thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #626
that was ash, and it was mount saint helens, and you were lost...........good story..............
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AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Prediction 2024 - Best 23 + Emergencies - Rolling
- Thread starter Arr0w
- Start date
- Tagged users None
JuddgementDay
Brownlow Medallist
I thought nothing has changed here
I.e. best 22+ sub
The difference is in how they report the team list each week
Correct.
Yep. Terrible for fantasy players but nil impact on the actual game.
Pretty sure it's best 23 including the sub. Name 23 + 3 emergencies on teams night, then an hour before the game one of the 23 is nominated as the sub.
"Naming of the Sub
The sub will continue in 2024, and in an amendment to the announcement of teams, Clubs will now name an extended interchange bench of five players and three emergency players.
The sub will be confirmed 60 minutes prior to the match."
Amendments to AFL Rules
The League has confirmed several rule amendments ahead of the 2024 season
www.afl.com.au
Extended bench, just like with a Sunday game, implies that the bench includes emergencies not included in the 22. The only difference for this year is that a player won't get dropped to become the sub, and consequently we won't actually know who from the named 22+1 is starting the game wearing the vest (which will make Supercoach/etc a little trickier).
Yup you're correct.Pretty sure it's best 23 including the sub. Name 23 + 3 emergencies on teams night, then an hour before the game one of the 23 is nominated as the sub.
"Naming of the Sub
The sub will continue in 2024, and in an amendment to the announcement of teams, Clubs will now name an extended interchange bench of five players and three emergency players.
The sub will be confirmed 60 minutes prior to the match."
Amendments to AFL Rules
The League has confirmed several rule amendments ahead of the 2024 season
Extended bench, just like with a Sunday game, implies that the bench includes emergencies not included in the 22. The only difference for this year is that a player won't get dropped to become the sub, and consequently we won't actually know who from the named 22+1 is starting the game wearing the vest (which will make Supercoach/etc a little trickier).
Interesting comments from Vossy via Twomey's article that Ollie has been spending more minutes as an inside mid during pre-season. I'll give that kid credit, he is bloody tough! Also H to be used more in the ruck at times, which will be good to get him into the game and isolate Charlie.
- Thread starter
- #633
This is what I witnessed in a few sessions, but moreso coming into congestion to gather the pill, similar to what we saw from Acres last year
I think Ollie will still play wing almost exclusively for another couple of years(ie like McCluggage) before he transitions more into the midfield. His running and footy nous make him an ideal wing in his early years.
But his mid capabilities and toughness(tough mind which makes him play bravely) wouldn't surprise anyone who saw the skinny runt take on the big gun mids in the U18 Champs GF against Metro, and the other big game that year against WA. He was better than all except probably Ashcroft.
I was in the "draft Ollie camp" from the day i saw that Country v Metro game. He is tough mentally and rises to the level of games. In the Selwood mould. No, i'm not saying he's Joel Selwood, but he has a fair bit of that singleminded mental toughness. He thrives in big games. And all AFL games are big games.
He will be a great wing imo while he builds, and while we have incumbent mids all striving for places.
And in a few years, he will be a great mid.
This was my thinking in November. I'm still happy with this thinking/set up at the start of Feb as we get closer.
Of the players not in this team, my observations of the last 3 months would be:
Boyd - Could very easily be in the side, and some would say at the expence of Cowan. But in my mind, he is more competing with Saady and Williams as the second small. I would have zero complaints seeing Boyd run through the banner, but at full strength, he still just misses for me.
Wilson - The kid looks like he is one of those who is coming on earlier than expectations. The magical result of that 30 plus pick who accelerates from the moment he walks into the club. Most likely to find it very hard to break in, but gee the buzz is exciting that he looks like a great find.
Kennedy - I like Kennedy. I think Vossy really likes Kennedy. It wouldn't surprise to see him a regular full strength fixture, but it takes an equally tough decision to have him in, as it does to leave him out. Great to see/hear him in best career nick. Having a marking mid is a valuable piece.
Silvagni - Don't want to poop poop a player with obviously next level connection to Carlton, but it is not hindsighting for me to say i don't think moving past him is such a bad thing. He is a bit good at a lot of things, but i genuinely have felt for a while that we can have a better structure, for us, with others in the mix. We will miss his depth though obviously.
Fogarty - training really well, but i cant get him near the 25, let alone the 22, at full strength.
Orazio - Not for mine.
Cunners - Not for mine.
Of my "marginal" players IN my 23 who are "keeping out" others:
Pittonet - He is not marginal in my view. He is in when fit.
Cottrell - His running power is important imo. His, Walsh, Ollie and Acres eunning power sets a few others up to just concentrate on THEIR strengths. Cotts' football has also improved outta sight.
C.Durdin - I like the partnership of him and Mots. I think they work well as a tandem amongst a six. Like Pitto and TDK, i think Durds and Mots work best together. I think they are the now, and the future.
Cowan - With more power medium tall forwards coming into the game, i think we need two mid defenders and i think Cowan is a bloody ripper. He was good in his stint early last year and seems to have really accelerated this pre-season. He brings a lot to a defence. I reckon Sammy Hamill and Vossy would love him.
Just some thoughts on a quiet Thursday.
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McKay rucking and Hollands playing more on the ball most likely means they can move when we have injuries.
We lack speed and two way run in the middle. Hollands has that in spades so having him added to the onball group makes sense. Have a look at it in the summer, if he takes to it make it permanent. If he's not quite there then he is an option to go into the onball group if we have an injury to one of our faster two way running mids (Cerra, Walsh and Docherty).
McKay is the same. Best 22 out there he probably doesn't ruck unless the ball is inside F50. An injury to DeKoning, McKay becomes the 2nd ruck in the side. An injury to Pittonet and DeKoning becomes 1st ruck and McKay moves to second ruck. I think they are looking it this way.
These are the two biggest depth holes in our side. Not only are they the two biggest holes but Cerra, Walsh, Pittonet and DeKoning have had a fair share of injury layoffs the last few seasons so we should be expecting they will miss games. Unless youngsters really step up such as Lemmy and O'Keeffe for the ruck or Wilson or Carroll for the running onballer role we will need to find someone and change their role to fill it.
There is also a fair argument that we may be better with DeKoning first ruck, McKay second ruck and Hollands as a full time member of the onball group if they can step up in these roles.
I was super critical of our player development last year that too many players had not developed a second position/role. It seems one of the focuses this preseason is that players are developing in multiple positions which is good. It's one of the many ways you can manage players loads on match days and cover for injuries.
We lack speed and two way run in the middle. Hollands has that in spades so having him added to the onball group makes sense. Have a look at it in the summer, if he takes to it make it permanent. If he's not quite there then he is an option to go into the onball group if we have an injury to one of our faster two way running mids (Cerra, Walsh and Docherty).
McKay is the same. Best 22 out there he probably doesn't ruck unless the ball is inside F50. An injury to DeKoning, McKay becomes the 2nd ruck in the side. An injury to Pittonet and DeKoning becomes 1st ruck and McKay moves to second ruck. I think they are looking it this way.
These are the two biggest depth holes in our side. Not only are they the two biggest holes but Cerra, Walsh, Pittonet and DeKoning have had a fair share of injury layoffs the last few seasons so we should be expecting they will miss games. Unless youngsters really step up such as Lemmy and O'Keeffe for the ruck or Wilson or Carroll for the running onballer role we will need to find someone and change their role to fill it.
There is also a fair argument that we may be better with DeKoning first ruck, McKay second ruck and Hollands as a full time member of the onball group if they can step up in these roles.
I was super critical of our player development last year that too many players had not developed a second position/role. It seems one of the focuses this preseason is that players are developing in multiple positions which is good. It's one of the many ways you can manage players loads on match days and cover for injuries.
BlueNath
Debutant
- Feb 28, 2023
- 50
- 188
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Im not sure I agree. Walsh is a professional and he basically had his pre-season wiped out with his back issue. Im sure that was a big reason for his late season hammy strain. With a full pre-season, I dont see him missing any games via injury. Cerra I cannot be 100% on, but his hammy issues were low grade. I really dont expect him to miss games either, especially with another full preseason. TDK... looks in amazing condition! The issue is ruck is a brutal role and can take a toll on players. But I really see (and hope) him playing every game too barring innocuous impact-type injuries rather than muscle/stress injuries. Pitto I cannot be confident with. But he does play first ruck and goes up against the "big boys" initially and wears them down ready for TDK to go crazy. So his body cops a lot! He does a lot of self-sacrafice for the team, which he does not get a lot of credit for... we tend to want to focus on what he doesnt do.
Ultimately, I think we look primed this year and Walsh, Cerra and TDK will be big factors. Lets hope Im right about them being out there every week!
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I hope you're right, a good run with injuries in these two areas is crucial to our success. I think a part of Walsh and Cerra going down was a lot to do with us flogging them pretty hard as well. Reckon their onball minutes would be pretty huge. Reason for that being that we didn't have a great deal in midfield rotations and lacked depth with our quicker onballers. Cerra is capable of going forward and we never get to see it and Walsh often rested at half forward prior to 2023 and we didn't really see that either.
A big part of making finals last season was when Cerra and Walsh went down. Docherty and Dow were there and in form and were able to step into the side and keep the ball rolling and we kept winning. Injuries are a part of football and we will need the same thing to happen again.
We have put our faith in youth. Dow has gone and now we will be hoping youngsters are there to step up when needed. Carroll, Wilson, E&O Hollands, maybe Binns? Same with the ruck issue. I have no doubt we will be forced into playing Lemmy and O'Keeffe/Mirkov at times during the season. Which is fine, providing it's not in finals and it's not for a huge stretch.
We are dangerously thin when it comes to fast two way running onballers and mature rucks, particularly ones who can go forward. Unless the young raw players step up and I am hoping they will.
I think O'Keeffe may be just good enough to ruck for a few games but a good AFL ruck will probably take him apart. I still struggle to see Mirkov making it. Lemmy I think has talent and the talk is that he has improved a lot but he was extremely raw last season. If he can pinch hit for a few games then great but I'm not sure he will impact a great deal. Docherty will IMO be a part of the midfield group. Hollands is probably a forward/mid and fits the big bodied mid role more than the faster mid role but he will two way run. E Hollands maybe. Binns will be developing. Carroll I had big hopes for but last season he was just miles away. I'm hoping this season he can step up, has talent. Not having someone the standard of Dow in the VFL will be a luxury we lose I feel but hoping we have gained more. Wilson I am a huge fan of but I feel he will be developed in the backline in the VFL and we are going to take it slow before releasing him in the middle. Huge ask to ask a first year player to play on the ball at AFL level although I get a feeling he's not your average first year player.
Depth in other areas is pretty good. We'd got amazing backup to all kinds of defenders. Decent depth on the wings. Plenty of big bodied midfielders. Small and medium forward depth is pretty good and tall forward depth is fine, we know we don't need both McKay and Curnow to win games we can cover one with medium/small forwards, DeKoning and in time hopefully Lemmy. I can see us winning games with any of our defenders out and any of our forwards out and even missing a winger or two and one or two big bodied onballers but it's the rucks, particularly the second ruck and the faster better running onballers is where we are thin and no doubt we will have to cover at times during the season.
As long as we finish top 4 and arrive in finals in good shape. But I think the up and coming youth will have a huge part to play this year. When they play their 2-5 games, if they perform their role well enough for us to still win, that's all we can ask for.
4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
Really hope we get to see a fair bit of Martin and Mots (even Durds) rolling through the guts in spurts this year.
All have that pizzazz that we lack a bit in the middle.... maybe what we got Williams for originally?
And I don't mean leg speed, more so slippery(iness) (is that a word?)
All have that pizzazz that we lack a bit in the middle.... maybe what we got Williams for originally?
And I don't mean leg speed, more so slippery(iness) (is that a word?)
When Martin first arrived he would go into the middle and he was brilliant. Real hard hitting high quality stuff. Not sure he is not too injury prone for it anymore though. If he had a solid body he would be one of the game's best players IMO. Will be a guy who is good but we never got to see the best of.
Motlop in the middle excites me. IMO if his endurance running was better and we hadn't pigeonholed him as a forward, he would make a very very good onballer. Reads the game so well in the middle. All the skills and a strong body and agility. Has it all but the elite fitness AFL onballers need.
I'd like to see Cripps and Cerra play a little more forward. High rotations usually means you finish games strongly. Early last season we didn't have any rotations at all. Started to rotate some in the second half of the season with Fogarty and Cuningham and it made a huge difference even though those two didn't have much impact in the middle. If our rotations do have a big impact in the middle we are going to improve a lot. I can see both Hollands brothers, Motlop, Fantasia, Cuningham, Fogarty all possible going on the ball at times. Docherty being a part of that group but having a second position. Maybe Williams for moments? I'd love to see Durdin in there more.
4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
I'd like to see BamBam given a crack at the 3rd,4th tall gig (even as a cameo to his mid role).
He's exceptional overhead, a very good set shot and likes to crunch the opposition if given half a chance.
At 188cm, 91kg.....
Our JDG?
He's exceptional overhead, a very good set shot and likes to crunch the opposition if given half a chance.
At 188cm, 91kg.....
Our JDG?
- Thread starter
- #642
I'd like to see Kennedy spending more time forward too, never seen him look better, and has had his best preseason
JDG? No don't think so. Closest attributes to JDG on our list would be Elijah without the burst
On MV’s arrival, pretty sure MK asked Vossy about playing some time up forward = no, you’re an inside midfielder.
In saying that, MK was (wrongfully) positioned as a HBF in a time of need last season.
Forward positioning would be better suited and hopefully there’s some thinking for him to expand his role as a forward. Maybe switching with EH through the midfield/forward rotation.
- Thread starter
- #644
I think Voss was still experimenting early last year, moreso with the injuries we had in the backline before the start of the season (Boyd, Williams, Marchbank, S Durdin, Cincotta added midseason), especially late with Williams
So while not ideal, I understand why the likes of Kennedy, Cerra, erc spent some time in the back 6
Think we have much better coverage along all lines and hopefully the additions of Fantasia and Hollands continues to improve our cohesion
BlueNath
Debutant
- Feb 28, 2023
- 50
- 188
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Totally agree with most of what you said. We have one of the deepest lists in the AFL now, but it is almost impossible to have ready-to-go backups for every position. So we may have to expose a kid or two before they are ready, but I think we have enough experience to cover having a few kids fill in here and there.
While I get your point on putting faith in youth, I think we only play them out of necessity (injuries) or if they are performing better than a player in our best 22. We are not a developing team anymore. We are primed to go deep. So we should be playing the best team each week. Recent history is showing us, as David King always says, that "heath is your best asset"... sides that can keep the core of their best 22 our there each week typically occupy the top sections of the ladder. While this requires a bit of fortune with injuries, it also highlights that team continuity and cohesion is more potent than the overall talent of the list. So having more flexibility within the group, like some examples you highlight, is a better option to take workload off/manage some players within games by playing less taxing roles for longer periods etc.
When you say "we are dangerously thin when it comes to fast two way running onballers", I assume you mean Cripps and Hewett? The rest, IMO are elite two-way runners... Cerra, Walsh, Acres, Hollands, Cotters. I guess the key is rotations... keeping Crippa and Hewett fresh by finding other positions to fill. Having Doc playing mid, along with E Hollands, Motts, Williams, Fogs etc. to go through the middle for stints is, IMO, one of the most lethal squads for brutality and endurance in the AFL. Sure, adding a JDG type would be amazing, but we have more than enough assets to not be intimidated by any side we come up against. Or did you just mean we are slow? We have a stigma for being slow, but I just dont see it myself. I think speed of ball movement makes you look fast or slow. And watching some of the training, we look to be chaining quickly (and forward) out of stoppages.. it makes us look really fast!
Just out of curiouslty... tell me your thoughts on Hewett. I see him in nearly everyones best 22. But he is seen as slow. He also does not seem to have a 2nd posi either. Would you consider dropping him to inject another faster/dynamic player? Or is Hewetts role (primarily lock-down/negating) as too important to our "brand"?
- Mar 25, 2019
- 11,370
- 22,742
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Saad Weitering Marchbank
Newman McGovern Williams
Acres Cripps O.Hollands
Fogarty McKay Durdin
Martin Curnow Fantasia
TDK Walsh Kennedy
Pittonet E.Hollands Cerra Docherty
Boyd/Kemp/Young
Newman McGovern Williams
Acres Cripps O.Hollands
Fogarty McKay Durdin
Martin Curnow Fantasia
TDK Walsh Kennedy
Pittonet E.Hollands Cerra Docherty
Boyd/Kemp/Young
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He’s flying and possibly our best mid in the pre season. Although Walsh & Cerra have been great as well. Hewett under the radar but fit.
Cripps has been doing a lot of forward work so I expect to see him up forward at times
If we go with one ruck and McKay being back up I can see Cripps & Kennedy having forward spells. We can go small if needed
Personally I don’t think we are fixed on anything. I believe our versatility is now our strength
We have talls and smalls that can play mid and forward. Docherty & E. Hollands can play forward and mid. Our small forwards can go into the middle. Even Charlie can move up the ground when needed
It will make us bloody hard to match up on and we won’t be reliant on a few players to get us through
That’s what really excites me
Round Zero side based on Match Sim
B: Boyd Young McGovern
HB: Newman Marchbank Saad
C: Acres Cripps Hollands
HF: Docherty McKay Fogarty
F: Martin Curnow Motlop
Foll: TDK Kennedy Walsh
Int: Pittonet Cerra Williams Fantasia
(Hewett)
Crazy I can’t fit Cottrell Cincotta Cuningham Cowan Durdin Kemp into side and Weitering & Hollands still to come in
B: Boyd Young McGovern
HB: Newman Marchbank Saad
C: Acres Cripps Hollands
HF: Docherty McKay Fogarty
F: Martin Curnow Motlop
Foll: TDK Kennedy Walsh
Int: Pittonet Cerra Williams Fantasia
(Hewett)
Crazy I can’t fit Cottrell Cincotta Cuningham Cowan Durdin Kemp into side and Weitering & Hollands still to come in
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- Mar 25, 2019
- 11,370
- 22,742
- AFL Club
- Carlton
I remember a few years ago the board was debating who should come in, Kerridge or Polson... Bloody hell the list has come a long way.
Yep, got the same 22 - although I'd possibly have Motlop for Fog, with Fantasia playing the high half forward role. Has a huge tank.
Having said all that, I'd also be fine with Fog in the 22 - he was so important with our resurgence last year and deserves a spot.
