Play Nice 2024 AFL and State League Attendance

[AstuteTiger]

They were only a tenant at the MCG for seven years (1992-1999) and only won one flag.

Collingwood has been playing the majority of their home games at the MCG since at least 1994 (not 2000), so they've been a major tenant for ages

Yes true but in 1999 they made the prelim and were favourites to win the flag until the blues upset the party.
In 2000 they won it and runner up 2001 even though they made the move to docklands.

Bombers were still playing 8-9 game at the G so the incentive was still there to get a MCC membership.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Pretty sure there would be a huge difference between each southern state club in their ability to fund football and club operations.

The least-attended Melbourne clubs still get enough revenue to be able to fund their existence in the AFL, without relying on additional distribution (if you take the view that variable AFL funding is to equate structural disadvantages, like access to blockbusters. Even then, the variable funding it not strictly necessary).

GWS currently do not. It's not an argument against their existence, it is a project by the AFL to make the team a loss leader, a organisations do in all walks of life, to have a future large team in an area with a big population as well as to meet strategic goals to grow the game. Many non GWS fans are fine with that, myself included. The GWS board and its members lack true independence from the AFL for this very reason.

But the revenue disparaties are real. The financial thread on this board prove that. It's strange that it's being taken issue with.

 

[Peacock]

Do we really think supporters are going to join a 25-year waiting list because their club had short term success?

Definitely. How many Richmond supporters do you think were signing up to join the wait list in 2009 vs 2019? Or Carlton 2018 (pick any year ) vs 2024?

More important is the number of games your team plays at the G, because it makes the membership far more valuable to you. The Bombers and Pies got all those increased games in the 90's and saw a huge surge. Despite their smaller supporter bases, even if the Saints or Dogs won five premierships in a row it will never translate to MCC members because they hardly play any games there.

No doubt if the Hawks went to the G instead of Waverley you would be higher up the list and probably ahead of Carlton. Rather than the sign up rate at the time being Ess,Coll then daylight to the third club, it would have been Ess,Coll,Haw then daylight to the fourth club for that period.

Working out what the future make up of the MCC is pretty easy given the lag factor, you can look back and judge the size of a clubs supporter base, number of games at the G, "consistant" on field success.

Who knows what the Bombers could have been if McMahon and Jackson didn't sell out their members and move to Marvel Stadium.

If they had the same crappy on field performance I doubt they would be much further ahead of where they are now, it's still the most important factor. You might want to look at Ron Evan's involvement too.

 

[The Educator]

The least-attended Melbourne clubs still get enough revenue to be able to fund their existence in the AFL, without relying on additional distribution (if you take the view that variable AFL funding is to equate structural disadvantages, like access to blockbusters. Even then, the variable funding it not strictly necessary).

This just plain is not true.

The small AFL clubs variable funding far exceeds whatever compensation they deserve for not having as many blockbusters etc. It is also very much strictly necessary to ensure the small four Melbourne clubs can fund the full football department cap.

 

[The Educator]

It’s pretty strange to think that the second biggest MCC club isn't even an MCG tenant.

It really isn't. MCC members today must have signed up in 2000 at the latest - i.e. the first season of Docklands stadium.

MCC membership waiting list

As one of the biggest sporting clubs in the world, the MCC also has one of the largest waiting lists for membership. Find out how to join the waiting list, and obtain a nomination form.

mcc.org.au

Going off the current wait times, in 2018 even provisional members would have only had a look in if they applied around 2000.

Looking at that list, I doubt that St Kilda, North and the Dogs are going to get much of a look in for MCG games - with North and the Dogs close to the Lions and Swans for MCC support.

If the Dees ever dipped below Essendon or Collingwood they would lose a lot of their clout as an MCG tenant too. Especially with the Dees being the smallest club in the AFL members.

Which won't be for many decades at best

 

[Walshawk]

The least-attended Melbourne clubs still get enough revenue to be able to fund their existence in the AFL, without relying on additional distribution (if you take the view that variable AFL funding is to equate structural disadvantages, like access to blockbusters. Even then, the variable funding it not strictly necessary).

GWS currently do not. It's not an argument against their existence, it is a project by the AFL to make the team a loss leader, a organisations do in all walks of life, to have a future large team in an area with a big population as well as to meet strategic goals to grow the game. Many non GWS fans are fine with that, myself included. The GWS board and its members lack true independence from the AFL for this very reason.

But the revenue disparaties are real. The financial thread on this board prove that. It's strange that it's being taken issue with.

A loss leader is a popular product sold at a loss to attract customers in the hope/assumption they will also buy other products. This is not GWS. It might be the Swans or Lions.

To those happy with how GWS are travelling, my question is - How many more years to we continue with the same strategy if there is still not growth in crowds or ratings? Don’t give me participation because I that is mainly due to the Swans. Another five years? 10? 20?

Any other business would change a strategy that has produced no growth.

 

[The Educator]

Collingwood has been playing the majority of their home games at the MCG since at least 1994 (not 2000), so they've been a major tenant for ages.

In 2018, there would have been a small number of restricted members who would have signed on by 1994. At that stage Essendon had played in 5 of the previous 11 Grand Finals winning 3 of them

 

[The Educator]

A loss leader is a popular product sold at a loss to attract customers in the hope/assumption they will also buy other products. This is not GWS. It might be the Swans or Lions.

To those happy with how GWS are travelling, my question is - How many more years to we continue with the same strategy if there is still not growth in crowds or ratings? Don’t give me participation because I that is mainly due to the Swans. Another five years? 10? 20?

Any other business would change a strategy that has produced no growth.

It's not a loss leader it's an investment

More generally, why should anyone engage with you when you are clearly just going to "beg the question"?

FWIW, the Giants can keep growing at the current slow pace of growth for the next 20 years and it is all worthwhile

The actual marginal cost is small relative to the money in the game.

 

[dave10]

Ticket sales look like a high 60,000’s / low 70,000 crowd for Carlton v Geelong.

Unless they've already sold out the Ponsford Stand and half the Southern Stand there is plenty of upper level seats available for Friday (far more than the game earlier this year)

There is a good chance that Geelong could slide - based on current form - before the Essendon and Collingwood games regardless which could drop it further

I agree. If Cats lose this weekend, they won’t come up the highest. Cats / Bombers needed to be afternoon game to draw well.

 

[Sammoll]

I'm surprised the Sydney derby hasn't already sold out, but it looks like it definitely will in the next few days. 20k+ will be a nice bump to GWS' season average.

 

[Underarm]

I'm surprised the Sydney derby hasn't already sold out, but it looks like it definitely will in the next few days. 20k+ will be a nice bump to GWS' season average.

The only fans who hate travelling across town more than Richmond fans are Sydney fans.

 

[Fletched]

A loss leader is a popular product sold at a loss to attract customers in the hope/assumption they will also buy other products. This is not GWS. It might be the Swans or Lions.

To those happy with how GWS are travelling, my question is - How many more years to we continue with the same strategy if there is still not growth in crowds or ratings? Don’t give me participation because I that is mainly due to the Swans. Another five years? 10? 20?

Any other business would change a strategy that has produced no growth.

The swans faced like 14 years of decline when they joined the competition, there would have been people in 1994 declaring it to have failed

 

[Bjo187]

The swans faced like 14 years of decline when they joined the competition, there would have been people in 1994 declaring it to have failed

Funnily enough, I remember as a kid saying they should be kicked outta the competition.

 

[Cmarsh]

The swans faced like 14 years of decline when they joined the competition, there would have been people in 1994 declaring it to have failed

I think people forget just how much the RL superleague war just after that time gave them a leg up, in a big way.

 

[Walshawk]

The only fans who hate travelling across town more than Richmond fans are Sydney fans.

Why do you think that they used to get 30k - 70k travelling to ACCOR for Pies/Bombers/Hawks/Blues games pre-GWS yet can’t get half that now?

 

[Cmarsh]

Why do you think that they used to get 30k - 70k travelling to ACCOR for Pies/Bombers/Hawks/Blues games pre-GWS yet can’t get half that now?

Big novelty factor to begin with, then it fell away.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The swans faced like 14 years of decline when they joined the competition, there would have been people in 1994 declaring it to have failed

Swans had their ups and downs (pretty bad downs) but they had some years during the Capper years that proved there was an appetite and sustainability to their product if it was entertaining and winning. It might have been a few years earlier but it had existed, unlike what GWS has ever shown.

Not to say it won't happen in the future for the Giants, but it's a bit of a false equivalent.

 

[Raz Man]

How is Carlton v Geelong shaping up at the 'G tomorrow night?!

 

[Teagueeee15]

Swans had their ups and downs (pretty bad downs) but they had some years during the Capper years that proved there was an appetite and sustainability to their product if it was entertaining and winning. It might have been a few years earlier but it had existed, unlike what GWS has ever shown.

Not to say it won't happen in the future for the Giants, but it's a bit of a false equivalent.

Yeah - over 1986-87 they were along with Carlton and Hawthorn as the leagues best 3 teams. They were getting some crowds in the high 30k’s during that stretch, in particular the 3 consecutive weeks scoring 200+. Only 4 crowds under 20k during those years, at a time when the league average was sub 20k.

Unfortunately they had to play home finals in Melbourne and they lost them all.

 

[manicmagpie]

How is Carlton v Geelong shaping up at the 'G tomorrow night?!

They're selling the back of Q7-11 in the Warne Stand and Q49-55 in the Northern Stand. Not sure if the back of the Ponsford is sold out or hasn't been put on sale.

The AFL Members has sold the front and middle sections of the top deck.

Looks like 70k+ but not sure about 80k at the moment.

 

[dave10]

They're selling the back of Q7-11 in the Warne Stand and Q49-55 in the Northern Stand. Not sure if the back of the Ponsford is sold out or hasn't been put on sale.

The AFL Members has sold the front and middle sections of the top deck.

Looks like 70k+ but not sure about 80k at the moment.

The Cats are one more loss away from seeing their crowds fall through the floor I’d say… They’ve already come off a bit as evidenced by sales for this game.

 

[Peacock]

I was expecting Ponsford to go on sale late Thursday / early Friday, but they jacked the cheapest seats up to $58 instead, they are at $52 now though. Pies always seem to have the cheap seats at $40, maybe just copy that model? Unless it sells out they can't measure how many sales they lost by having the higher price anyway. It's also been freezing cold lately and possibly a few showers around so it wouldn't hurt them to look at a winter pricing model lol.

Dave Geelong have already fallen away, I don't think anyone sees them as contenders anymore. However if they win Friday night they are contenders again and no excuse for the Cats/Bombers not to get 95k!

 

[dave10]

I was expecting Ponsford to go on sale late Thursday / early Friday, but they jacked the cheapest seats up to $58 instead, they are at $52 now though. Pies always seem to have the cheap seats at $40, maybe just copy that model? Unless it sells out they can't measure how many sales they lost by having the higher price anyway. It's also been freezing cold lately and possibly a few showers around so it wouldn't hurt them to look at a winter pricing model lol.

Dave Geelong have already fallen away, I don't think anyone sees them as contenders anymore. However if they win Friday night they are contenders again and no excuse for the Cats/Bombers not to get 95k!

I agree the Cats have come off, and I note your ‘!’… But being a Saturday night in Winter, even if they win the Cats fans in no small amount will stay home.

 

[magic_johnson!]

I was expecting Ponsford to go on sale late Thursday / early Friday, but they jacked the cheapest seats up to $58 instead, they are at $52 now though. Pies always seem to have the cheap seats at $40, maybe just copy that model? Unless it sells out they can't measure how many sales they lost by having the higher price anyway. It's also been freezing cold lately and possibly a few showers around so it wouldn't hurt them to look at a winter pricing model lol.

Dave Geelong have already fallen away, I don't think anyone sees them as contenders anymore. However if they win Friday night they are contenders again and no excuse for the Cats/Bombers not to get 95k!

They seem to have just opened Q26-Q28 (afl members bays) to the public?

 

[JohnZ]

The only fans who hate travelling across town more than Richmond fans are Sydney fans.

Except Docklands is still in the city and two extra stops on the train (from both richmond and jolimont), at least olympic park/sydney showgrounds is a solid 30min on the train out west.