2025 player moves - ins and outs

[Carn The Berries]

Add a few others to this. Balwyn, Vermont, probably east ringwood now. Balwyn's last two coaches probably on $75k+

For south belgrave. Height's been a mercenary himself outside his whitefriars stints, one stint where he was 'working' a couple of days a week at the school doing sweet F all and getting paid. He would know how to sell it. I'd be worried if I was WF, he'd be after their best offering $$$$$ legit or not

I'm pretty sure he was a teacher at the school for a number of years and was head of the PE department for at least a couple, as well as teaching science. Not exactly the sort of roles that would be given to someone "phoning it in" under and circumstances.

 

[Carn The Berries]

The points cap is objectively not doing the job it was designed for.

When it was introduced (along with the salary cap) the stated aim was to encourage building from juniors, hence the huge discount (1 point) for home players).

But with the points at 47, it’s almost totally irrelevant.

Nearly every player in the state in 3 points. And after just one season they’re 2 points.

This is a perfectly acceptable mix that still has you under the limit:

8x 3 pointers
8x 2 pointers
6x 1 pointers

How can having just 6 homegrown players of 22 be within the rules if they want to encourage growth from juniors?

And that squad will drop by 16 points next year, so even more room to go buying players.

This is how the likes of South Belgrave operate.

The total is too high

Dropping every player by 1 point every year is too much. Maybe they could drop a point every second year? I don’t know.

The biggest issue, as it so often is, is with the leagues. They are narrow empires-building operations that do not want any of these measures because they want their league to be better than the league next door. When really, who gives a ****?

The one point annual discount is the biggest issue with the entire system in my opinion. It does absolutely nothing to promote genuine loyalty to a club. Happy for a player to get knocked down by a point after 3 years, but that should be it.

Until that's fixed, the system won't work.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Dropping every player by 1 point every year is too much. Maybe they could drop a point every second year? I don’t know.

Three years is a decent enough showing of loyalty, not one.
Drop a player's points tally by one each year from the fourth consecutive season onwards until it reaches two.

 

[localfootylegend23]

I'm pretty sure he was a teacher at the school for a number of years and was head of the PE department for at least a couple, as well as teaching science. Not exactly the sort of roles that would be given to someone "phoning it in" under and circumstances.

Happy to be proven wrong, just not what I heard in the division 2 years.
Mentioned earlier he claimed that the new players had "links" to the club and thats why they moved. Pissing down our backs and saying its raining there. Huge cash more like it.

 

[thefunnelweb]

The one point annual discount is the biggest issue with the entire system in my opinion. It does absolutely nothing to promote genuine loyalty to a club. Happy for a player to get knocked down by a point after 3 years, but that should be it.

Until that's fixed, the system won't work.

When loyalty is spoken about if a player is offered money at another club call it “market value” is it then not loyalty from the local club to say maybe we have been under paying you and under valuing you because you were home grown talent?? So we will match the “market value” or should it be on the player to play for under market value? (Also taking into consideration you know nothing about the players financial situation or motivation behind moving)

 

[Nvent]

I haven't seen a club being done for breech of the cap, it may have happened but I haven't seen it. The point system is where clubs have been caught out. In my view, the points should be decreased even further. The salary cap can't be policed as there are too many loopholes.

Points need to be reviewed. Juniors recruited from other clubs should incur a much higher rate to be some kind of deterrent.

Also the cap has to be much more scrutinised. I’m sure administrators can see previous payments and it wouldn’t be that hard to spot a glaring rort. Players on big money previously don’t all turn up to the same club for well under what they were getting.

 

[champp53]

Points need to be reviewed. Juniors recruited from other should incur a much higher rate to be some kind of deterrent.

Also the cap has to be much more scrutinised. I’m sure administrators can see previous payments and it wouldn’t be that hard to spot a glaring rort. Players on big money previously don’t all turn up to the same club for well under what they were getting.

I believe the nature of some payments makes it extremely hard to prove. Most of them are paid outside salary cap by other means such as employment.

 

[Nvent]

I believe the nature of some payments makes it extremely hard to prove. Most of them are paid outside salary cap by other means such as employment.

Employment well that is tough and to be fair reasonable.

The glaring ones are players on $900 and club hopping then move to a club an hour away and put down $250.

 

[champp53]

Employment well that is tough and to be fair reasonable.

The glaring ones are players on $900 and club hopping then move to a club an hour away and put down $250.

That would be the old “ mates at the club” chestnut

 

[eflreceiver]

I believe the nature of some payments makes it extremely hard to prove. Most of them are paid outside salary cap by other means such as employment.

You can buy a player a car, a pool, a spa and it’s legit.

 

[Nvent]

That would be the old “ mates at the club” chestnut

Yes agreed. So obvious it’s stupid yet clubs continue to get away with it. Truely believe the powers above just turn their heads saying I’m not touching that.

 

[Squib]

When loyalty is spoken about if a player is offered money at another club call it “market value” is it then not loyalty from the local club to say maybe we have been under paying you and under valuing you because you were home grown talent?? So we will match the “market value” or should it be on the player to play for under market value? (Also taking into consideration you know nothing about the players financial situation or motivation behind moving)

Loyalty now is at an absolute low point. When junior coaches, I’m talking about 17.5 and below, are actively chasing the best players from rival clubs via phone call’s, what hope do senior clubs have when this occurs?! Clubs are loosing whole age groups after their better players are lured away, the rest jump ship, no one wants to lose so kids bail to stronger teams. A club with 2 teams in every age group at max numbers, yet their 2 neighbouring clubs can barely get a side on the park. Fix that, and then kids learn loyalty. IMO, it’s gone for the most part.
Pay local kids their value, anything less is disrespectful and taking the piss. Doesn’t have to be exhorborant, just make their loyalty worth something.

 

[Th3B1gD0g]

Norwood have signed Mitch Hardie from Geelong VFL, great player but can’t see him playing many more than 2-3 games for Norwood?

 

[Nvent]

Loyalty now is at an absolute low point. When junior coaches, I’m talking about 17.5 and below, are actively chasing the best players from rival clubs via phone call’s, what hope do senior clubs have when this occurs?! Clubs are loosing whole age groups after their better players are lured away, the rest jump ship, no one wants to lose so kids bail to stronger teams. A club with 2 teams in every age group at max numbers, yet their 2 neighbouring clubs can barely get a side on the park. Fix that, and then kids learn loyalty. IMO, it’s gone for the most part.
Pay local kids their value, anything less is disrespectful and taking the piss. Doesn’t have to be exhorborant, just make their loyalty worth something.

I believe that junior transfers have to be canned also. Sorry Little Johnny you live 100 meters from Lilydale oval your not getting cleared to East Ringwood Under 14’s.

 

[Squib]

I believe that junior transfers have to be canned also. Sorry Little Johnny you live 100 meters from Lilydale oval your not getting cleared to East Ringwood Under 14’s.

I’m not sure that’s the answer. Kids are fickle these days and more likely to just not play if that’s the case. Then lost to football all together. The transfer system is flawed. Only a few can move to a rival club unless the side falls over, then it’s a free for all. Which more often happens.
And ultimately kids want to play with mates, that I absolutely get. Not sure what the solution is but massive clubs with 45+ in every age group while up the road has 6 teams in total, isn’t good.

 

[Nvent]

I’m not sure that’s the answer. Kids are fickle these days and more likely to just not play if that’s the case. Then lost to football all together. The transfer system is flawed. Only a few can move to a rival club unless the side falls over, then it’s a free for all. Which more often happens.
And ultimately kids want to play with mates, that I absolutely get. Not sure what the solution is but massive clubs with 45+ in every age group while up the road has 6 teams in total, isn’t good.

Generally you’ll find this is glory hunting adult driven. They have 10 handy kids and 15 not so good. Rather than work with what they have they chase surrounding kids to create one great side and one not good.

 

[Squib]

Generally you’ll find this is glory hunting adult driven. They have 10 handy kids and 15 not so good. Rather than work with what they have they chase surrounding kids to create one great side and one not good.

I completed agree, why else would Jnr coaches call opposition players?

It’s just not health for the competition. Thats why loyalty is fading throughout seniors and juniors.

There’s always other factors like wanting better footy, just not happy at a club, and sometimes fellas do just want to play with mates (crazy I know ) but egotistical junior coaches have a flow on effect to the senior ranks. Players will jump around. Kids are racking up 3 and 4 junior clubs before they’re 17.5 year. It’s bananas

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

You can buy a player a car, a pool, a spa and it’s legit.

You forgot, free whitegoods, furniture, paying with a gambling account/gambling voucher, an overseas trip or maybe a fuel card. Getting the clubs cleaning contract or management of the canteen which means you need to unlock the cleaning cupboard or canteen door for the people who actually do the work. Gift cards from any business that has them. If you have a sponsor with a large business, contracts to perform work for them can be quite large. My favourite one that a lot of country club apparently do is, at the beginning of the year you are given/buy a number of calves who weigh around a 100kg. They are placed on a few supporters farms and at the end of the year or the following year when they are fully grown and weigh 900Kg +, you sell them. The difference (depending on the breed) between the purchase and selling price is around $1-2K per animal.

The salary cap is only a problem for the honest clubs. The salary cap isn't the answer, there are far too many loopholes that allow avoidance.

A modified Player points system is the way to try.
It can be modified as needed. Lower total points (it hasn't changed since it started) and a longer time before they are reduced. A player from the junior club who has transfered across from another club, should be worth at least 2 points in their first year in the seniors. If they've been at their new club less that 3 years, maybe it should be greater.

I wouldn't be surprised if 25% of clubs are manipulating their salary cap.

 

[Nvent]

You forgot, free whitegoods, furniture, paying with a gambling account/gambling voucher, an overseas trip or maybe a fuel card. Getting the clubs cleaning contract or management of the canteen which means you need to unlock the cleaning cupboard or canteen door for the people who actually do the work. Gift cards from any business that has them. If you have a sponsor with a large business, contracts to perform work for them can be quite large. My favourite one that a lot of country club apparently do is, at the beginning of the year you are given/buy a number of calves who weigh around a 100kg. They are placed on a few supporters farms and at the end of the year or the following year when they are fully grown and weigh 900Kg +, you sell them. The difference (depending on the breed) between the purchase and selling price is around $1-2K per animal.

The salary cap is only a problem for the honest clubs. The salary cap isn't the answer, there are far too many loopholes that allow avoidance.

A modified Player points system is the way to try.
It can be modified as needed. Lower total points (it hasn't changed since it started) and a longer time before they are reduced. A player from the junior club who has transfered across from another club, should be worth at least 2 points in their first year in the seniors. If they've been at their new club less that 3 years, maybe it should be greater.

I wouldn't be surprised if 25% of clubs are manipulating their salary cap.

The salary cap is easy to monitor if officials have balls. Players on good money at previous clubs who all arrive at another club on far less is clearly enough to raise alarm bells

 

[hotchilli]

The salary cap is easy to monitor if officials have balls. Players on good money at previous clubs who all arrive at another club on far less is clearly enough to raise alarm bells

The cap certainly does help to push clubs in doing the right thing along with the points cap.

As a whole we are in a better state compared to 10 years ago regarding the money being thrown around.

Unfortunately the level of admin across leagues is pretty minimal compared to the number of clubs so you are realistically relying on clubs to do the right thing.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

The salary cap is easy to monitor if officials have balls. Players on good money at previous clubs who all arrive at another club on far less is clearly enough to raise alarm bells

Realistically, unless the tax department is involved then it's very difficult to prove a lot of those things. The League could spend a lot of money and find nothing. How do you prove a sponsor is buying groceries and having them delivered to a players wife at her work or home without employing someone to sit outside for weeks to just see a delivery. How do you prove that the meat tray raffle isn't rigged. What you are describing is what is already going on. That's what all of us can see going on at the moment. Lots of players arriving at a club with their past performances indicating they should be on good money. How do you tell if a new player from an AFL club has managed to snag a few contracts for his business. Is it simply because he runs a good business or because 3 or 4 club sponsors have decided their businesses will work with his.
As I said honest clubs will work within the cap, while others will use it to their advantage. Points are a lot more transparent and can't be manipulated as easily. If they can set up the points system properly, things will become much fairer. Though doubtless some clubs will try poaching players from lower grades.

 

[localfootylegend23]

Norwood have signed Mitch Hardie from Geelong VFL, great player but can’t see him playing many more than 2-3 games for Norwood?

They did this last year with Tom highmore, dunno if he played more a couple of games. They need a lot more in to be competitive. Plus their poor 2's had a % of 3 getting absolutely destroyed each week with sometimes 13 or 14 players.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

There are some things that can be done to strengthen the points system but they will take some investment and commitment.

- Simple: lower the total

- Simple: review and fix the -1 point per year rule. It’s far too generous and allows clubs to recruit year after year. Perhaps you drop a point after three years. Perhaps the lowest you can go is two points (unless you’re a home player)

- Simple: fix the home player rules. You can only be a home player for the first club you qualify for (play three years of junior footy). This can work against the Vermont practice of aggressive recruiting at U14 / U15 level.

- Simple: block transfers of more than 5 players from a single club to another each year. At junior and senior level. Exoduses is what kills clubs. Stop whole groups of players / mates leaving a club in the lurch just to go to another down the road. Of course, exemptions can be applied for where a club / team folds and the players have to go elsewhere.

- Simple: find a way to deal with the divisions properly. A senior player at a D1 club is not the same value as a senior player at a D4 club. Stop treating them both as three pointers.

- A little harder but do-able: Each year in pre season, every club needs to submit their rankings of most valuable players from 1-30. It would be a simple system setup for every club to do it. Apparently the B&F thing was “too hard”, well this would make it easier. Clubs are motivated to do it properly as they don’t want to lose their best players. Players 1-5, 5-10, 10-20, 20-30 and 30+ can be given appropriate point ratings

- Harder but do-able: Review and work on junior transfers properly. We’ve all got the data. Which clubs are constantly bringing in junior players from other clubs? Especially highly rated juniors. Haul their committee before a AFLV panel to explain themselves. Why is it happening? Totally acceptable reasons? Fair enough. Are you actively recruiting? Why? Question parents of transferred kids. You’d soon find the culprits such as Vermont. Hit them with a junior transfer ban for a year or two. They’re making football uncompetitive so they can pay the price.

Or maybe we’d rather have a few clubs, each with 10 teams in an age group. Great.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Also, give parents of kids a proper, neutral contact within the Coates League system someone to speak to if they’d like to know about elite pathways.

The number of “you’ve gotta come here and play for our club to get noticed for Ranges / Chargers” stories are endless in local footy. So let the parents cut through the bullshit - give them somebody at the Coates club to speak to about this and explain whether it a required move for their talented kid, or whether it’s just a local footy w***er pulling himself.

It can all be done, just a matter of will.

 

[Nvent]

Also, give parents of kids a proper, neutral contact within the Coates League system someone to speak to if they’d like to know about elite pathways.

The number of “you’ve gotta come here and play for our club to get noticed for Ranges / Chargers” stories are endless in local footy. So let the parents cut through the bullshit - give them somebody at the Coates club to speak to about this and explain whether it a required move for their talented kid, or whether it’s just a local footy w***er pulling himself.

It can all be done, just a matter of will.

Double down on that I believe. If it’s found that any coach or official at a TAC club is pushing kids to other clubs they should be removed. The spiel that a kid needs to move clubs for a better chance of being selected is unacceptable