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Same; was genuinely thinking why am I even here? Benny Hill tune on the fake kazoo featured heavily that night from memory. good times lol
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Training 2024 Preseason reports and discussion
- Thread starter Strapping Young Lad
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- Nov 10, 2022
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AFL trying to fix that up…but Isuspect it’s more about betting than fans
- Nov 10, 2022
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Clarko must have been asleep when two players had 188 goals between them 2008
CBF looking but I reckon that’s the only time it happened in the last 30 years (edit maybe even longer)
Roughy 75 wins every Coleman since bar two ( I know finals not included)
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Newmo89
Club Legend
- Jul 27, 2021
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Hawthorn Development Coach and Box Hill Hawks Coach Zane Littlejohn - March 2024 by Talking Hawks
Timmy chatted with Hawthorn Development Coach and Box Hill Hawks coach Zane Littlejohn about the development of our young players, imparting knowledge and wisdom from his teaching background on the young Hawthorn list and the importance of the partnership between Hawthorn and Box Hill. Player...
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Hawthorn development coach and Box Hill coach
- Jun 28, 2013
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Ah but do you remember that Saints game where Clarko was ultra defensive and the supporters were pissed
- Jun 28, 2013
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MillerHawk
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I recall lots of slow sideways chip kicks in the back 50. Priority on retaining possession. Was hard to watch.
The Golden Glenferrie
Norm Smith Medallist
Correct
The hands of stone
Norm Smith Medallist
- Sep 13, 2020
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In Clarkos first year we actually had some games where we really took the game on and it came off for periods of time . It was really good to watch but you knew we wouldnt be able to sustain it
Brisbane was one , Richmond ( Buddy snagging 3 at the G ) even North and a few others.
Issue was teams would work us out and by mid year teams just stiffled us we couldnt score .
I think at that stage he decided to go possesion and then got the drab , boring games .
Obviously it worked as far as developing the team to what it would become
Brisbane was one , Richmond ( Buddy snagging 3 at the G ) even North and a few others.
Issue was teams would work us out and by mid year teams just stiffled us we couldnt score .
I think at that stage he decided to go possesion and then got the drab , boring games .
Obviously it worked as far as developing the team to what it would become
Back at Ormond in VAFA in like 2011 or 2012 Chris Fagan explained it to us just as Hawthorn had adopted a more defensive game style that Clarko continued using for the 3 peat and beyond it started pretty dour but got better as we focussed less on Buddy and became more dynamic forward.
It was the shift in 2010 about the Richmond game where Clarkson finally admitted the 2008 style had been found out. Initially it was thought that 2009 was mostly just players injured retired (young, croad, gilham, rioli, dew, ellis, hodge, cambpell) and once we had best players out there it would come good but it was just too easy to break through and get easy goals.
We adopted what Malthouse was doing at Collingwood and attacking down the wings then to the flanks and pockets rather than through the middle and switching the play to try and get open space. The idea was to attack in a way that if you turn it over you are already in position to defend. As Fagan said it took a while for the players to realise not to just use the 20-30 meters from the boundary and you can actually use this game plan but use nearly the entire half of the ground and still be in a defendable possition. This is where the chip pass to lead ups developed. 45 degree kicks from CHB to wing, backward to HBF, then to the edge of the square, then back out to the flank etc.. "Using the width" but still passing the ball within the grid we established to even on a turnover ALL players are within 80 meters of the ball (2008 cluster was full/half ground zone. Stkilda and Collindwood adapted frontal press to squeeze right up on deep forward entry) so even a run and long kick we have people there and we "make the ground smaller" to the opposition. Sure there is lots of open space but you can't get to it, everywhere in the 80 meters you can pass is many players. This style served us well even when we no longer had a good list we didn't really get smashed often under Clarkson as the devensive structure meant we were hard to score against 1st so even if we were weak offensively we were still in games.
Now to make this relevant again to today, there was an episode of I think "the Golden years" podcast with Sam Mitchell who at the time I think had only just returned from West Coast as an assistant and he was being interviewed mostly about his playing career and the flags etc.. He seemed incredibly frustrated that it took nearly a year and a half for Clarko to adapt from 2008 when it wasn't working.
It was the shift in 2010 about the Richmond game where Clarkson finally admitted the 2008 style had been found out. Initially it was thought that 2009 was mostly just players injured retired (young, croad, gilham, rioli, dew, ellis, hodge, cambpell) and once we had best players out there it would come good but it was just too easy to break through and get easy goals.
We adopted what Malthouse was doing at Collingwood and attacking down the wings then to the flanks and pockets rather than through the middle and switching the play to try and get open space. The idea was to attack in a way that if you turn it over you are already in position to defend. As Fagan said it took a while for the players to realise not to just use the 20-30 meters from the boundary and you can actually use this game plan but use nearly the entire half of the ground and still be in a defendable possition. This is where the chip pass to lead ups developed. 45 degree kicks from CHB to wing, backward to HBF, then to the edge of the square, then back out to the flank etc.. "Using the width" but still passing the ball within the grid we established to even on a turnover ALL players are within 80 meters of the ball (2008 cluster was full/half ground zone. Stkilda and Collindwood adapted frontal press to squeeze right up on deep forward entry) so even a run and long kick we have people there and we "make the ground smaller" to the opposition. Sure there is lots of open space but you can't get to it, everywhere in the 80 meters you can pass is many players. This style served us well even when we no longer had a good list we didn't really get smashed often under Clarkson as the devensive structure meant we were hard to score against 1st so even if we were weak offensively we were still in games.
Now to make this relevant again to today, there was an episode of I think "the Golden years" podcast with Sam Mitchell who at the time I think had only just returned from West Coast as an assistant and he was being interviewed mostly about his playing career and the flags etc.. He seemed incredibly frustrated that it took nearly a year and a half for Clarko to adapt from 2008 when it wasn't working.
i understand its only pre season games, which dont mean a lot, but the 2 games against the Bulldogs we looked very average for most of the 2 games
the conclusion has to be, 1. the Western Bulldogs are either a top end team, 2. they are in really good form or 3. we lack the ability to keep teams to low scores making it difficult to win, its hard to know which it is
Lewis and Sicily have put in very casual performances for 3 weeks now, trial and 2 Bulldogs games, which is a concern for the teams success as they are vital parts to our team, whether its form, they are playing casual, not taking it serious or just struggling with some unknown thing, its a concern
Chol - didnt play well against the Bulldogs, but also hurt a wrist/arm in the first game, should play better imo
Frost/Phillips - i thought Frost was disappointing, Phillips showed a bit
Breust/Gunston - they have yet to fire in the pre-season, im not sure how they will go this season?
Hardwick - playing forward, with our leaky defence he may be needed there?
Worpel/Nash/Ward - not in the best form atm, we need them to do better for our midfield to be competitive
Ginnivan/Watson - looking energetic and dangerous up forward
Scrimshaw - played well in first Bulldogs game, but really lowered his colours in the 2nd game
C.MacDonald - played well all 3 games
Amon/Impey - provided run and carry out of defence, Amons disposal is much better, but Impey is tougher in the contest
Hustwaite/MacKenzie - showing a lot of talent for young midfielders, exciting in their own ways
D'Ambrosio - played well on the outside, he is at least in form, so might get a game early
Maginness - good tagging roles on Sanders and Weightman, but outside of that role either in the midfield or defence really lacks polish and ability to win his own footy
Reeves - wins hit outs and usually wins a lot of clearances for the team, but with a midfield not trying and lacking Worpel or Nash doing anything, the midfield struggled,
The over use of handballs and sideways kicks and lack of aggression to go forward and give our guys a chance to win contests with lower numbers forward really stood out, over use of handballs leads to turnovers and turnovers is how you get scored against especially with our poor defensive structures and numbers, we need less looking for the perfect option and more kicking to areas that should always be manned to contest, looking for good options is good when you have time, our mids rarely had time so they had to do the old globetrotter tricks to keep poss transfering pressure to a team mate instead of when open, kick the thing to a place you know a forward is going to be instinctually imo, we flip the ball around gaining no advantage, we dont take ground and we dont create pressure for their defence, we transfer pressure to our own mids, its asinine, either find a runner or take ground imo anyways, its frustrating watching players unwilling to make a decision then giving away goals and then when the opposition has it, we dont even try and pressure then, we corral them..... hopefully this isnt how we play, because when we are on we look fantastic in bursts.
the conclusion has to be, 1. the Western Bulldogs are either a top end team, 2. they are in really good form or 3. we lack the ability to keep teams to low scores making it difficult to win, its hard to know which it is
Lewis and Sicily have put in very casual performances for 3 weeks now, trial and 2 Bulldogs games, which is a concern for the teams success as they are vital parts to our team, whether its form, they are playing casual, not taking it serious or just struggling with some unknown thing, its a concern
Chol - didnt play well against the Bulldogs, but also hurt a wrist/arm in the first game, should play better imo
Frost/Phillips - i thought Frost was disappointing, Phillips showed a bit
Breust/Gunston - they have yet to fire in the pre-season, im not sure how they will go this season?
Hardwick - playing forward, with our leaky defence he may be needed there?
Worpel/Nash/Ward - not in the best form atm, we need them to do better for our midfield to be competitive
Ginnivan/Watson - looking energetic and dangerous up forward
Scrimshaw - played well in first Bulldogs game, but really lowered his colours in the 2nd game
C.MacDonald - played well all 3 games
Amon/Impey - provided run and carry out of defence, Amons disposal is much better, but Impey is tougher in the contest
Hustwaite/MacKenzie - showing a lot of talent for young midfielders, exciting in their own ways
D'Ambrosio - played well on the outside, he is at least in form, so might get a game early
Maginness - good tagging roles on Sanders and Weightman, but outside of that role either in the midfield or defence really lacks polish and ability to win his own footy
Reeves - wins hit outs and usually wins a lot of clearances for the team, but with a midfield not trying and lacking Worpel or Nash doing anything, the midfield struggled,
The over use of handballs and sideways kicks and lack of aggression to go forward and give our guys a chance to win contests with lower numbers forward really stood out, over use of handballs leads to turnovers and turnovers is how you get scored against especially with our poor defensive structures and numbers, we need less looking for the perfect option and more kicking to areas that should always be manned to contest, looking for good options is good when you have time, our mids rarely had time so they had to do the old globetrotter tricks to keep poss transfering pressure to a team mate instead of when open, kick the thing to a place you know a forward is going to be instinctually imo, we flip the ball around gaining no advantage, we dont take ground and we dont create pressure for their defence, we transfer pressure to our own mids, its asinine, either find a runner or take ground imo anyways, its frustrating watching players unwilling to make a decision then giving away goals and then when the opposition has it, we dont even try and pressure then, we corral them..... hopefully this isnt how we play, because when we are on we look fantastic in bursts.
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thehardway
Team Captain
There are many here that dismiss practice match form and have the expectation that we'll flick the switch when the real stuff starts. I hope they're right.
Was there that night. A shocking game of football.
I’m with you on this. Highly concerned by our preseason form. I reckon we’ll get smacked by the bombers again.
Preseason form is about as reliable an indicator of what's going to happen, as a 1980s weather forecast.
You hope to see glimpses of something cohesive here and there, enthusiasm and performance from the young guys, and some match fitness for veterans.
Breust looked wobbly as hell at times in early 2023. Ended up kicking an insane number of goals for a small forward of his age.
We should improve from last year, with the understanding that we're about as up and down as The Big Dipper (the Luna Park version) used to be.
We could win by ten goals this week.
If not I just want to see the gap between our best and worst close up some more.
That wasn't even hawthorn's fault. It was like 30-70 possession to the saints.
The media (or rather finey on SEN) started the hawks are boring stuff
HedgeFund
Norm Smith Medallist
If you play well / win your preseason matches, you go into Rd 1 confident - that you can continue that output.
If you don’t play well / win you go into Rd 1 hopeful - that you can improve quickly.
That’s about all it is.
At this stage we are all hopeful of an improved performance next week which is good enough to knock off the Bombers.
If you don’t play well / win you go into Rd 1 hopeful - that you can improve quickly.
That’s about all it is.
At this stage we are all hopeful of an improved performance next week which is good enough to knock off the Bombers.
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- Nov 10, 2022
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For all the attacking talk….all four teams barely passed 10 goals
HedgeFund
Norm Smith Medallist
13, 12, 12 and 9 is three teams comfortably passing 10 goals and one team just short.
Yes this whole, “we are going to see team attacking a lot more this season” is a bit of wishful thinking, if the games just played are anything to go by.
