List Mgmt. 2023 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Key Dates:

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Draft Period, November 20–22

• Round 1 of the National Draft: Monday, November 20, time and venue TBA
• Trade Period (3), picks only: Tuesday, November 21, 5.45pm–6.30pm
• Round 2–end of the National Draft: Tuesday, November 21, 7pm until completion
• Rookie Promotions: Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• Delisted Free Agency Period (3): Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• List Lodgement 3*: Wednesday, November 22, 10am (optional; required for those participating in the PSD)
• Pre-Season Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3pm
• Rookie Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3.20pm
• Final List Lodgement*: Thursday, November 23, 4pm

* List lodgement dates are yet to be made public, so are approximate based on past history and the requirements of the AFL Rules. When lists are lodged, the number of players on the list must not exceed maximum list sizes. At the same time, clubs must provide the AFL with estimates of total player payments in the current and following year, which must prove the club is not and will not exceed the salary cap. (AFL Rules 5.3, 6.1, 6.8, 7.2, 7.9)

 

[anotherletdown]

Would love to get North's 17 & 18 for our 12 but highly unlikely. Would more likely offer them to Geelong for their 8.

I think it's 15 for 22 & 23 at the end of the day. It's probably not too far off, they can have our 44 or 54 as well.

I can imagine we'll hold and wait. I think live trading will be nuts this year

 

[anotherletdown]

Dees won’t do it they specifically have traded up for a good reason. Honestly doubt we trade up at all.

Dees have to prepare for Petty departure. They'll take O'Sullivan

 

[Bonz]

Gunston lasts a single year in QLD before asking to be transferred back to Vic...
And Cats sign Hawkins to a 1 yr deal

Gunner has had a fair bit going on in his family in the last bit.

Its nothing on QLD or the Lions.

 

[MarkP]

The only way bringing in Ugle-Hagan would make much sense is if we thought McDonald was going. I doubt we're there yet.

As for Wicks, while I hear the commentary about an increased midfield rotation (ie. Parker, Adams resting forward), I also just watched Collingwood win a flag with four small forwards, three with elite pressure. Wicks goes and who brings the pressure? Konstanty? You'll have to forgive me for not being convinced.

Konstanty brought the pressure to Mills. Let's give it a crack and not be hasty.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Dees have to prepare for Petty departure. They'll take O'Sullivan

They aren’t finished with trading up if they can. They took a forward last year too

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Wouldn’t be against Toby McLean

16

Toby Mclean

Age

28

Ht

181cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

9.0

3star

HB

10.7

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.4

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

6.5

3star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.3

1star

T

3.5

4star

CL

2.0

4star

D

16.8

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.8

4star

CL

0.8

3star

as as DFA we could do heaps worse

 

[RUNVS]

Wouldn’t be against Toby McLean as as DFA we could do heaps worse

Bringing Tony Lockett out of retirement?

 

[kickthething]

Wouldn’t be against Toby McLean as as DFA we could do heaps worse

2 ACLs …..it would seem his time may be done.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

The only way bringing in Ugle-Hagan would make much sense is if we thought McDonald was going. I doubt we're there yet.

As for Wicks, while I hear the commentary about an increased midfield rotation (ie. Parker, Adams resting forward), I also just watched Collingwood win a flag with four small forwards, three with elite pressure. Wicks goes and who brings the pressure? Konstanty? You'll have to forgive me for not being convinced.

I think we are a better team with Wicks in it. He may not be one of the elite small forwards and he can spray them at times but he does bring pressure. Outside of Papley, who lately has been used alot at the contest, there is no one else in our forward line who seems to bust their chops in defence.

Konstanty will be an interesting one. I think injury and being in a crap team stymied his first year. The one thing he did show was that he's a beautiful kick on goal. With our VFL team hopefully being stronger in 2024, I'm hopeful he can progress rapidly and push for an AFL start. At least we know he is strong on the wrestle / tackle......

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I think we are a better team with Wicks in it. He may not be one of the elite small forwards and he can spray them at times but he does bring pressure. Outside of Papley, who lately has been used alot at the contest, there is no one else in our forward line who seems to bust their chops in defence.

Konstanty will be an interesting one. I think injury and being in a crap team stymied his first year. The one thing he did show was that he's a beautiful kick on goal. With our VFL team hopefully being stronger in 2024, I'm hopeful he can progress rapidly and push for an AFL start. At least we know he is strong on the wrestle / tackle......

Certainly a good kick for goal. Did not show much pressure as a small forward and I guess he has been asked to work on that.

Wicks is a long way ahead.

 

[Kiama Chris]

a worthy contribution to the discussion.

The compensation doesn't come from players, nor does it fall from the sky. It comes from other clubs. This is a zero sum game: there's a fixed amount of draft capital to go around; when North Melbourne are granted a massive increase to compensate them for losing a player, this is achieved by transferring capital from other clubs who now have less of it.

Not only that, it's the also underperforming clubs that incur the biggest hit. I'm not normally one to go into bat for Hawthorn, but they have every right to feel aggrieved here. They finished 3rd last and have contributed more than anyone else than to NM's compensation for losing McKay. How is that fair?

If they're going to maintain FA compensation, there are at least four things they can do to improve what's obviously a flawed system:

1. Reduce the compensation: The 2nd round should be the earliest that compensation picks are provided. Yes, I'm aware that some players lost to FA would fetch more at the trade table. The point is that compensation shouldn't aim to match the trade value of the departing player (much less far exceed that value as as happened with McKay getting NM pick 3). Clubs are already naturally compensated when losing a player by virtue of getting additional cap space. Any formal compensation by way of draft picks should be seen as complementing this.
2. Have the recipient club pay the compensation: If the worry is that bottom tier clubs are losing players to top-tier clubs, then have the clubs that directly benefit supply the compensation, rather than a fellow cellar-dwellar, helplessly watching on while its draft hand is being depleted.
3. Stop tying compensation to the club's ladder position: The draft is the primary equalisation mechanism. Linking compensation to ladder position is undermining the integrity and effectiveness of that mechanism.
4. Base the compensation of the contract offer from the current club, rather than the destination club: self-explanatory.

If I had my way, I'd implement all four of those changes. I suspect any one of them on their own would improve on what we currently have (slight caveat: you'd probably couldn't implement #2 without also #1.)

 

[dosser]

The compensation doesn't come from players, nor does it fall from the sky. It comes from other clubs. This is a zero sum game: there's a fixed amount of draft capital to go around; when North Melbourne are granted a massive increase to compensate them for losing a player, this is achieved by transferring capital from other clubs who now have less of it.

Not only that, it's the also underperforming clubs that incur the biggest hit. I'm not normally one to go into bat for Hawthorn, but they have every right to feel aggrieved here. They finished 3rd last and have contributed more than anyone else than to NM's compensation for losing McKay. How is that fair?

If they're going to maintain FA compensation, there are at least four things they can do to improve what's obviously a flawed system:

1. Reduce the compensation: The 2nd round should be the earliest that compensation picks are provided. Yes, I'm aware that some players lost to FA would fetch more at the trade table. The point is that compensation shouldn't aim to match the trade value of the departing player (much less far exceed that value as as happened with McKay getting NM pick 3). Clubs are already naturally compensated when losing a player by virtue of getting additional cap space. Any formal compensation by way of draft picks should be seen as complementing this.
2. Have the recipient club pay the compensation: If the worry is that bottom tier clubs are losing players to top-tier clubs, then have the clubs that directly benefit supply the compensation, rather than a fellow cellar-dwellar, helplessly watching on while its draft hand is being depleted.
3. Stop tying compensation to the club's ladder position: The draft is the primary equalisation mechanism. Linking compensation to ladder position is undermining the integrity and effectiveness of that mechanism.
4. Base the compensation of the contract offer from the current club, rather than the destination club: self-explanatory.

If I had my way, I'd implement all four of those changes. I suspect any one of them on their own would improve on what we currently have (slight caveat: you'd probably couldn't implement #2 without also #1.)

You make a really good point with other poor teams paying a big price. What if the 1st round remains sacrosanct and compensation occurs in the 2nd round? In addition, the team losing the player can get more than 1 x 2nd round pick.
Eg. Norf lose McKay to a deal that triggers band 1 compensation. Their position means they already have picks 2 and 20 but they are now given picks 21 and 22 as comp. These picks can now be used to trade back into the first round or simply go to the draft.

 

[bedford]

I think we are a better team with Wicks in it. He may not be one of the elite small forwards and he can spray them at times but he does bring pressure. Outside of Papley, who lately has been used alot at the contest, there is no one else in our forward line who seems to bust their chops in defence.

Konstanty will be an interesting one. I think injury and being in a crap team stymied his first year. The one thing he did show was that he's a beautiful kick on goal. With our VFL team hopefully being stronger in 2024, I'm hopeful he can progress rapidly and push for an AFL start. At least we know he is strong on the wrestle / tackle......

Konstanty is a great kick at goal and is a tough nut , looking forward to his progress .

 

[sataris]

2 ACLs …..it would seem his time may be done.

How many ACL's did we keep AJ on the list for?

 

[kickthething]

How many ACL's did we keep AJ on the list for?

is that a reason to do it again?

 

[Shaq_01]

KB interview on SEN

Sounds like swans trying to move up the second pick higher ? Currently 45

 

[sataris]

KB interview on SEN

Sounds like swans trying to move up the second pick higher ? Currently 45

I'd assume this is to match any possible bids on Cleary.

 

[zyzzbruh]

I think we are a better team with Wicks in it. He may not be one of the elite small forwards and he can spray them at times but he does bring pressure. Outside of Papley, who lately has been used alot at the contest, there is no one else in our forward line who seems to bust their chops in defence.

Konstanty will be an interesting one. I think injury and being in a crap team stymied his first year. The one thing he did show was that he's a beautiful kick on goal. With our VFL team hopefully being stronger in 2024, I'm hopeful he can progress rapidly and push for an AFL start. At least we know he is strong on the wrestle / tackle......

Having Adams means papley will get less time in the guts. Paps, wicks and Hayward together providing speed and applying pressure as mostly full time forwards is going to make us a hell of a lot more dangerous. Not to mention it'll also free up Heeney to do what he does best playing out of FF.

With Konstanty providing competition and coming in for dropped form, we're looking the goods.

 

[TheMase]

I'd assume this is to match any possible bids on Cleary.

Not sure if I see the point.

Currently we can match to selection 27 or something similar and he isn’t expected to go before that. Even if he was, it would be a slight deficit to our F3 next year, no big deal.

May suggest we may wish to take a player before Cleary (or hope he slides to rookie list?).

Maybe we aren’t planning on retaining Reid if we can get the players we want, but may need to move up to do so.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Gigantic no for me to bringing in Ugle-Hagan and trading Wicks.

Gigantic yes to me for anything that hurts the Bravedogs by forcing them to spend more of their cap.

2016 will always be there.

 

[rustycrate]

Not sure if I see the point.

Currently we can match to selection 27 or something similar and he isn’t expected to go before that. Even if he was, it would be a slight deficit to our F3 next year, no big deal.

May suggest we may wish to take a player before Cleary (or hope he slides to rookie list?).

Maybe we aren’t planning on retaining Reid if we can get the players we want, but may need to move up to do so.

Interesting

 

[Adnico26Parker]

Does anyone know if we've ever tried Amartey in defence?

 

[TheMase]

Does anyone know if we've ever tried Amartey in defence?

We did in the reserves a few years ago. It didn’t appear like it would be a successful move to me.

I think we should persevere with him as a forward. We have seen him on a few occasions have a big impact in a short period of time in games. If we can get that to be more consistent over the course of a game he is arguably one of our most dangerous forwards.

Incidentally I read the other day that Buller apparently played in defence in the u18 and only moved forwards once playing senior footy.

 

[Adnico26Parker]

We did in the reserves a few years ago. It didn’t appear like it would be a successful move to me.

I think we should persevere with him as a forward. We have seen him on a few occasions have a big impact in a short period of time in games. If we can get that to be more consistent over the course of a game he is arguably one of our most dangerous forwards.

Incidentally I read the other day that Buller apparently played in defence in the u18 and only moved forwards once playing senior footy.

Interesting, thanks Mase

 

[Swansujelly]

We did in the reserves a few years ago. It didn’t appear like it would be a successful move to me.

I think we should persevere with him as a forward. We have seen him on a few occasions have a big impact in a short period of time in games. If we can get that to be more consistent over the course of a game he is arguably one of our most dangerous forwards.

Incidentally I read the other day that Buller apparently played in defence in the u18 and only moved forwards once playing senior footy.

yeah, I've been calling for Buller to be trialled back for while now, for that reason. Our forward line is kinda set, but theres a spot back if he wants it, up to him how important asenior spot is vs playing forward.