). How many more players would we actually have gotten as exclusives:

Dillion O'Reilly (joy)
Ed Allen
Clem Michael
?

 

[pK75]

Looking at Koen Sanchez' stats, is it true that he kicked a total of 3 goals this season?

Koen Sanchez | WAFL

wafl.com.au

He clearly played well at the state champs and he can find the ball but his inability to hit the scoreboard in the WAFL as a small forward might explain why he was overlooked

I guess that’s because he’s a midfielder not a forward.

 

[DragoDelph]

The quickest and easiest way for new clubs would be to have foundation players, who play 1 game, eligible.