Opinion 2023 Fwd Line chat

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Fremantle Dockers face forward line shake-up if problems arising from St Kilda loss aren‘t quickly resolved​

When it comes to the forward line, the Dockers could do worse than look up Einstein’s definition of insanity, writes ELIZA REILLY.

@ByElizaReilly

4 min read
March 20, 2023 - 5:32PM



Four big men. Three of whom aren’t proven in attack. Two goals between them.
One mighty conundrum for Fremantle.

Dropped marks, questionable conversions and terrible inside 50 entries: this was a forward line in disarray at Marvel Stadium on Sunday. But was Fremantle’s performance against St Kilda the basement or the benchmark?
On paper, Nat Fyfe, Josh Treacy, Matt Taberner and Luke Jackson looked like they were going to trouble most backlines in the competition; at least in a couple of pre-season practice matches. That, however, unravelled courtesy of Ross Lyon and his diligently drilled defence.
Together, the aforementioned quartet combined for one mark inside 50, eight tackles and a pair of goals. And of those, Taberner was walked to the goalsquare after St Kilda committed dissent, while Treacy won a free kick.
If the Saints didn’t intercept the ball at the first instance, they ran it out of defensive 50 with ease, leaving too much work to Fremantle’s small forwards.
Taberner’s lone goal against St Kilda came from a 50 metre penalty. Picture: Darrian Traynor/Getty Images

Taberner’s lone goal against St Kilda came from a 50 metre penalty. Picture: Darrian Traynor/Getty Images
“It’s the question mark we have internally … what the right mix is with the forward line,” Dockers football operations and performance boss Bob Murphy told SEN on Monday. “(Before the St Kilda game) it had been building really nicely and looked damaging and dangerous.
“This forward group is still finding that water level of when to go, when to stay, reading each other’s body language. There’s a million things that go into that. We want to see a bigger sample size but we had enough supply. The boys will get back to work this week to try and find that alchemy and rhythm to kick a winning score.”
As alluded to, supply wasn’t the issue.
Fremantle won the inside 50 count 65-53, with around 40 of those coming in the second half for a result of two goals.
The problem was height, or an excess of.
Fremantle struggled to make the most of their height advantage. Picture: Darrian Traynor/Getty Images

Fremantle struggled to make the most of their height advantage. Picture: Darrian Traynor/Getty Images
Did Justin Longmuir sneak a look at Melbourne’s demolition of the Western Bulldogs at the MCG the night before the Dockers rolled up to Marvel Stadium? Because it was the perfect instance of foreshadowing.
The Dogs unleashed one of the tallest forward lines in AFL history. Former Docker Rory Lobb (207cm), young gun Sam Darcy (208cm), spearhead Aaron Naughton (196cm) and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan (197cm) looked menacing on paper.
In reality, they combined for 2.6 and five marks inside 50. And that was against a team without All-Australian defender Steven May.
Taberner (198cm), Fyfe (191cm), Jackson (199cm) and Treacy (195cm) weren’t much better.
That’s because they are somewhat foreign up forward.
Taberner took a few years to develop but has been a constant barring a fair share of injuries. At his best, he can kick seven goals in a game. But those outliers are interspersed by serviceable and sometimes ineffective performances.
Treacy looks like a player of the future. He’s got the frame and physicality to develop into an AFL key forward but he’s not there yet.
Treacy is still earning how to handle his frame and physicality at an AFL level. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Treacy is still earning how to handle his frame and physicality at an AFL level. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Jackson was drafted as a ruck and that’s where he has done his best work to date. The Dockers are hoping he can be influential up forward, but the reality is he may soon challenge Sean Darcy for the mantle of No.1 ruck.
And then there’s Fyfe.
An enigma who is undoubtedly one of the best midfielders of the past decade, if not in the history of the AFL, the 31-year-old is being remodelled as a forward.
He showed great potential during the pre-season but looked lost on Sunday. It forced Fremantle to defend the positional switch, especially when a two-time Brownlow medallist was stuck in attack when the midfield battle was in St Kilda’s favour.
“I think Nathan would say the same – it certainly wasn’t one of his more influential games but he’s probably the microcosm of this is a forward line that’s still finding its rhythm and there’s a human chemistry element involved,” Murphy said.
“I think it would be a little bit kneejerk after spending the entire summer and the back end of last year, Nathan preparing as a forward, he’s such a unique talent as we know. I think it just needs a little bit more and to panic and throw him into the midfield would have just been a bit shortsighted, in my view anyway.”
Fyfe struggled for possessions in attack, away from the contest in the midfield. Picture: Darrian Traynor/Getty Images

Fyfe struggled for possessions in attack, away from the contest in the midfield. Picture: Darrian Traynor/Getty Images
Longmuir has also stopped short of declaring a major shake-up of Fremantle’s forward line.
What is clear is that Michael Walters will likely play one more full game at WAFL level before he is deemed fit for selection. Then the Dockers simply must make room for him.
Unless Fremantle reaches the point of no return, Fyfe is undroppable. Jackson is required to back-up Darcy. That means one, if not maybe both, of Taberner and Treacy are expendable.
Is it time to unleash Jye Amiss? The prodigious top-10 pick has been overtaken in the pecking order but he could just be the most natural key forward on Fremantle’s list. In the smallest of sample sizes, Amiss rose to the occasion, hit the scoreboard and led up at the ball carrier.
Or is Sam Sturt the answer? The natural goal kicker is taller than you’d expect at 190cm but he’s versatile. The penny has dropped and he’s now applying the sort of pressure the Dockers have been craving.
It’s going to be a long week of reflection at Fremantle.
But the Dockers could do worse than look up Einstein’s definition of insanity.
 
Righteo all you match selection experts, everyone calling for heads i pose this question if chnges are made and the players that are bought in dont perform whats your next plan????

The emperor of Optus Brennan Cox and the as yet unveiled but carrying the entire future of the club on his back Tom Emmett
 

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I don’t have a footy background, and everything I’ve learnt about footy is from here 😕 and I’d constantly hear about forward craft and a natural forward, and yeah sure. I get that. Makes sense. I think I only really got what that meant when I got to see Amiss play his first game, live. I’d just expected it from guys like Walters, so maybe it didn’t stand out. But watching that skinny little baby out there (ok, against north) it was, oh. That’s a natural forward. That’s good. More of that. Play him when he available. Drop him when he needs a rest, but he’s already got IT. Just needs to get the experience. But then, everything I learnt about footy I learnt from big footy. So maybe not 😆
 
Freddy Jackson Sturt
Fyfe Amiss Walters

That's the six I would roll with. With a seventh forward on the bench that would ideally be another medium with speed/agility/marking ability. Unfortunately the cupboard is bare and it would be down to Emmett versus Kuek (taller than a medium, but has the genuine speed/agility unlike say Jackson and Fyfe). No to Banfield. No to Corbett (too straight line) unless Fyfe is injured or we abandon the forward plan and move him back into the guts.

I wouldn't be playing Schultz and Switta. Or at least one of them. The coach and most on here would think that ridiculous, but that's my opinion. Our forward line does not work and they are part of it. Battling smalls win people's hearts, but I would like to try something different.

I would bring Johnson and Erasmus into the side and move Chapman to the midfield, and have them all getting some time forward of the ball. O'Driscoll kicks goals as well.

Look at Collingwood on the weekend ... 1 x resting ruck, 1 x KPF (McStay), 1 x small KPF (Mihocek), 2 x smalls (Elliot and Hill), multiple mediums (WHE, McInnes, McCreery, DeGoey is a mid now but still gets down there, Lipinski when fit). Same setup as I am proposing.

Port only played 2 x smalls as well (Rioli and Fantasia) and go with that ruck-KPF-smallKPF type of size (Dixon-Marshall-Georgiades). They moved 186cm Jones forward, and have multiple players in the 185-190cm range (Rozee, SPP, Bergman, Duursma, JHF, Wines) who are mostly in the midfield but can find themselves in the forward area.

Other good attacks have different setups, but it's the one I would like to experiment with. The athletic 185-190cm range is a key area that we don't have enough representation in the forwards/midfield. But with Sturt, Johnson, Erasmus, O'Driscoll, Chapman, possibly Emmett/Kuek ... we could change the whole team balance (only 1 played on the weekend and that was in defence). JL would never be that adventurous, especially if it means more losses due to inexperience, but I think there needs to be a pretty big overhaul to our team structure.
 
Longmuir, J may be a conservative coach but effectively debuting a teenaged key forward in a final, after a 12-week layoff post surgery, doesn't shriek of someone completely unwilling to budge.

The thing that will change him will be the realisation that it's Taberner that Amiss is competing with, not Treacy, and that Taberner actually messes with our structure rather than is the key element of it.

Amiss will straighten us up.

Fyfe and Treacy can run around looking annoyed and seconds away from busting a campaigner. Amiss can lead to the feet of the ball-carrier. But only straight down the ****ing corridor.

Tabs can dominate for Peel.
 
Longmuir, J may be a conservative coach but effectively debuting a teenaged key forward in a final, after a 12-week layoff post surgery, doesn't shriek of someone completely unwilling to budge.

The thing that will change him will be the realisation that it's Taberner that Amiss is competing with, not Treacy, and that Taberner actually messes with our structure rather than is the key element of it.

Amiss will straighten us up.

Fyfe and Treacy can run around looking annoyed and seconds away from busting a campaigner. Amiss can lead to the feet of the ball-carrier. But only straight down the ******* corridor.

Tabs can dominate for Peel.
Your sir, are my new best friend with that type of thinking.

Happy Season 4 GIF by The Simpsons
 
The #1 biggest problem with the forward line was the way the ball was delivered and how long it took to get in there with a set defence.
The #2 problem was we were waaaaaaaay too tall
The #3 problem was that the tall forwards didn't know what they were doing/out of form/injured.

Sure, we might need a change or two in terms of personnel but we definitely have to give them a chance.
 
I find it confusing that we want Fyfe as a full time forward, and yet we don't seem to have the structure to support that.

I realise it's early days and am really happy at moves that can open a pathway for Johnson and Erasmus.

In the Saints game we looked much more predictable than is healthy I reckon.
 
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I think the sooner we can get to Jackson playing 40% mid/wing, 30% ruck, 10% forward and the rest resting, the better. While Fyfe isnt exactly his prime self, the mobility of him, Jackson and Treacy should be fine to make the extra height not an issue. Jackson also applies more than decent pressure. The issue isnt height, it's shoe-horning one too many gun footballers into non-preferred positions.

I also wouldnt overlook the effect Ross had on that game, I can promise you he'll make a lot of much more potent forwardlines look a lot worse than they are this year. St Kilda have the defensive cattle to do it as well.

The forwardline will look more like the two pre-season games (where they looked a lot better than previous years) over the next 5 weeks IMO.
 
As others have said, perhaps one of the reasons our ball movement is slow is because no-one forward of the ball looks like a good target to kick to.

If you watch us play live we have little offensive running to create space in the midfield. If a HB marks the ball and then gets caught up, inevitably there is a lot of walking around in front of him with little running to to create multiple leads. And so we kick down the line to a pack where we probably have both our rucks standing about 2 metres apart.

People talk about it being hard to play as a forward in our team. It's probably bloody hard to play as a half-back when you look up and all you see in front of you is our forwards literally wandering around down the line.
 

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And between 2016-2019 we averaged 10 goals a game....so an improvement of one goal per game over 7 years......
What saved us last year was the fact that we had the lowest average goals against. Our whole season will derail if we end up with a couple of injuries to key defenders.
Essentially, we are as boring as bat s**t.

The weird thing is, it shouldn't be hard to average 12 goals a game in attack, Even with our forward line.

If this was a 22 game season, Again there should be an even spread.

4 goals a game from our talls, 4 goals a game from our smalls and 4 goals a game from our midfielders.

4 times 22 is 88 goals.

But looking at the talls: Traecy or Josh Corbett could kick 25 goals in a season this year. Luke Jackson could kick 30, Taberner could kick 33.

Looking at the Smalls: Last season Schulz kicked 30, Frederick kicked 28. thats 58 goals right there. Walters kicked 25 goals last season, he could kick 30. There's your 88 goals for the smalls.

Midfield kicking 4 goals a game isnt too unrealistic, guys like Coyler, Clarke, Aish, Fyfe, Serong, Brayshaw and Broadie have kicked goals for the dockers last season.

But I specifically look at freos 2013-15 teams...

Dockers kicked 93 points a game in attack in the regular season in 2013. thats 13 goals and 15 behinds a game. Dockers kicked 2029 points in the regular season or 92 points or 13.14.92 a game in 2014. In 2015 it was 1857 points or 84.4 points a game, likely 12.12.84 our average score.
 
Sumich coached s handy midfield. But my post isn't specifically about the forward line coach. It references game plan and our transition style.
Didnt we have ex eagle Mark Le Cras as our forward line coach last season? or was that 2 or 3 years before that?

I knew he was at freo at one point
 
The weird thing is, it shouldn't be hard to average 12 goals a game in attack, Even with our forward line.

If this was a 22 game season, Again there should be an even spread.

4 goals a game from our talls, 4 goals a game from our smalls and 4 goals a game from our midfielders.

4 times 22 is 88 goals.

But looking at the talls: Traecy or Josh Corbett could kick 25 goals in a season this year. Luke Jackson could kick 30, Taberner could kick 33.

Looking at the Smalls: Last season Schulz kicked 30, Frederick kicked 28. thats 58 goals right there. Walters kicked 25 goals last season, he could kick 30. There's your 88 goals for the smalls.

Midfield kicking 4 goals a game isnt too unrealistic, guys like Coyler, Clarke, Aish, Fyfe, Serong, Brayshaw and Broadie have kicked goals for the dockers last season.

But I specifically look at freos 2013-15 teams...

Dockers kicked 93 points a game in attack in the regular season in 2013. thats 13 goals and 15 behinds a game. Dockers kicked 2029 points in the regular season or 92 points or 13.14.92 a game in 2014. In 2015 it was 1857 points or 84.4 points a game, likely 12.12.84 our average score.
Agree with all that :)
As I said, we are as boring as bat shit. If you look at the "magic" 100 point games....last season we kicked 100+ points only 4 times....the same as we did in 2016 :(
 
Agree with all that :)
As I said, we are as boring as bat s**t. If you look at the "magic" 100 point games....last season we kicked 100+ points only 4 times....the same as we did in 2016 :(

Here is an interesting stat. In those 22 games freo played in 2013, which was the year we made the grand final, the dockers kicked 100 points or more only 10 times and a couple of them were games we scored 120 points or more. Also it could of been 11 because we had one game we won scoring 99 points.
 
The weird thing is, it shouldn't be hard to average 12 goals a game in attack, Even with our forward line.

If this was a 22 game season, Again there should be an even spread.

4 goals a game from our talls, 4 goals a game from our smalls and 4 goals a game from our midfielders.

4 times 22 is 88 goals.

But looking at the talls: Traecy or Josh Corbett could kick 25 goals in a season this year. Luke Jackson could kick 30, Taberner could kick 33.

Looking at the Smalls: Last season Schulz kicked 30, Frederick kicked 28. thats 58 goals right there. Walters kicked 25 goals last season, he could kick 30. There's your 88 goals for the smalls.

Midfield kicking 4 goals a game isnt too unrealistic, guys like Coyler, Clarke, Aish, Fyfe, Serong, Brayshaw and Broadie have kicked goals for the dockers last season.

But I specifically look at freos 2013-15 teams...

Dockers kicked 93 points a game in attack in the regular season in 2013. thats 13 goals and 15 behinds a game. Dockers kicked 2029 points in the regular season or 92 points or 13.14.92 a game in 2014. In 2015 it was 1857 points or 84.4 points a game, likely 12.12.84 our average score.
Feel like Schultz, Switta and Frederick get us to four goals a game from smalls alone based off last season tbh. Even this week when we scored seven as a team they got it done.

By this logic these guys aren't the problem and tbh I'd agree. I'd like to have an extra medium forward in the side and expect five goals from four players tbh.

Getting four goals a game from talls is a pipe dream though tbh.
 
Feel like Schultz, Switta and Frederick get us to four goals a game from smalls alone based off last season tbh. Even this week when we scored seven as a team they got it done.

By this logic these guys aren't the problem and tbh I'd agree. I'd like to have an extra medium forward in the side and expect five goals from four players tbh.

Getting four goals a game from talls is a pipe dream though tbh.

The weird thing is and yes I am gonna bring up our 2012-15 finals side under Ross Lyon again.

that 2012-15 finals side was heavily reliant on An Ageing Matty Pavlich as our only tall forward over 190 cm. Chris mayne who was our Centre half forward where at all other clubs would be a 3rd tall on a forward flank, Ballantyne who was a mature ager Small forward and Walters who was slowly developing to a very good small forward.


Getting 3 talls to kick 88 goals last season should not of been hard. Yes Lobb kicked 36, Taberner would of easily kicked 30 goals last season had he played 20-22 games. Then SO thats already 66 goals there. Traecy or Amiss rotating as a 3rd tall and both playing 10-12 games each last season easily would of got 20-22 goals.

Even this season... Taberner and Jackson could kick 66 goals between them. and Traecy or Amiss or Corbett finding a way to play 20 games and kick 20-25 goals.
 
Here is an interesting stat. In those 22 games freo played in 2013, which was the year we made the grand final, the dockers kicked 100 points or more only 10 times and a couple of them were games we scored 120 points or more. Also it could of been 11 because we had one game we won scoring 99 points.
Preaching to the choir mate :)
We are more defensive and much less attacking now that we have ever been. As I said earlier, we are a couple of injuries to key defenders away from 14th spot sadly.
 
Preaching to the choir mate :)
We are more defensive and much less attacking now that we have ever been. As I said earlier, we are a couple of injuries to key defenders away from 14th spot sadly.
yep... hindsight looking back.. trading way griffin logue was a bad move.

I wished we gave him a 2 year extension at the end of 2021...

But its crazy. We lost acres and Tucker for next to nothing and both would be handy up a forward flank right now.
 
Gameplan is of course important but to say our problem is 90% coaching is way over the top. Graham and JL are too good for that - I guarantee they're not coaching players to stand idle, drop marks, stay too far off the contest, miss easy shots etc, etc.
I have seen Fyfe, Taberner, Treacy and Jackson take marks. I've seen them take strong skilled marks at AFL level. An anomaly.
 

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