Play Nice 2024 AFL and State League Attendance

[Air_Chester]

Essendon were still in the finals race going into that match. If they'd won they would've been out of the finals only percentage behind Adelaide.

Mathematically yes, but it involved a bunch of unrealistic results like Essendon going to Perth and beating the reigning premiers, or Saints losing to last placed Richmond, or making up the 20% gap between themselves and Adelaide. Even as a fantasy believing teenager I remember knowing there was no realistic chance.

But writing this did remind me that Richmond were 6 points clear in dead last at the time of the game. So still an incredible turnout.

 

[kranger]

Biggest H&A crowds of all time:

• 1). Melb vs Coll (99,256) = 1958
• 2). Coll vs Ess (95,179) = 2023
• 3). Coll vs Ess (94,825) = 1995
• 4). Ess vs Coll (93,644) = 2024
• 5). Ess vs Coll (93,373) = 2013
• 6). Haw vs Coll (92,935) = 1981
• 7). Rich vs Coll (92,436) = 1977
• 8). Rich vs Haw (92,311) = 2024
• 9). Ess vs Coll (92,241) = 2019
• 10). Coll vs Ess (91,731) = 2014
• 11). Carl vs Ess (91,571) = 2000
• 12). Coll vs Ess (91,440) = 2018
• 13). Coll vs Ess (91,234) = 2006
• 14). Rich vs Ess (90,564) = 1982
• 15). Ess vs Coll (90,508) = 2007
• 16). Rich vs Carl (90,151) = 2018
• 17). Coll vs Ess (90,070) = 2010
• 18). Ess vs Coll (89,626) = 2011
• 19). Coll vs Ess (88,999) = 2008
• 20). Ess vs Carl (88,510) = 2024

I don’t want to take away from tonight’s massive Richmond vs Hawks crowd, but I just can’t help but think about that 1958 crowd.

Round 10 1958 | Demonwiki

Demonwiki.org is the ultimate resource for Melbourne Demons fans. Explore team history, player profiles, match results, and more. Stay updated with the latest news on the Demons.

demonwiki.org

It was bigger than the GF later that year between the same two teams, that lead to the Collywoobles.

It was 41,000 bigger than any previous H&A crowd. And nothing got close to it for a further 19 years in 1977.

It obviously wasn’t the all time record crowd at the time, that belonged to the 1956 GF, so crowds of over 100,000 weren’t unheard of, but it was just so massive for a H&A crowd, even if it was the Queens Birthday game.

 

[Hawkk]

I don’t want to take away from tonight’s massive Richmond vs Hawks crowd, but I just can’t help but think about that 1958 crowd.

Round 10 1958 | Demonwiki

Demonwiki.org is the ultimate resource for Melbourne Demons fans. Explore team history, player profiles, match results, and more. Stay updated with the latest news on the Demons.

demonwiki.org

It was bigger than the GF later that year between the same two teams, that lead to the Collywoobles.

It was 41,000 bigger than any previous H&A crowd. And nothing got close to it for a further 19 years in 1977.

It obviously wasn’t the all time record crowd at the time, that belonged to the 1956 GF, so crowds of over 100,000 wasn’t unheard of, but it was just so massive for a H&A crowd, even if it was the Queens Birthday game.

The Dees drew almost 22% of the total VFL attendance in 1958, and more than 25% in 1964!

That level of dominance dwarfs anything that Collingwood has achieved (or Richmond from ‘67-82)

No other VFL club has climbed so high and then dropped so far as Melbourne (apart from perhaps the Swans after the 1930’s).

All other clubs that enter periods of wilderness (ie Richmond and Carlton) keep their core, as per Geelong’s report to the AFL a decade ago:

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/GeelongCats/Club%20HQ/GFC%20Equalisation%20for%20Web%20Feb%202013.pdf

The huge differences in size of supporter base between clubs have been established over 100 years. They are not amenable to change in the short or even medium term even with "good management" or giving a club more funding to spend on projects. Similarly, in the newer states to the national competition, the first- established AFL clubs will hold advantage over their newer competitors for many decades and perhaps forever.

The 'size of supporter base' correlates with all club revenue sources – members, attendees, coteries and even sponsorship income. It is logical - if a club has four times as many supporters as another club, it is likely to have many more supporters among CEOs and marketing directors as well as among members.

Data suggests that over half of supporters follow their parent's team. There is little evidence that the relative size of supporter bases has moved much between clubs over the last 50 years. A few clubs may have lost a little ground after decades of poor performance and arguably only one club has gained due to a level of sustained on-field success 30 years ago that cannot be repeated.

There is even evidence that some smaller clubs have done a relatively better job than some of the larger clubs – such as converting a higher proportion of their supporters to members and often getting a higher yield per member. As well, some of the smaller clubs have achieved better win/loss records over the recent decades than have some of the stronger clubs and it isn't plausible to argue that they can do this consistently with inferior management.

 

[kranger]

I don’t want to take away from tonight’s massive Richmond vs Hawks crowd, but I just can’t help but think about that 1958 crowd.

Round 10 1958 | Demonwiki

Demonwiki.org is the ultimate resource for Melbourne Demons fans. Explore team history, player profiles, match results, and more. Stay updated with the latest news on the Demons.

demonwiki.org

It was bigger than the GF later that year between the same two teams, that lead to the Collywoobles.

It was 41,000 bigger than any previous H&A crowd. And nothing got close to it for a further 19 years in 1977.

It obviously wasn’t the all time record crowd at the time, that belonged to the 1956 GF, so crowds of over 100,000 weren’t unheard of, but it was just so massive for a H&A crowd, even if it was the Queens Birthday game.

There is ofcourse one obviously factor for why this crowd stands out so much, which is that only the Demons were playing homes games at the MCG. So every other team were selling out their suburban grounds (with capacity of under 50,000) for games that might have as much hype.

But still, no other Queens Birthday games (which seemed to be the biggest crowd every year) were getting close either.

Edit: I wonder, what game in history would have got the largest crowd, if the stadium capacity was not a consideration. And what that crowd number would have been.

 

[Peacock]

Holy Shit! How did they get past 90k?

Because it was a social event of everyone wanting to say that they were at his 300th rather than it being about the actual game.

I guess Rich got what they wanted which was a big crowd and plenty of cash. Got to feel for Yze, faking Dusty's illness last week has made the rest of the season probably a write off. When it was time for the players to dig in today, no doubt in the back of their minds they knew the club cared more about dollars and couldn't be bothered

Just a little reminder of the might of the Tiger Army with the talk of the “big 3” this year.

Insane! - well Done Tiger Army.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Well done Tigers, the big 3 have taken note

There was some minor debate about the early plans of rebuilding the Southern stands that how many more seats they should add, even if a few thousand seats adds a significant financial cost, when very few games a year actually hid 85k+ a year or whatever.

I think this season has proven that that's the go, and the Southern stand should have 5-10k more. It's great to think that in 15 years time how a similar crowd could be 105,000 people instead.

It always comes down to a debate on whether you want more seats or more leg room. I know when they rebuilt the Northern Stand all the research they did said it was important for fans to have the capacity over 100k. I'd love to rip all the seats out of the ground level of the Ponsford and make it all standing room, with a rebuild of the Southern Stand that could get capacity up to 120k

 

[Kangapirate]

The crowds in Melbourne are just insane these days.

I was just randomly looking at MCG crowds from season 1999 on wiki the other day, Richmond v Carlton 34,000 (scoreboard catches fire). Carlton v Collingwood 53,000, Collingwood v Essendon 56,000, Essendon v Richmond 48,000. Hell Carlton barely get half the legends stand filled for games at Princes park. Queens birthday only gets 40,000. The crowds arent much better in 2000 and the early 2000s.

I know the population has grown by a couple milliion but such low attendances would be unthinkable now. I even went to youtube and specifically looked up these games and yep its an empty seat fest. Also very male dominated crowds, way more women/kids attend now.

 

[dave10]

I was thinking last week if it gets 80K it would be a great crowd but when I got into the ground and saw the top deck in all stands "last rows" being filled through out, thought to myself, this might top 90K. So to get 92,311 was insane.

I think all the talk of the blues, pies and bombers more so all being in the 8 at the same time and getting very good crowds. How would it be if the tigers were also in the 8 and all big 4 clubs playing each other, good luck trying to get a ticket.

I’m not exaggerating when I argue there’s an increasingly sound business case for an MCG with 110,000 capacity. Until Covid the ground was ‘full’ 5-6 times a year: ANZAC, 2-3 H&A and 2-3 finals. Now it’s 10-15. Several drivers noted above but it gives more confidence around the economics and sustainability of a need for bigger stadium. Especially with stadium now wanting big concerts over summer. An MCG redevelopment likely will provide 5,000 more seats but it could be more.

 

[dave10]

100%

Insane, and also shows just how special a player Martin is for Richmond (like Hird for Essendon)

Cotchin’s 300th drew 30,000 less in almost identifical circumstances (62,686 against the Saints last year)

But Martin is next level, probably the closest example to a Leigh Matthews type figure. At least in big games.


True, even without Martin’s 300th the game would have drawn in the 60,000’s.

Despite being a replacement game, Hawthorn members were locked out of today’s game - so the overfill could have been much higher without the special occasion.

Seven of Hawthorn’s last 15 MCG home and away games have now drawn 65,000 or more (with the next 3 games scheduled against Carlton, Collingwood and Richmond).

In fact, the Hawks are now pulling comparable MCG crowds to the three-peat years with plenty of growth left in those numbers!

Thats true. It’s hard to now compare accurately years past Cs current for the more mouthwatering MCG games. The accessibility of various crowd sources are growing, the game is more popular and the MCC have increased usage of its reserve. Also, footy fans in general I think are attending more games as neutrals. Further, in recent years clubs are offering home membership packages that now tack ‘away’ GA access onto the features list meaning games are attracting more fans of the away team. It’s been a quantum shift and the crowds are evidence.

I’d say moving forward we will see MCG games that have any real significance exceed expectations. It’s certainly a watch that’s for sure.

 

[Fletched]

Lots more potential 80k+ crowds coming, depends on form finals milestones etc

Cats vs carlton
Geelong vs essendon
Richmond vs Carlton
Collingwood vs essendon
Collingwood vs Geelong
Melbourne vs essendon
hawthorn vs colingwood
Collingwood vs richmond
Collingwood vs Carlton
Carlton vs hawthorn
Collingwood vs Brisbane
Richmond vs suns
Melbourne vs collingwood

 

[ep12]

There were a few things that worked really well for getting over 90k yesterday that can’t be forgotten.

The big one was that the MCC was a Category 3 game which meant provisionals had full access to all levels and could also get 4 visitor tickets and it was the first time the reserve wasn’t threadbare on level 4 from double dipping in big games.

Really shows the difference between what has happened with Category 1 games this year and why the reserve isn’t at capacity. This has been rectified though because they announced a couple days ago that 10,000 provisionals are being made restricted in July.

The other thing that was really smart was giving the people who bought GA tickets a reserved seat in what would have been a GA bay to give them the security of a seat. Prevents people who had GA tickets from not going or being forced to double up on a reserved seat.

Well done to both sets of supporters, it did feel like Hawthorn fans showed up in good numbers too. Suspect it was a 55K-30K split with the rest neutrals.

 

[What else we can do]

Dusty is the Lionel Messi of the AFL probably the best most exciting player ever to play the game.

 

[Hawkk]

There were a few things that worked really well for getting over 90k yesterday that can’t be forgotten.

The big one was that the MCC was a Category 3 game which meant provisionals had full access to all levels and could also get 4 visitor tickets and it was the first time the reserve wasn’t threadbare on level 4 from double dipping in big games.

Really shows the difference between what has happened with Category 1 games this year and why the reserve isn’t at capacity. This has been rectified though because they announced a couple days ago that 10,000 provisionals are being made restricted in July.

The other thing that was really smart was giving the people who bought GA tickets a reserved seat in what would have been a GA bay to give them the security of a seat. Prevents people who had GA tickets from not going or being forced to double up on a reserved seat.

Well done to both sets of supporters, it did feel like Hawthorn fans showed up in good numbers too. Suspect it was a 55-30 split with the rest neutrals.

100%

I was surprised it was a category 3 to be honest, when the floor attendance for the fixture is still 57,000.

But I assume that most non marquee fixtures not involving Melbourne (or Essendon) are probably category 3 games?

 

[What else we can do]

There were a few things that worked really well for getting over 90k yesterday that can’t be forgotten.

The big one was that the MCC was a Category 3 game which meant provisionals had full access to all levels and could also get 4 visitor tickets and it was the first time the reserve wasn’t threadbare on level 4 from double dipping in big games.

Really shows the difference between what has happened with Category 1 games this year and why the reserve isn’t at capacity. This has been rectified though because they announced a couple days ago that 10,000 provisionals are being made restricted in July.

The other thing that was really smart was giving the people who bought GA tickets a reserved seat in what would have been a GA bay to give them the security of a seat. Prevents people who had GA tickets from not going or being forced to double up on a reserved seat.

Well done to both sets of supporters, it did feel like Hawthorn fans showed up in good numbers too. Suspect it was a 55-30 split with the rest neutrals.

Do neutrals who have reserved seats determine if the crowd goes beyond 90,000 in a fully ticketed game?

 

[ep12]

Do neutrals who have reserved seats determine if the crowd goes beyond 90,000 in a fully ticketed game?

Not really, its usually reserved seat members not showing up (and they were packed yesterday), empty Medallion Club seats and AFL/MCC members not showing up that prevent games from getting to 90K.

 

[ep12]

100%

I was surprised it was a category 3 to be honest, when the floor attendance for the fixture is still 57,000.

But I assume that most non marquee fixtures not involving Melbourne (or Essendon) are probably category 3 games?

Richmond home games have terrible MCC turnouts so I think it was fine that it was Category 3.

 

[What else we can do]

Not really, its usually reserved seat members not showing up (and they were packed yesterday), empty Medallion Club seats and AFL/MCC members not showing up that prevent games from getting to 90K.

Forget about Carlton v Collingwood getting beyond 90k in a H/A game no neutral supporter is going to watch the two most hated teams.

 

[Hawkk]

Thats true. It’s hard to now compare accurately years past Cs current for the more mouthwatering MCG games. The accessibility of various crowd sources are growing, the game is more popular and the MCC have increased usage of its reserve. Also, footy fans in general I think are attending more games as neutrals. Further, in recent years clubs are offering home membership packages that now tack ‘away’ GA access onto the features list meaning games are attracting more fans of the away team. It’s been a quantum shift and the crowds are evidence.

I’d say moving forward we will see MCG games that have any real significance exceed expectations. It’s certainly a watch that’s for sure.

And yet the non blockbuster games haven’t grown much in over 30 years - ala Dogs v Dockers yesterday.

But that might have more to do with the unpopularity of Marvel. If the AFL could make Marvel popular it would hugely help drive additional attendance growth.

Forget about Carlton v Collingwood getting beyond 90k in a H/A game no neutral supporter is going to watch the two most hated teams.

I call B-S on that.

I can tell you, if Carlton and Collingwood made the GF, the MCC grand final line would have been crazy. Major issue for that fixture is that the game is literally sold out months before the game

 

[AstuteTiger]

Richmond home games have terrible MCC turnouts so I think it was fine that it was Category 3.

Out of curiosity were you there yesterday? I heard over the announcement all GA ticket holders can sit on all 3 levels.
and i thought how good is that whereby most of the stadium needed to book tickets (reserved seats).

Lets cut out the supposed crowd splits, that's normally a gopies thing. 14-15K neutrals yeah nah maybe if you said on a game like MND queens birthday or even Anzac day with significant meaning which lets be honest has more universal appeal than a teams player achieving 300 games. Many of us have spoken prior about neutrals 5-10K depending on the game but anyone suggesting 15-20K is just way off base.

You may well be right previous times our attendance in MCC is just ok but i dare say for yesterday I would disagree with your assertion. I thought it was predominately of yellow and black. I don't think you quite understand the level of Richmond supporters snapping up tickets wherever they could, for dustys 300th, it was insane like getting finals tickets. I do feel for hawk supporters as many were locked out. I had hawks mates who couldnt even get tickets at start of week. Richmond supporters could get tickets right up to the day before and then that was it all gone.

Richmond Club members were also able to buy into the AFL reserve (top deck). AFL Richmond club support members also were able to buy into ponsford/city end Q36 due to the level of demand from Richmond members they just had to be there to celebrate one of greatest players if not our greatest. .

 

[What else we can do]

And yet the non blockbuster games haven’t grown much in over 30 years - ala Dogs v Dockers yesterday.

But that might have more to do with the unpopularity of Marvel. If the AFL could make Marvel popular it would hugely help drive additional attendance growth.


I call B-S on that.

I can tell you, if Carlton and Collingwood made the GF, the MCC grand final line would have been crazy. Major issue for that fixture is that the game is literally sold out months before the game

I clearly stated H/A Carlton v Collingwood hold the record for a final and GF crowd.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

 

[Raz Man]

Last year it was 39,000! So these fixtures are usually sold out but 38-39 k attend!

 

[What else we can do]

Because it was a social event of everyone wanting to say that they were at his 300th rather than it being about the actual game.

I guess Rich got what they wanted which was a big crowd and plenty of cash. Got to feel for Yze, faking Dusty's illness last week has made the rest of the season probably a write off. When it was time for the players to dig in today, no doubt in the back of their minds they knew the club cared more about dollars and couldn't be bothered


Well done Tigers, the big 3 have taken note


It always comes down to a debate on whether you want more seats or more leg room. I know when they rebuilt the Northern Stand all the research they did said it was important for fans to have the capacity over 100k. I'd love to rip all the seats out of the ground level of the Ponsford and make it all standing room, with a rebuild of the Southern Stand that could get capacity up to 120k

The ground level of the Ponsford stand in the 1970 GF looked unsafe especially when Jezza kicked the winning goal and everyone was jumping up and down.

 

[ep12]

Out of curiosity were you there yesterday? I heard over the announcement all GA ticket holders can sit on all 3 levels.
and i thought how good is that whereby most of the stadium needed to book tickets (reserved seats).

Lets cut out the supposed crowd splits, that's normally a gopies thing. 14-15K neutrals yeah nah maybe if you said on a game like MND queens birthday or even Anzac day with significant meaning which lets be honest has more universal appeal than a teams player achieving 300 games. Many of us have spoken prior about neutrals 5-10K depending on the game but anyone suggesting 15-20K is just way off base.

You may well be right previous times our attendance in MCC is just ok but i dare say for yesterday I would disagree with your assertion, You know how dees supporters say it was all red in MCC. Yesterday for the first time I thought it was predominately of yellow and black. I don't think you quite understand the level of Richmond supporters snapping up tickets wherever they could, for dustys 300th, it was insane like getting finals tickets. I do feel for hawk supporters as many were locked out. I had hawks mates who couldnt even get tickets at start of week. Richmond supporters could get tickets right up to the day before and then that was it all gone.

Richmond Club members were also able to buy into the AFL reserve (top deck). AFL Richmond club support members also were able to buy into ponsford/city end Q36 due to the level of demand from Richmond members they just had to be there to celebrate one of greatest players if not our greatest. .

Not sure where I said 15-20K neutrals but thats fine. I would say around 5-10K is more than reasonable especially in the AFL Reserve.

You cannot possibly claim that the MCC was entirely Richmond based on the colours given both teams have yellow as the main colour that stands out.
"Disagree with your assertion," its not an assertion its just a fact that the MCC is empty for richmond games against non MCG tenants.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Not sure where I said 15-20K neutrals but thats fine. I would say around 5-10K is more than reasonable especially in the AFL Reserve.

You you did state 15% neutrals that equates to about 14K and 15-20K was a general comment that has been bandied around that games get 15K+ in neutrals which I and others don't agree with.

And I did state for this game it looked very much like a lot more tigers in MCC reserve.

 

[Hawkk]

Not sure where I said 15-20K neutrals but thats fine. I would say around 5-10K is more than reasonable especially in the AFL Reserve.

You cannot possibly claim that the MCC was entirely Richmond based on the colours given both teams have yellow as the main colour that stands out.
"Disagree with your assertion," its not an assertion its just a fact that the MCC is empty for richmond games against non MCG tenants.

Crowd split posts are such bullshit - especially laughable for games where the two teams share gold