2024/25 Championship, Lower, Non-League & EFL Trophy - On BeIN Sports and iFollow

[Upstart Swan]

We should just play like that every game.

Well, hopefully not next game.

Coventry have now quietly snuck up to just 3 points (maybe 4 depending on Middlesbrough's result) outside the playoff spots.

 

[moomba]

Quite the finish by Giles for the Sunderland winner. Think a few premier league clubs could do with technical ability like that.

 

[SM]

Quite the finish by Giles for the Sunderland winner. Think a few premier league clubs could do with technical ability like that.

Serves the twat right.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Always good to win the local derby especially when it's a 6 pointer. It's unlikely we'll make top 3 but we've consolidated our position in the top 7.

 

[SM]

Always good to win the local derby especially when it's a 6 pointer. It's unlikely we'll make top 3 but we've consolidated our position in the top 7.

Looks like Leake doing well for you.

 

[berisha]

Our (Burnley) scoring is so bad we had to rely on an own goal to beat Oxford at home.

 

[SM]

Our (Burnley) scoring is so bad we had to rely on an own goal to beat Oxford at home.

I don't know how you watch it.

 

[berisha]

I don't know how you watch it.

This is the first season where I've made very little effort to do so. It's not worth the time.

 

[RossFC]

From SkySports

 

[Bradesmaen]

So is Fat Frank the new Steve Bruce? Championship level manager

 

[moomba]

From SkySports
View attachment 2219495

As it should be.

 

[joop]

damn that really could’ve been back to back 7-0 wins.

 

[Jatz]

As it should be.

Disagree on that. Getting into the EFL should be difficult.

 

[Upstart Swan]

damn that really could’ve been back to back 7-0 wins.

RB Leeds too good, men against boys stuff

 

[Upstart Swan]

So is Fat Frank the new Steve Bruce? Championship level manager

Yes. Mid-table Championship level manager.

 

[SM]

If the National League has 3 promotion spots then why not just make it League 3? Need something to differentiate the football league from the national league surely.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

If the National League has 3 promotion spots then why not just make it League 3? Need something to differentiate the football league from the national league surely.

Some NL teams are still semi pro but obviously low chance of getting promoted. Think some also have plastic pitches which EFL won't allow.

But mainly i think L1/L2 teams will not want to share funds. TV rights which is fairly small as is and then you would have to have another layer of parachute payments to relegated L3 teams plus Solidarity payments which last season added up to 10-15m for L2

 

[joop]

RB Leeds too good, men against boys stuff

You guys did have a few good chances still, but yeh scoreline could’ve been much worse.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Some NL teams are still semi pro but obviously low chance of getting promoted. Think some also have plastic pitches which EFL won't allow.

But mainly i think L1/L2 teams will not want to share funds. TV rights which is fairly small as is and then you would have to have another layer of parachute payments to relegated L3 teams plus Solidarity payments which last season added up to 10-15m for L2

I'm happy to be corrected but I believe all the National League teams are fully pro. It's when you get to the NL North and South that it gets semi-pro. NL grounds are generally good standard with a few of them having higher capacity than PL Bournemouth. I think Fylde is the only NL club that plays on plastic but they are more likely to be relegated than promoted.

There's not a whole lot separating the top NL sides with League 2. Last year's promoted teams, Chesterfield and Bromley are holding their own. The season before, Wrexham got back to back promotions. The other promoted team in 2023-24, Notts County are pushing for promotion this year.

It seems anomalous that there's four up four down between League 2 and League 1 but only two teams promoted from the NL. It think the logical split between the different rules should be whether the league is countrywide. Call it League 3, whatever. But you might be right that the pushback is about the funding rather than fairness.

 

[SM]

I'm happy to be corrected but I believe all the National League teams are fully pro. It's when you get to the NL North and South that it gets semi-pro. NL grounds are generally good standard with a few of them having higher capacity than PL Bournemouth. I think Fylde is the only NL club that plays on plastic but they are more likely to be relegated than promoted.

There's not a whole lot separating the top NL sides with League 2. Last year's promoted teams, Chesterfield and Bromley are holding their own. The season before, Wrexham got back to back promotions. The other promoted team in 2023-24, Notts County are pushing for promotion this year.

It seems anomalous that there's four up four down between League 2 and League 1 but only two teams promoted from the NL. It think the logical split between the different rules should be whether the league is countrywide. Call it League 3, whatever. But you might be right that the pushback is about the funding rather than fairness.

Yes Tamworth are semi pro.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I'm happy to be corrected but I believe all the National League teams are fully pro. It's when you get to the NL North and South that it gets semi-pro. NL grounds are generally good standard with a few of them having higher capacity than PL Bournemouth. I think Fylde is the only NL club that plays on plastic but they are more likely to be relegated than promoted.

There's not a whole lot separating the top NL sides with League 2. Last year's promoted teams, Chesterfield and Bromley are holding their own. The season before, Wrexham got back to back promotions. The other promoted team in 2023-24, Notts County are pushing for promotion this year.

It seems anomalous that there's four up four down between League 2 and League 1 but only two teams promoted from the NL. It think the logical split between the different rules should be whether the league is countrywide. Call it League 3, whatever. But you might be right that the pushback is about the funding rather than fairness.

Tamworth as SM said and they have a plastic pitch. Maidenhead and Wealdstone and I think couple of others

 

[CURVE]

I'm happy to be corrected but I believe all the National League teams are fully pro. It's when you get to the NL North and South that it gets semi-pro. NL grounds are generally good standard with a few of them having higher capacity than PL Bournemouth. I think Fylde is the only NL club that plays on plastic but they are more likely to be relegated than promoted.

There's not a whole lot separating the top NL sides with League 2. Last year's promoted teams, Chesterfield and Bromley are holding their own. The season before, Wrexham got back to back promotions. The other promoted team in 2023-24, Notts County are pushing for promotion this year.

It seems anomalous that there's four up four down between League 2 and League 1 but only two teams promoted from the NL. It think the logical split between the different rules should be whether the league is countrywide. Call it League 3, whatever. But you might be right that the pushback is about the funding rather than fairness.

There was a YouTube video about this released by HITC Sevens, it was two ago so it may not be totally accurate today, but it wouldn't be too far off. Back in 2022/23, 21 of the 24 clubs of the National League Clubs were fully professional.



I don't agree with increasing the NL promotion places to three primarily because I don't think the smaller club that have been working their way through the non-league tiers over the last 30-40 years can maintain the required level of sustainability in the higher leagues, not because they don't have a wealthy benefactor who can support them, but because the EFL is more tightly regulated than the non-leagues, and there are more restrictions in what a wealthy owner can and can't do, and I believe some of these restrictions also relate to the crowd numbers, and these clubs don't necessarily have the history and support to allow them to compete consistently.

In the last 30-35 years the EFL has seen clubs like Yeovil Town, Scarborough, Kidderminster, Salford City, Rushden & Diamonds, Crawley Town, Fleetwood Town, Sutton United, Burton Albion and Stevenage all worked their way from 6th, 7th or 8th tiers to win promotion to the Football League and most fell back into non-league football within 5-10 years. There have been exceptions like Burton Albion who made it all the way the Championship in 2015/16 and have stabilized in League One over the last 7/8 seasons and Stevenage who are currently in League One also, but there are more clubs like Yeovil Town, Boston United, Maidstone and Scarborough that are back down in the 6th or 7th tiers, or worse still no longer in operation. Of course, this is happening with more traditional EFL clubs as well, like Bury who folded in 2021 and Oldham, Stockport, Southend and S(unthorpe who all find themselves in the National League or lower this season, but the improved regulation's the EFL have bought in over the last few years appear to be working in keeping a lot of football clubs from closing their doors for good.

The growth of the league and the money that is being generated in the fifth tier demands it will happen and perhaps within the next 4/5 years, but if my club, Carlisle United are relegation to the National League this season (and we are one of the favourites for relegation) then hopefully it will be fast tracked to next season.

 

[Frank Bunn]

There was a YouTube video about this released by HITC Sevens, it was two ago so it may not be totally accurate today, but it wouldn't be too far off. Back in 2022/23, 21 of the 24 clubs of the National League Clubs were fully professional.



I don't agree with increasing the NL promotion places to three primarily because I don't think the smaller club that have been working their way through the non-league tiers over the last 30-40 years can maintain the required level of sustainability in the higher leagues, not because they don't have a wealthy benefactor who can support them, but because the EFL is more tightly regulated than the non-leagues, and there are more restrictions in what a wealthy owner can and can't do, and I believe some of these restrictions also relate to the crowd numbers, and these clubs don't necessarily have the history and support to allow them to compete consistently.

In the last 30-35 years the EFL has seen clubs like Yeovil Town, Scarborough, Kidderminster, Salford City, Rushden & Diamonds, Crawley Town, Fleetwood Town, Sutton United, Burton Albion and Stevenage all worked their way from 6th, 7th or 8th tiers to win promotion to the Football League and most fell back into non-league football within 5-10 years. There have been exceptions like Burton Albion who made it all the way the Championship in 2015/16 and have stabilized in League One over the last 7/8 seasons and Stevenage who are currently in League One also, but there are more clubs like Yeovil Town, Boston United, Maidstone and Scarborough that are back down in the 6th or 7th tiers, or worse still no longer in operation. Of course, this is happening with more traditional EFL clubs as well, like Bury who folded in 2021 and Oldham, Stockport, Southend and S(unthorpe who all find themselves in the National League or lower this season, but the improved regulation's the EFL have bought in over the last few years appear to be working in keeping a lot of football clubs from closing their doors for good.

The growth of the league and the money that is being generated in the fifth tier demands it will happen and perhaps within the next 4/5 years, but if my club, Carlisle United are relegation to the National League this season (and we are one of the favourites for relegation) then hopefully it will be fast tracked to next season.

Thanks for posting that video. 30 years is probably going back too far. As he explains, things have changed in recent years. Crowds are up. It's very professional.

I looked at the fate of the promoted NL teams in the last 10 seasons to give an indication of whether another promotion place might be justified.

5 clubs are in L1 with 3 of them in contention for promotion to the Championship.
10 clubs are in L2.
4 clubs are back in the NL with 2 of them in strong positions for promotion.
1 club wound up.

(Grimsby appears twice)

Spoiler

2023–24
Chesterfield - L2 9th
Bromley - L2 16th

2022 – 2023
Wrexham - L1 3rd
Notts County L2 3rd

2021–22
Stockport County L1 4th
Grimsby Town L2 10th

2020–21
Sutton United NL 10th
Hartlepool United NL 12th

2019–20
Barrow L2 19th
Harrogate Town L2 20th

2018–19
Leyton Orient L1 6th
Salford City L2 8th

2017–18
Macclesfield Town. Wound-up in 2020.
Tranmere Rovers L2 22nd

2016–17
Lincoln City L1 12th
Forest Green Rovers NL 2nd

2015–16
Cheltenham Town L2 12th
Grimsby Town L2 10th

2014–15
Barnet NL 1st
Bristol Rovers L1 19th

 

[CURVE]

Thanks for posting that video. 30 years is probably going back too far. As he explains, things have changed in recent years. Crowds are up. It's very professional.

I looked at the fate of the promoted NL teams in the last 10 seasons to give an indication of whether another promotion place might be justified.

5 clubs are in L1 with 3 of them in contention for promotion to the Championship.
10 clubs are in L2.
4 clubs are back in the NL with 2 of them in strong positions for promotion.
1 club wound up.

(Grimsby appears twice)

Spoiler

2023–24
Chesterfield - L2 9th
Bromley - L2 16th

2022 – 2023
Wrexham - L1 3rd
Notts County L2 3rd

2021–22
Stockport County L1 4th
Grimsby Town L2 10th

2020–21
Sutton United NL 10th
Hartlepool United NL 12th

2019–20
Barrow L2 19th
Harrogate Town L2 20th

2018–19
Leyton Orient L1 6th
Salford City L2 8th

2017–18
Macclesfield Town. Wound-up in 2020.
Tranmere Rovers L2 22nd

2016–17
Lincoln City L1 12th
Forest Green Rovers NL 2nd

2015–16
Cheltenham Town L2 12th
Grimsby Town L2 10th

2014–15
Barnet NL 1st
Bristol Rovers L1 19th

No worries, it's a very informative video. I found myself watching a lot of his stuff because he does a lot of research before posting them, and his "What On Earth is going on at..." series has been very informative, although he hasn't done one about Carlisle yet.

It's a shame you didn't go back a year further, in 2013/14 Luton Town won Promotion from National League and they are currently in the Championship after reaching the EPL last season.

Looking at your list of teams that have won promotion to the Football League, a majority of them would be considered "Traditional" EFL teams, that had long histories in the Football League before finding trouble in the last 10-15 years. Clubs like Notts County (joined the League in 1888 - the first season), Grimsby Town (1892), Lincoln City (1892), Chesterfield (1899), Stockport County (1900) and Leyton Orient (1905) have been Football League clubs since the early formative years of the 1880's to 1900's, while Hartlepool, Wrexham, Tranmere Rovers and Bristol Rovers (all 1921) have been part of the football league since formation of the 3rd Tier which was originally made up of separate North and South Divisions until 1958.

I agree that the National League is more professional than it was 30 years, but I still think it will be very difficult for these small clubs that have come up through non-leagues to remain sustainable for any length of time.

 

[CURVE]

Former Wales manager Mark Hughes first game in charge of Carlisle ended with a 2-1 defeat keeping us anchored at the bottom of League Two.