Team Mgmt. 2024 Forward Line

[Ants]

Baker actually is available.

Happy to grab him but would prefer Bolton. And thought he’d be heading west (if anywhere).

 

[eth-dog]

So bringing this back. Forward/defensive efficiencies. We're 6th in accuracy, 10th in terms of goals per inside 50, 11th in terms of scores/inside 50. A little below average for both.

So this is clearly the area we've struggled in the most this year so far. 13th for goals/inside 50 and 16th for scores/inside 50. Our accuracy is good, but that's to be expected when Langford and Wright are our two main forwards, who are 65.8% and 66.2% goal accuracy players over their careers (for context, JJK is 64.8%). We need to start converting more chances.

I think a top level small forward is what we need.

 

[jdstorm]

Personally I think the biggest need is the FF equivalent of bringing in Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

to replace BZT.

It was Hooker in 2021 aka the last time this forward line functioned well.

Now it’s Draper when they go with 2 rucks. Without it Wright is more of the drop zone forward (which he struggles with) and Taller defenders go to Langford/Stringer which they struggle with.

It’s easy enough to find passable SF play. Probably ends up being Gresh, Guelf and Parish this year if at full health.

 

[Ants]

Personally I think the biggest need is the FF equivalent of bringing in Ben McKay to replace BZT.

It was Hooker in 2021 aka the last time this forward line functioned well.

Now it’s Draper when they go with 2 rucks. Without it Wright is more of the drop zone forward (which he struggles with) and Taller defenders go to Langford/Stringer which they struggle with.

It’s easy enough to find passable SF play. Probably ends up being Gresh, Guelf and Parish this year if at full health.

It’s why Hunter is a slim chance not to be delisted.

 

[Yoda_]

why cant we luck out and have a failed defender turn into a dominant key forward

 

[Yoda_]

Forward line a mess and arguably the biggest area of concern right now.

Outside Stringer catching fire, the other 5 spots are role players. We need at least 2 to become dominant

(edit. I am aware of Langford, but he is not doing much the last few weeks so lumped him in with this group for discussion)

 

[jannissary]

they’re paid the big bucks to kick goals, and yet, we’ve been shit for the past fortnight +.

wright can’t mark, his leading lines are bad. jake can’t kick a goal from directly infront, kyle is having a weideman esque form slump, our interchangeable small forward brigade has little impact.

a lot of this stems from terrible f50 entries, but it’s shocking how bad we’ve been, and will likely continue to be

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Forward line a mess and arguably the biggest area of concern right now.

Outside Stringer catching fire, the other 5 spots are role players. We need at least 2 to become dominant

(edit. I am aware of Langford, but he is not doing much the last few weeks so lumped him in with this group for discussion)

Pre tonight I was meh on Ainsworth but seriously, anyone who can kick a goal and apply some pressure, get them in.

Would still obviously prefer Stengle but if not...

 

[Vander18]

Cannot for the life of me work out why we saw slow, high entries all night with neither Jones or Wright in the contest.

In that scenario - slow, high ball to to top of square - if they aren’t in that that contest then where the hell are they????

 

[ant555]

Cannot for the life of me work out why we saw slow, high entries all night with neither Jones or Wright in the contest.

In that scenario - slow, high ball to to top of square - if they aren’t in that that contest then where the hell are they????

To the Blues credit they set up really well and forced us into doing it a lot but yes it was very confusing to work out what they where thinking at times.

 

[CBombers17]

We lack marking power and don't crush marking contests enough which means we are hard to crumb too as well. Add to that a lack of quality small forwards means very few easy goals (Carlton showed us how that is don't tonight - simple goals by smalls all night). Gresham has been serviceable but we need some more quality asap.

 

[Yoda_]

Cannot for the life of me work out why we saw slow, high entries all night with neither Jones or Wright in the contest.

In that scenario - slow, high ball to to top of square - if they aren’t in that that contest then where the hell are they????

this is the big thing for me with our small forwards..

None are hugely effective crumb's and none (bar a 50:50 Guelfi) are big marking small forwards.

What the bloody hell are they doing

 

[ghostdog]

Forward line has gone from looking effective to looking dysfunctional in the space of a few weeks.

A key forward who actually gets physical. Happy to persist with 2MP and pursue JUH in a couple of years. JUH-Caddy-Jones would be decent.

 

[andleanback]

I don’t know what it is considering he doesn’t do a lot when he plays… but the forward line always looks a hell of a lot better when Davey is out there

 

[ghostdog]

this is the big thing for me with our small forwards..

None are hugely effective crumb's and none (bar a 50:50 Guelfi) are big marking small forwards.

What the bloody hell are they doing

...and both Gresh and ADJ are high half forwards. Menzie too now evidently. We obviously want more swarming numbers up the ground but it's pointless if the mediums / talls aren't getting separation or taking marks, and the smalls that are in the forward 50 aren't crumbing. Draper available tonight could have made a big difference.

 

[jdstorm]

Forward line a mess and arguably the biggest area of concern right now.

Outside Stringer catching fire, the other 5 spots are role players. We need at least 2 to become dominant

(edit. I am aware of Langford, but he is not doing much the last few weeks so lumped him in with this group for discussion)

Draper is the guy that makes it work really. Without him (or equivalent tall) Langford/Jones/Jake and the smalls just get blanketed by a defender bigger then they can handle.

FF Draper
CHF Jones/Caddy
3rd Langford
Perkins
Jake
gresh
Guelf

That’s a solid Forward line.

Then 2x Rucks. Wright+ Goldy

 

[Vindicater]

Gresham Jones Langford
Davey Jr Draper Guelfi

 

[ant555]

Draper is the guy that makes it work really. Without him (or equivalent tall) Langford/Jones/Jake and the smalls just get blanketed by a defender bigger then they can handle.

FF Draper
CHF Jones/Caddy
3rd Langford
Perkins
Jake
gresh
Guelf

That’s a solid Forward line.

Then 2x Rucks. Wright+ Goldy

People keep saying Draper is the bloke who will make it work but I think the memory may be affected by the fact that when he does get it right it does look good. The issue for me is he does not get it right all that often either and in a number of games this year he was caught out the back and not in the contest. 2 marks inside 50 in 6 games and did not make a contest more than 50% of the time in others.
As for a solid forward line. It is still very slow.
Draper may take some pressure off Langford as far as commanding a deep defender but so far he has not proven that he is the guy that can make it work .

 

[Yoda_]

Draper is the guy that makes it work really. Without him (or equivalent tall) Langford/Jones/Jake and the smalls just get blanketed by a defender bigger then they can handle.

FF Draper
CHF Jones/Caddy
3rd Langford
Perkins
Jake
gresh
Guelf

That’s a solid Forward line.

Then 2x Rucks. Wright+ Goldy

All well and good but still lacking a marking small forward. A Weightman, a Charlie Cameron, a Jamie Elliott type.

 

[nipst@r]

We lack bit of x factor fwd. Stringer has it, but no smalls have it.

Almost everyone has a livewire small.

Not sure we have a small capable of kicking 3 in a quarter or 4 or 5 for a game.

Guelfi is more a defensive/pressure fwd. Not sure see him crumbing or taking speccies often.

Strangely, it is also why draper fwd works sometimes as has a bit of the unpredictable x factor.

Stengle, Cameron, hill, papley, Higgins, Bolton.

And why I don't mind the hawks selection of Watson. Was a stretch but identified a upcoming gap and got players to fix it in ginnivan and Watson.

 

[nipst@r]

We also lack a presence Key fwd but if playingbtwo rucks draper/caddy should fill that void.

Guess what we are hoping with daveys but haven't seen it yet.

Whilst not that small saad el hawi definitely had some excitement and x factor on the vfl so get him in.

 

[faible]

We seem to have the same issue forward as we do in defence.

When Wright is there we just bomb it high and long for <reasons>. When he’s not we suddenly have to think.

When Ridley is there we let off the defensive running because Ridley is a star and will mop it up. When he’s not there we have to think.

 

[jdstorm]

All well and good but still lacking a marking small forward. A Weightman, a Charlie Cameron, a Jamie Elliott type.

That would be great no question. If you were looking to upgrade the list going from Guelfi to a top line marking SF would be huge.

Draper at FF unlocks Langford as a leading Target and Jones as your high flying marking 2nd/3rd forward.

But as for this year that’s not possible to get so you just have to make the most of it.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

People keep saying Draper is the bloke who will make it work but I think the memory may be affected by the fact that when he does get it right it does look good. The issue for me is he does not get it right all that often either and in a number of games this year he was caught out the back and not in the contest. 2 marks inside 50 in 6 games and did not make a contest more than 50% of the time in others.
As for a solid forward line. It is still very slow.
Draper may take some pressure off Langford as far as commanding a deep defender but so far he has not proven that he is the guy that can make it work .

Wright also has proven he is not the guy.
I think we are all on same page re forward line (and ruck) weakness, but that will only be fixed if caddy and the young smalls mature in a couple of years or if we recruit a ready made kpf / ruck and small in off season.
For the here and now I think JD and I are of the belief that at least when draper/goldy were splitting time between ruck/forward line there was a different flavour to the forward line with a more physical presence in draper. We also performed better in clearances during that time too.
It's not the answer long term but it was a better bandaid solution than our set up at the moment.

 

[ant555]

Wright also has proven he is not the guy.
I think we are all on same page re forward line (and ruck) weakness, but that will only be fixed if caddy and the young smalls mature in a couple of years or if we recruit a ready made kpf / ruck and small in off season.
For the here and now I think JD and I are of the belief that at least when draper/goldy were splitting time between ruck/forward line there was a different flavour to the forward line with a more physical presence in draper. We also performed better in clearances during that time too.
It's not the answer long term but it was a better bandaid solution than our set up at the moment.

I do not think it is much better which is why I disagree when people say it is the answer.
2MP has actually produced as the second ruck in a few games and despite him being poor last night and having some average games he has still been better than Draper as a forward.
I do not really care about short term fixes that may make us 2% better.