Team Mgmt. 2024 Forward Line

[Darealrath]

Or also who is slow and makes slow decisions

True, just like tackling stats could just be showing who is second to the footy. All these stats need more context and breakdown.

 

[ant555]

My view on the forward line has not changed. My opinion is.
Caddy looks like he will give us something as even if he does not mark it he does some smart tap ons or gets involved.
Wright is signed long term so somehow we have to get something out of him as second ruck as well.
Langford obviously stays forward.
Think we should let Stringer go but I doubt we do.
Really need Alwyn and Jayden to develop body wise as we need at least one of them .
Guelfi does a lot right but is not quick . Him and Gresham may be fighting for a spot or one on the bench.
Jones may be able to slot back with Caddy in the side but his forward marking is the issue. Seems to be better up the ground and not having KPD pressure on him.
If we land Kako he is one who is close to physically ready so could play games in his first season.

 

[Rick Ross]

The old logo- SPEED KILLS.
Truthfully we are slow all around the ground. Kayo’s speed is needed but as a team we need to get quicker. Also reaction times are slow. Cox,Jones, Perkins etc should improve this with experience, this can give you half a metre advantage and make you seem quicker. Davey has pace but doesn’t like the contest and runs to or starts in bad spots. A lot of this goes back to coaching and preparation, development.

Agree.
My avatar (SpeedKills) has gone from iconic to ironic.
It’s a self fulfilled contradiction of reality.

 

[ghostdog]

This group got found out.

Stringer remains uncontracted (I think). He's tradeable. Maybe a team like Port or Melbourne could use him. I'd have Jones take his place. He plays like a man possessed when inside the arc and can give us connection when he's allowed to roam higher up the ground. No more wing unless necessary. Had some nice moments there but he's a forward. Stoked we were able to get 21 games from him this year.

Menzie. Should be delisted or play VFL. Finds himself in the right spots but usually finds a way to miss or fumble. Colyer was better. At least he was fast but Menzie doesn't really even have that to fall back on. He's a plodder. Bring on Kako.

Gresham started well but seemed to fade into the very average player the Saints had had enough of. He played a high half role often, supporting the mids. Doesn't do that any better than Snello really. Can kick goals. I like his energy but he's a gap filler for now. If we take Joe Berry, Gresham will look better. ADJ needs to push him out.

Caddy is gold, but needs a solid FF to kick to if he's not kicking goals himself. Marking and turning to find a target looks natural to him and he's edge competitive.

Langford had another good season until he copped that hip pointer. I think he carried that all season afterwards. Last game against Brisbane was an improvement. Some have talked about trading Langers. I think that's premature. He's a keeper.

Guelfi. I think we know Guelf. Too inconsistent. Can play like a madman but we haven't seen desperation Guelf for a very long time. I'd see what we can get at the trade table or delist. We need to turn the list over and find players before Tassie comes in, and he's the type, in the bracket, that's holding us back. Soz Guelf.

Alwyn is lucky he has time on his side.

Looking forward, Kako, Caddy, Jones look locked in as forward pieces, perhaps Jones a little less convincingly given his age now. He'll need to have a good season in 2025. If we land Berry and Kako, our forwardline should be much more effective.

Edit: forgot Wright, whose performance has been forgetable really since being suspended after R1. That was probably as competitive as we've seen him. Lost his confidence marking but is really only a lead and mark player. Needs a block put on to get there because he can't stand under it. Kicked a few goals but he's a shade of what he was. Dare I say, he's Weideman level. And a below par ruckman to boot. He's either depth or tradeable IMO.

Draper. Much better over the last month. Forward craft has improved. He's taking marks now and starting to kick goals. Suddenly he looks like he has a high ceiling as a forward-ruck, which could allow Bryan to play number one ruck, so that's a bit exciting.

 

[jdstorm]

AFL
CHF Langford Caddy Guelfi
FF Merrett Draper Kako

VFL
Davey Cox Saad
Davey Viggo (draft 3rd tall late)

Trade
Stringer, Wright

 

[brutus76]

Stringer, Wright and Langford DOESN'T WORK

IMO with my coaches hat on

Stringer has been the consistent one - happy to stay on 1 year deals if we don't get a great trade offer

Caddy and Jones to be focal points

Draper goes so Bryan rucks 75% and 2MP needs to get super fit to ruck 25%

Langford - Richmond need a mid size marking forward to help Lynch out and seeing they're about to have a stack of picks happy to ask for a 1st here

 

[ghostdog]

Stringer, Wright and Langford DOESN'T WORK

IMO with my coaches hat on

Stringer has been the consistent one - happy to stay on 1 year deals if we don't get a great trade offer

Caddy and Jones to be focal points

Draper goes so Bryan rucks 75% and 2MP needs to get super fit to ruck 25%

Langford - Richmond need a mid size marking forward to help Lynch out and seeing they're about to have a stack of picks happy to ask for a 1st here

I find this interesting.
If Langford were traded, who takes his place? Perkins? Cox?
And who are you drafting with that pick?

I'm reluctant because we still need experience in the team. Langford at least offers some leadership and consistency when not carrying an injury. The game has passed Stringer I reckon.

Draper for pick 4 is also intriguing. So Bryan is number one with Caddy and Wright forward? Not sure that Bryan is sustainable yet for a full AFL season. Dante (or someone else) might still need to be recruited as a back up. I don't mind going backwards in the short term while positions get resorted, but we also won't be able to turn too much over.

 

[hurlygurdy]

Stringer, Wright and Langford DOESN'T WORK

IMO with my coaches hat on

Stringer has been the consistent one - happy to stay on 1 year deals if we don't get a great trade offer

Caddy and Jones to be focal points

Draper goes so Bryan rucks 75% and 2MP needs to get super fit to ruck 25%

Langford - Richmond need a mid size marking forward to help Lynch out and seeing they're about to have a stack of picks happy to ask for a 1st here

Is there a logical reason why the mix isn’t working though? Most of the time it seemed to be inaccuracy that was the problem, and when it wasn’t that it felt like more of an issue with Langford and wright both out of form. Then the small forward factor was a constant issue.
If you look meta it looks like a systemic forward line issue but if you break it down it looks like consecutive issues following one after another.
Anyway trading Langford is madness.

 

[Happyskeret]

I find this interesting.
If Langford were traded, who takes his place? Perkins? Cox?
And who are you drafting with that pick?

I'm reluctant because we still need experience in the team. Langford at least offers some leadership and consistency when not carrying an injury. The game has passed Stringer I reckon.

Draper for pick 4 is also intriguing. So Bryan is number one with Caddy and Wright forward? Not sure that Bryan is sustainable yet for a full AFL season. Dante (or someone else) might still need to be recruited as a back up. I don't mind going backwards in the short term while positions get resorted, but we also won't be able to turn too much over.

We are not getting pick 4 for Draper. Not going to happen.

 

[brutus76]

We are not getting pick 4 for Draper. Not going to happen.

Not for Draper and a future 3rd?

 

[FlyingV]

Well, we need speed at ground level in the forward 50 in order to pressure the ball carrier to enable our interceptors to cut off the exists from forward 50. The difference between Cameron, Bailey and Lohmann vs Gresham, Guelfi and… is stark.

The Daveys need a big preseason. Probably harsh on J.Davey, but someone needs to get into the twins heads that they need to come back in ripping shape this preseason. There is not a club in the AFL that needs their skill set more than us. But they are very much at risk given their output to date in my opinion. Opportunity is there.

 

[brutus76]

Delivery inside 50 has been terrible

Pressure inside 50 been horrendous

Structure looks complexing as i'm not sure THEY KNOW who is supposed to be going where (in terms of set up and leading patterns or ad-libbing on the run if there's a mis-match) hence the mids don't know when they get forward of centre. I'm confused and don't know who is supposed to be where and when and I played as a forward myself

Lions whilst horribly inaccurate set up beautifully (seen it in person a number of times). Joe and Hipwood one leading up the ground one deep. Lohmann and Cameron one leading up the ground one deep trying to get over the back and Rayner and whomever else in the space or leading up the ground to the wings or flanks or getting into the square to help at contest creating space behind for others to run into.

Stringer/Langford/Wright does not work so one or more elements need removal - ball gets out too easily and we get killed on rebound scores (mind you pressure in midfield not great either) so IMO Langford for a 1st and IMO Wright can work of his speed and conditioning in the off season to the the Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

22

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

65-70% forward and 30-35% ruck person or Wright goes for bugger all and we pay some of his $$$$ or both Langers and Wright go and we have Stringer leading the forward line and teaching the Caddyshack Kid and the Jones Boy how to play KPF

Same way Shiel/Merrett/Parish midfield does not work - hence I'm trading Shiel and Parish so Bull, Jye, Hobbsy, Tsatas, Duursma, Perks, Marto can continue to develop and run in there with Zach. I'm happy to trade DP3 for a 1st and even pay some of his salary to give our kids chances to learn and grow IN THOSE SPOTS

 

[The Donners]

Is there a logical reason why the mix isn’t working though? Most of the time it seemed to be inaccuracy that was the problem, and when it wasn’t that it felt like more of an issue with Langford and wright both out of form. Then the small forward factor was a constant issue.
If you look meta it looks like a systemic forward line issue but if you break it down it looks like consecutive issues following one after another.
Anyway trading Langford is madness.

Not the sole reasons but too tall and too slow making it too easy for opposition to run the ball out of their d50.

The make up should be 2 talls, 1 medium tall and 3 speedy smalls - with 2 of the smalls defence-minded.

FF: Wright
CHF: Caddy
Mid-tall: Langford
Smalls: Kako, Guelfi, Davey

Guelfi and Gresham/Perkins can rotate the high half forward role linking the midfield inside f50. We should try and upgrade Wright as soon as practical.

 

[andleanback]

We were aren’t changing our entire forward set up and way we structure up over the summer we might aswell not even turn up for season 2025

 

[jdstorm]

Delivery inside 50 has been terrible

Pressure inside 50 been horrendous

Structure looks complexing as i'm not sure THEY KNOW who is supposed to be going where (in terms of set up and leading patterns or ad-libbing on the run if there's a mis-match) hence the mids don't know when they get forward of centre. I'm confused and don't know who is supposed to be where and when and I played as a forward myself

Lions whilst horribly inaccurate set up beautifully (seen it in person a number of times). Joe and Hipwood one leading up the ground one deep. Lohmann and Cameron one leading up the ground one deep trying to get over the back and Rayner and whomever else in the space or leading up the ground to the wings or flanks or getting into the square to help at contest creating space behind for others to run into.

Stringer/Langford/Wright does not work so one or more elements need removal - ball gets out too easily and we get killed on rebound scores (mind you pressure in midfield not great either) so IMO Langford for a 1st and IMO Wright can work of his speed and conditioning in the off season to the the Luke Jackson 65-70% forward and 30-35% ruck person or Wright goes for bugger all and we pay some of his $$$$ or both Langers and Wright go and we have Stringer leading the forward line and teaching the Caddyshack Kid and the Jones Boy how to play KPF

Same way Shiel/Merrett/Parish midfield does not work - hence I'm trading Shiel and Parish so Bull, Jye, Hobbsy, Tsatas, Duursma, Perks, Marto can continue to develop and run in there with Zach. I'm happy to trade DP3 for a 1st and even pay some of his salary to give our kids chances to learn and grow IN THOSE SPOTS

only thing stringers led well is the line at the Buffett.

Part of the reason the forward line hasn’t worked is because Jake wants to play as a deep midsize forward mainly because he doesn’t have the tank to get through the middle or even play HHF

Dynamic player great radar but not committed to the fitness level needed of him to make the unit work.

If anything Jake is the player that can go (Feels like Carlton would want him)

 

[ghostdog]

We are not getting pick 4 for Draper. Not going to happen.

I don't think so either. I'd probably take it but I don't see it happening.

 

[Old Campaigner]

We were aren’t changing our entire forward set up and way we structure up over the summer we might aswell not even turn up for season 2025

It's probably too big an ask to change everything in one offseason but adding an elite small forward and maybe a KPF through the draft will at least get some pieces in place

 

[Rick Ross]

Not getting anything worth while for Jakie at the trade table.

Dumb to exit a 42 goal player - basically equal highest goals with Langford.

• Considering how bad our forward deliver was
• he can’t come back less fit (he may prove me wrong there - it is Stringer)

He’s days starting in the centre must surely be done. Forward 50 only.
1 year contracts only. Heavy on incentives.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Not getting anything worth while for Jakie at the trade table.

Dumb to exit a 42 goal player - basically equal highest goals with Langford.

Was it dumb to move on Hooker in 2021? They were both going at 1.8 goals a game.

Using "goals kicked" as the sole metric of success is like using number of disposals for for a midfielder. It's how we've been fooled into thinking Darcy Parish and Jye Menzie are good players.

 

[Rick Ross]

Was it dumb to move on Hooker in 2021? They were both going at 1.8 goals a game.

Using "goals kicked" as the sole metric of success is like using number of disposals for for a midfielder. It's how we've been fooled into thinking Darcy Parish and Jye Menzie are good players.

Agree disposal numbers are not a great measure of performance.

But I question not rating goals kicked…

Winning is literally about how many goals (ok, total points including behinds) you score (v oppo).

 

[Yoda_]

So how does our round 1, 2025 forward mix look?


F. Jake Stringer

25

Jake Stringer

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.8

5star

D

8.5

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

1.5

1star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

4star

G

2.5

5star

D

7.2

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.4

5star

- Kyle Langford

4

Kyle Langford

Age

27

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

8.3

3star

HB

7.3

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.3

5star

G

0.7

4star

D

17.4

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

3star

G

0.7

4star

D

8.2

2star

K

3.2

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

- Isaac Kako

Hf. Jade Gresham

11

Jade Gresham

Age

27

Ht

177cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

- Nate Caddy - Archie Perkins


I just dont know how its going to work.. Will we change the mix up completely.. Imagine the club decides enough is enough with Jake. That could shake the club down and show we are serious

 

[Rick Ross]

I think the biggest challenge for our forward line is delivery into it. Ok, pace, chase and crumbing from quality smalls a close second.

Mid - tall angle feels like it’s something we can maximise from:
Stringer - Langford - Caddy - Draper
At any time, only 3 are in the F50 (bench time plus Draper back up ruck).

 

[Nifft]

So how does our round 1, 2025 forward mix look?


F. Jake Stringer - Kyle Langford - Isaac Kako

Hf. Jade Gresham - Nate Caddy - Archie Perkins


I just dont know how its going to work.. Will we change the mix up completely.. Imagine the club decides enough is enough with Jake. That could shake the club down and show we are serious

I'd take Stringer out of there and rotate in resting ruck and/or another small. One good thing about Draper is that he crashes the packs so having a couple good smalls to take advantage would be good.

 

[hurlygurdy]

In a parallel universe where walla is a fitness fanatic, we made finals last year and are winning finals this year. Thought for the day

 

[nipst@r]

Stringer, Langford, plus 2 talls doesn't work.

Fwd line should be built around langford, caddy, Gresham/guelfi.

The 2 smalls plus a tall positions are up for grabs but whoever fills the roles is a much better mix.

Kako, draper, Wright, davey.

Stringer stays than we need to go small or have it so him and lamgford are not both inside f50 at the same time.