Position 2023 Fantasy Defenders

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If he does well in this same role in the scratchies, he may be a good cash cow for a month max. Cheap enough to gamble on anyways
Yeah I'm not married to him at all just worth keeping an eye on him, could be a good scorer then bottom out could be a non starter

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Looking at this there are a lot of kick ins available but like I said could be worse
 

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Yeah I'm not married to him at all just worth keeping an eye on him, could be a good scorer then bottom out could be a non starter

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Looking at this there are a lot of kick ins available but like I said could be worse
Won't see Powell or Markov - a bit narrower
 
Won't see Powell or Markov - a bit narrower
Powell
Weller
Markov
Bowes
Luko is now permanent forward
Ellis is being talked about more wing
Didn't Budarick get injured?
 
Possibly, but not necessarily. I honestly don’t get the sense much tagging goes into those junior showcase leagues when they really only exist to enable gun juniors to get noticed by draft watchers. Maybe that’s way off the mark but you certainly don’t hear much “player x has been picked by AFL team y because of the fantastic tagging jobs he did throughout the NAB league games”
Not to mention the elite juniors are so much better than the ones they playing against at that level.

Now they in the big boys club with other superstars and elite athletes who are much superior due to years in the system.

I actually think he may find it harder playing mids (first year only, hes going to be a generational talent). He got alot of uncontested ball at the HBF with almost no pressure and pies handing it to him every chance they got.
 
In his under 18's year as a full time mid, Daicos went at 136 Fantasy points, 2 goals and 35.8 disposals per game, across 5 games (given the season was cut short) - it's seriously f*cking nuts what he did Fantasy wise/stats wise in under age.

As much as I agree there's a ton of upside for Young, I still disagree that Daicos doesn't have as much/if not more upside. Young went at 86 in his underage year, and he's already surpassed that. I think Young is capped at 100 at most, whereas I think Daicos will have multiple 120+ seasons, and likely win a Brownlow within the next 5 years. His only threat is being tagged, but every team tried it at underage level - and failed. I suspect his tank will burn all except the most diligent taggers with a tank to match his - like a Callum Mills type.

Going at 87 in your first year, as a defender, is crazy. Only Sam Walsh has him beat in recent times with 92, but he was a full time mid basically from the get go. Young went at 41.6 in his first year and then 85 in his second year, so pretty strong comparison...but only went at 87.6 in his third. He's had 2 more seasons and he did in his third what Daicos did in his first. Young will stay as a defender at the end of this year, but Daicos will likely be pushing for uber mid status, come the next couple of years, IMO - the guy is made for Fantasy.

Re: the +6's in defence, you only need to see guys like Zerrett, Touk, Mills and Macrae, who always drift back with their elite tank, for that plus 6. I imagine Daicos will have free reign like in his underage year, and will probably be both their highest disposal winner, and highest fantasy scorer this year - even with Tom Mitchell in the team. Apparently he is completely dominating match sim, and he's only in his second year. At the very least he's easily got a 95 in him, and that would make him a Top 6 Defender based on last year. He had 7 tons last year compared to Young's four, so he already has him covered in his first year in ceiling, as well. Young was consistent, but Daicos had a 40 disposal, 3 goal game - which again is just nuts for a first year player.

Honestly, I like Young as a POD pick, but going against 45% of the comp when their underage scores are not even close to similar, is a dangerous strategy, IMO. I'm definitely down with choosing both if you can, but if there's only one choice, I know who I'm going with. Who knows with Fantasy, but underage stats do matter, when it comes to assessing just how much of a ball magnet a player is/what their Fantasy upside is - and Daicos is unparalleled when played in his natural position - the midfield.
Sorry to nitpick but Young went 41.8 (52.25 adjusted) year 1. Then he went 69 then 88. Good natural progression each year
 
Sorry to nitpick but Young went 41.8 (52.25 adjusted) year 1. Then he went 69 then 88. Good natural progression each year

Listed as 41.6 on Footywire, but spot on about it being adjusted which I didn't include - cheers for that. Definitely very good natural progression, and could make another jump this year, if all goes well
 
Listed as 41.6 on Footywire, but spot on about it being adjusted which I didn't include - cheers for that. Definitely very good natural progression, and could make another jump this year, if all goes well
All he needs is 4 kick ins to himself a game that's 12 points right

Need to keep Luke Ryan away from the balls

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Shadow89 re the Daicos discussion, you’ve made an excellent case. Full points for the write up 🙂 I’m going to play devil’s advocate purely as a counter-balance though, because although I’m sure he’ll be good, I don’t think the picture is quite as rosy as you’ve painted:


Huge numbers for sure, but bear in mind that his “whole season” was only 5 games. Still impressive, but a very small sample.


There’s an excellent ESPN article that compares Daicos with Will Ashcroft. One interesting point it makes that can explain why his junior numbers might need to be taken with a grain of salt:




Was he tagged at underage level? I can’t find any reference to this anywhere. Happy to re-evaluate if there’s a link.


Maybe, but then Ryan Clarke held him to 65 last year and he’s no Callum Mills. I think you can make the case he’s Collingwood’s best (or at least most damaging) player going into 2023 so the tags are definitely coming, and elite tank or not, they’re likely to affect his output from where I’m sitting.


I’m leaning more towards a 90, which gives him negligible upside priced at 87 - particularly given that a 90 average would probably see some up and down scoring. 115 one week followed by a 75 the next. Young looks more consistent to me despite not having the same ceiling.

Also worth mentioning that Collingwood’s draw is harder this year than last, and interestingly Daicos does have a tricky first 4 opponents that aren’t really conducive to going bang from the start. He has Geelong (89 last year), Port (65), Richmond (83) and Brisbane (80) for an average of 79. Different circumstances this year and most likely a different position on the ground, but still food for thought.

Young is in my team and locked away not going anywhere. Daicos is in my considerations but not in my team at present.

Solid points, and a lot of food for though there - cheers mate :)

Yeah I amended the 'whole season' to 5 games afterwards, but you'd already posted the comment, haha. Still impressive nonetheless, but not the same as a full season.

The tagging thing was actually something I picked up via commentators during the Geelong VFL vs AFL Academy. Recall them discussing how he's been the standout all season (all 5 games of it), and that while teams have tried to stop him, no-one has been able to. Could be more of a generic throwaway line, but I took it as literal given the phrasing.

I think the draw while important and will affect his score somewhat, won't change how he goes over the season as a whole. Even if he starts the season slow, he'll still finish with a wet sail, as he builds more and more into the season, IMO - much like he did last year.

I've got both in my team now as it stands, given Young has been on the cusp for the last couple of weeks, but will have to see them both during PS to really gauge just how good they both look this year.

Either way, awesome discussion! :)
 
All he needs is 4 kick ins to himself a game that's 12 points right

Need to keep Luke Ryan away from the balls

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I like the talk of him moving more on the wing up from half back, and then delivering it inside 50 - that could give him Duncan like numbers if they really like the ball in his hands that much. Jordan Clark and Heath Chapman will take some points from him too, which is my only concern given how many similar types they have back there - but hopefully he's the ultimate beneficiary!
 
Possibly, but not necessarily. I honestly don’t get the sense much tagging goes into those junior showcase leagues when they really only exist to enable gun juniors to get noticed by draft watchers. Maybe that’s way off the mark but you certainly don’t hear much “player x has been picked by AFL team y because of the fantastic tagging jobs he did throughout the NAB league games”

No but defensive high quality mids are definitely a thing - you only need to see how Jhye Clark played this year, to see why that grit and attack on the man and player, elevates some within the drafting discussion.
 

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Great stuff, thanks.

Zevon covered most things so I won’t rehash but will add 2 other quick points.

The first is junior scoring does matter, but mostly in year one and then as a predictor for peak output. Junior numbers in yr 2 should be ALMOST discounted. He got those numbers in a vastly more limited talent pool playing against peers and much lessor talent. He doesn’t get that luxury at AFL. Rowell, Anderson, Serong et al won’t age out of his games and leave him as the big dog. In fact they’ll all improve. So yes his junior numbers inform his peak prediction but not yr2 in my mind.

The last thing is the “as a defender” inferring it’s a lessor place to score for him. For every Rory Laird there are plenty of Short’s. It’s just not a given. Yes Daicos has more talent than many of those who didn’t see a bump, but many of those guys were also fully developed and didn’t pull it off.

Now having said all that, I will state he’s in my team right now. I have both he and Young plus Doc. I don’t think he’s a bad pick, far from it. I do think the confidence in him is overstated.

I’m not bothered by the amount of people who own him either. I’d be happy to bet against it because if he goes bang he’s not hard to get too. Also, half the world loves soccer, but it’s clearly rubbish. Large numbers don’t necessarily equate to the right decision 😜

All solid points, but the only one I'll disagree on, is the fact that he could be a Jayden Short type of player. Daicos had barely played any half back during his juniors, was just more of a gateway into senior selection, and not where his natural game lies. He's a ball winning machine, and even in the back half, wasn't a 1 on 1 defender by any stretch.

Short was first and foremost a defender who got moved into the mids, because of a lack of midfield depth at the Tigers. Daicos is first and foremost a mid, who got moved into defence because it was his first year and they didn't want to throw him in the deep end. His natural game is midfield, so I imagine he'll thrive and win a ton of ball - and demand the one/two constantly as well, as he did in underage.
 
All solid points, but the only one I'll disagree on, is the fact that he could be a Jayden Short type of player. Daicos had barely played any half back during his juniors, was just more of a gateway into senior selection, and not where his natural game lies. He's a ball winning machine, and even in the back half, wasn't a 1 on 1 defender by any stretch.

Short was first and foremost a defender who got moved into the mids, because of a lack of midfield depth at the Tigers. Daicos is first and foremost a mid, who got moved into defence because it was his first year and they didn't want to throw him in the deep end. His natural game is midfield, so I imagine he'll thrive and win a ton of ball - and demand the one/two constantly as well, as he did in underage.
yeah i think he can only really benefit from playing mid, yes he could be undersized and bullied a bit here and there, but playing there gives him more opportunity at being involved in the play from the get and he still has the ability to use his tank to get those cheapies anyway
 
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I am going off Young

Saint Kilda tag and could sit someone on him in R1
North are shit ball could not be down there
Eagles his worst fantasy team to play
Crows should score well see Daicos
Suns should score well

Rounds 9 and 10 got 2 harder games Swans and Geelong

Could have 3 tags in 10 games plus his worst ever side

Maybe an upgrade
 
Saint Kilda tag and could sit someone on him in R1
Coaches tend to be quite reactionary with who they tag so I think this is only a risk if he does something eye-catching in the pre season game. More likely to tag Brayshaw to kick the year off.

North are s**t ball could not be down there
Think this will work out fine. A few players went insane playing the kick-mark game against North last year (Himmelburg springs to mind). Especially since Young can push up a bit higher and deliver inside 50; doesn’t just need to get it in defence.

Eagles his worst fantasy team to play
He’s only played them 3 times so I don’t know if we have enough to go on yet. His first game against them was fine but his next two were concerning though.

Crows should score well see Daicos
Suns should score well
Ticks in both these games

Rounds 9 and 10 got 2 harder games Swans and Geelong
Yeah the Swans at the SCG could be really ugly for a player like him - let’s hope it’s a windy day with plenty of behinds 🥴 The Geelong game is at Optus so I think that’ll be ok.

Think he’ll be fine. A few little queries which you’re correct to raise but nothing alarming
 
Coaches tend to be quite reactionary with who they tag so I think this is only a risk if he does something eye-catching in the pre season game. More likely to tag Brayshaw to kick the year off.


Think this will work out fine. A few players went insane playing the kick-mark game against North last year (Himmelburg springs to mind). Especially since Young can push up a bit higher and deliver inside 50; doesn’t just need to get it in defence.


He’s only played them 3 times so I don’t know if we have enough to go on yet. His first game against them was fine but his next two were concerning though.


Ticks in both these games


Yeah the Swans at the SCG could be really ugly for a player like him - let’s hope it’s a windy day with plenty of behinds 🥴 The Geelong game is at Optus so I think that’ll be ok.

Think he’ll be fine. A few little queries which you’re correct to raise but nothing alarming
That's my issue with defence do you go value Daicos Young Yeo McKenna Hunt/Constable Ginbey or do you go Doch Daicos/Young Yeo McKenna Hunt/Constable Ginbey

I am hoping he tanks early and i can bring him in post bye but yeah i need footy to judge these kids off
 
That's my issue with defence do you go value Daicos Young Yeo McKenna Hunt/Constable Ginbey or do you go Doch Daicos/Young Yeo McKenna Hunt/Constable Ginbey

I am hoping he tanks early and i can bring him in post bye but yeah i need footy to judge these kids off
Yeah the bolded bit is crucial. Won’t know the correct structure until we know how many rookies there are (and their quality) and hence how many midpricers we’ll need to fit in.
 
Yeah the bolded bit is crucial. Won’t know the correct structure until we know how many rookies there are (and their quality) and hence how many midpricers we’ll need to fit in.
I mean if I can get Weddle on field and Sheezel/Pou go well will look amazing

But you ever know some random could come out and go bang like Nic Martin, Hayes weren't in our sides now
 
I mean if I can get Weddle on field and Sheezel/Pou go well will look amazing

But you ever know some random could come out and go bang like Nic Martin, Hayes weren't in our sides now
Yeah I’m hoping some decent randoms come through. Rooks like Weddle and Ginbey are being relied on by a lot of teams but they’re highly priced and I don’t see stacks of scoring ability in either of them. Bit of a concern.
 
Yeah I’m hoping some decent randoms come through. Rooks like Weddle and Ginbey are being relied on by a lot of teams but they’re highly priced and I don’t see stacks of scoring ability in either of them. Bit of a concern.
I agree two lockdown defenders who could go through the midfield doesn't scream pick me

Arlo Draper
Jakob Ryan
Corey Wagner
Lachie Cowan
Miller Bergman

The more rebounding types
 
I seriously hate that you have made me talk up an Eagle but from what I have seen of Ginbey at sims, he will be around the ball as a mid and used as an option on the way out as a HB. He rotates with Yeo and Shuey so I really think he's locked in for them and he lloks like he can play. He looks prime to me but the PS games will tell more. Now I need a shower.

Wagner is obviously in the frame as he's mature aged and we went and got him. He's coming back now from an ankle and starting to move well and get involved in full training but without something weird happening, I don't see him as starting for Freo. An upgrade target for sure but I doubt a Rd1 starter.

I like Cowan though, I wanted us to draft him and it appears he's a chance for Rd1. A Carlton loving mate of mine who watches them closely is adamant they didn't grab Markov because they were comfortable with Cowan. Wait and see I guess but he's the most likely from your list in my mind Mr 11.
 
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