Training 2025 Pre-Season Training - reports, pics etc

[JustOneTime]

Kicking efficiency is complicated. Carlton's slow movement forward down the line and high up and under kicking from defence vs Hawthorn/Pies fast ball transition.

These transition plans impact kicking efficiency.

Individually on our players i think we are fine with kicking efficiency but suffer because of out stopage game and forced rush kicks. I do think Voss is building a game based to suit Cripps - our leader and best player. This leads to less efficient kicking stats. The stoppage game leads to less space and time and impacts a lot of our players.

So aside from the impact of our ball movement there are just a few players on our list who are weak on disposal naturally and one of those is Cripps. Every team has a player like Cripps.

Other than that, i think last year our defenders panicked a lot led by Kemp which also impacted our kicking efficiency in 2024. I'm glad he is moving out as his panic was starting to rub off on others. Our 2024 defenders like Kemp, McGovern and Young do panic and dont have the right defender profile/mentality.

 

[JustOneTime]

Generally, analysis whether we win or lose can be extreme, especially player output

Personally the two biggest factors leading into the season is what tweaks evolve in the gameplan/tactics and total player buy in to play their role

We've seen that our attacking and defensive structures were good enough, but lacked consistency throughout a game and season.

I put this down to poor tempo and or feel for the moment or periods of a game

Agree with this. So many posters see us lose and berate the players and their lack of trying.

I really believe that in 90%+ of the horrible losses the players gave it everything but the gameplan just didn't match up well versus the oppositions gameplan. Situations where the players are asked to follow certain instructions to only see that those instructions undo the side. An example of that is in the defence and handovers and marking space led to teams getting away from us in some games. When a side puts space on us due to stupidity yes, they fold in a bit given how hard it is to win a game so physically demanding.

I only see a slide in player effort when it is 'really' obvious our gameplan is broken in some matchups. I can accept that.

 

[Zlatan]

Match sims should be all about keeping the ball moving between the arcs with overlapping run, and defensive transition when the ball is lost - we’re already masters at hold ball + kick down line

 

[BlueTongue]

Kicking efficiency is complicated. Carlton's slow movement forward down the line and high up and under kicking from defence vs Hawthorn/Pies fast ball transition.

These transition plans impact kicking efficiency.

Individually on our players i think we are fine with kicking efficiency but suffer because of out stopage game and forced rush kicks. I do think Voss is building a game based to suit Cripps - our leader and best player. This leads to less efficient kicking stats. The stoppage game leads to less space and time and impacts a lot of our players.

So aside from the impact of our ball movement there are just a few players on our list who are weak on disposal naturally and one of those is Cripps. Every team has a player like Cripps.

Other than that, i think last year our defenders panicked a lot led by Kemp which also impacted our kicking efficiency in 2024. I'm glad he is moving out as his panic was starting to rub off on others. Our 2024 defenders like Kemp, McGovern and Young do panic and dont have the right defender profile/mentality.

I think most of the issues you have highlighted are heavily impacted by pressure & confidence.
We are a team that's been down so long, the pressure meter is sky high, along with the fact that everyone sees us in the 'window' so double the pressure..

I've said this for several years now, but I'd like to see the entire forward group play with more hunger and not GAF about missing.

As long as they aren't burning a teammate in a better position, they should all be backing themselves to take the shot, rather than looking to Charlie/Harry. The more forwards we have taking their shot, the more chaos it is for the OP defense.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Has special agent Coona Blues been kidnapped today?

 

[Navy Blues 73]

Has special agent Coona Blues been kidnapped today?

 

[BlueNath]

Individually on our players i think we are fine with kicking efficiency but suffer because of out stopage game and forced rush kicks. I do think Voss is building a game based to suit Cripps - our leader and best player. This leads to less efficient kicking stats. The stoppage game leads to less space and time and impacts a lot of our players.

So aside from the impact of our ball movement there are just a few players on our list who are weak on disposal naturally and one of those is Cripps. Every team has a player like Cripps.

Im sorry, both those comments are false. Cripps is a freak, so maybe that informs some of our stoppage work and clearance work. But beyond that I just dont get the logic that professional AFL clubs build game plans around a single player on their team. You may need to elaborate further.

As for "weak on disposal", I just don't agree Cripps is a fair target here. Especially in the last 2 years. Have you got stats that can prove this argument compared to fellow inside mids? I think if you hunt down the stats you may quickly appreciate just how good Cripps is

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

I hope he hasn't been flattened by a giant acme anvil.

 

[Coona Blues]

Has special agent Coona Blues been kidnapped today?

They don’t do big sessions on consecutive days. Will be a big one tomorrow. Bottom line, I am home, can only do so much torrential rain on a family break. Kid got some dry zoo time this morning before the rain came back in as we left and for the majority of the 300km home. Will be some photos to share when this exhausted old bloke gets to the task.

If anyone can get to Maroochydore at 8am tomorrow, maybe they can take up the mantle. Will drip feed images when I get to it.

 

[Coona Blues]

I hope he hasn't been flattened by a giant acme anvil.

Maybe a water wall if you have some in the arsenal

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Maybe a water wall if you have some in the arsenal

It's very soggy up this part of the world.
Trees are falling over at my place, hope it doesn't get windy.

Appreciate your updates.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

It’s incredible how we have accepted this over the years. Particularly with our leaders.
Cripps disposal has improved significantly over the last 2 years, was ordinary before then.
Walsh’s has steadily declined.
Doc bombs it high and without thought when under pressure.
Harry and Charlie flaky set shots but excellent field kicks.
Williams hot & cold.
Cerra great before injury, but woeful last two years.
Acres kicks them twice as high as long.
Interesting that Weiters has always been very good.
Newman is a great, creative kick.

Boyd talked up as the best kick in the league mid 2024, then couldn’t hit the side of a barn.
Ollie very average. Holds onto it too long so kicks under pressure.
Saad bombs it long too often, only hits targets with those short 90 degree passes.

I could go on.

Cerra woeful the last two years? Uhhh what?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

An underrated aspect of this kicking debate is the receivers themselves.

As someone who's played both high grades and low grades depending on whether I could be arsed putting down the Tim Tams over the off season I often found it easier to play the level above funnily enough. I was always a good user but struggled immensely in the lower grades compared to hitting targets in the 1s.

Was that because I was fitter? Partly, but kicking to teammates who can create space on the lead and know which kicks certain players like genuinely makes a world of difference.

Who you're kicking to also makes a huge difference and whether they know what you tend to favour. Owies for all his flaws knew exactly what Charlie liked when he was kicking inside 50, half his goals seemed to come from Charlie wheeling around from 70 out and kicking it running back to goal on a diagonal over the back of the press. Someone like Walsh on the other hand seems to love a low stab pass to players leading directly at him more so than kicking it deep. It's all personal preference but every player has a favourite/most reliable kick in their arsenal.

I don't think we'll ever be surgical by foot with this current iteration of the team but having some genuine plodders running about each week and players who lack footy IQ forward of the ball greatly limits who and where you can kick to on the footy field.

Imo thats why our ball movement from the back half consistently looked 10x better whenever we had players like Cuningham, Martin, Docherty etc fit ahead of the ball. They made it loads easier for the kickers to actually hit them in space rather than having to be centimeter perfect when we've been playing without them.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

What u/18 draftee with questionable kicking style, accuracy etc has really turned it around? From my perspective they all remain about the same or slightly improve. For example, Ollie Hollands is an ok kick - but is slow boot to ball & lacks penetration, I expect he will improve, but not that much.

I'd ask which player hasn't improved their kicking from year 1 to 5? They all improve. There are always going to be those guys that are and are not elite kicks. You're mixing that up with zero improvement. Carrazzo for example couldn't hit the side of a barn to start off with but would compare favourably to our current mids for kicking efficiency by the latter stages of his career.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'd ask which player hasn't improved their kicking from year 1 to 5? They all improve. There are always going to be those guys that are and are not elite kicks. You're mixing that up with zero improvement. Carrazzo for example couldn't hit the side of a barn to start off with but would compare favourably to our current mids for kicking efficiency by the latter stages of his career.

I'd argue Jason Castagna kept his elite ability to spray and shank just about every kick he ever attempted all the way through.

That said he was a fantastic role player even with that flaw.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Wow....HO'K becoming a bit of a beast before our eyes. Only just turned 20yo yesterday (happy b'day big fella) - AND has a fair bit of mongrel in him to top it orff JustaBattler

If he can stay fit, I can see him getting a gig at some stage during 2025.

 

[JustaBattler]

Wow....HO'K becoming a bit of a beast before our eyes. Only just turned 20yo yesterday (happy b'day big fella) - AND has a fair bit of mongrel in him to top it orff JustaBattler

If he can stay fit, I can see him getting a gig at some stage during 2025.

View attachment 2189374

He is also a veruy good set shot for goal - beautiful action. look at the siuze of him- looks like a genune rugby second rower/lock

 

[Arr0w]

Wow....HO'K becoming a bit of a beast before our eyes. Only just turned 20yo yesterday (happy b'day big fella) - AND has a fair bit of mongrel in him to top it orff JustaBattler

If he can stay fit, I can see him getting a gig at some stage during 2025.

View attachment 2189374

Won't be long

 

[BigFrizz36]

I'd ask which player hasn't improved their kicking from year 1 to 5? They all improve. There are always going to be those guys that are and are not elite kicks. You're mixing that up with zero improvement. Carrazzo for example couldn't hit the side of a barn to start off with but would compare favourably to our current mids for kicking efficiency by the latter stages of his career.

Josh Dunkley is a pretty average kick and always has been. Had the 2nd worse kicking average in 2023 (just in front of clarry oliver). Does a lot of other things very well though.

Zac Fisher was rated the best kick in the comp that year by the metric that rates the degree of difficulty of the kick etc. Probably another meaningless stat though.

I'm not convinced that Worpel and Newcombe have improved their kicking much, more have found ways to camouflage it. Dangerfield is a powerful kick but has always sprayed it. Oliver hasn't improved his kicking much in his career. Rowbottom is a fairly average kick still.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

A TDK HOK combo sounds a little bit too awesome.

Interested to see how HOK goes this year though, I imagine he'll attract some rival interest if he continues to develop from what he showed last year. Fairly smart footballer on top of being a good athlete.

 

[Soapy V]

Wow....HO'K becoming a bit of a beast before our eyes. Only just turned 20yo yesterday (happy b'day big fella) - AND has a fair bit of mongrel in him to top it orff JustaBattler

If he can stay fit, I can see him getting a gig at some stage during 2025.

View attachment 2189374

Yep. Told ya

 

[Coona Blues]

A TDK HOK combo sounds a little bit too awesome.

Interested to see how HOK goes this year though, I imagine he'll attract some rival interest if he continues to develop from what he showed last year. Fairly smart footballer on top of being a good athlete.

Nah
Pitto at 28 and falling behind TDK becomes expendable and likely to net a third rounder on the ruck merry-go-round.
De Koning at 25 entering the window of his prime.
O’Keeffe just turned 20, so time is on his side and firmly entrenched. Doubt we see to much this year in the ones. Dominate VFL and remain on rookie list for another year is our best result short term.

Lemmey looking at an avenue to the big time can be expected to offer a genuine chop out until we develop the next ruck progression picked up next off season or so.

The way our list management is working of late, I will not be surprised if we already have a left field option developing in the shadows.

 

[Kernafides]

Im sorry, both those comments are false. Cripps is a freak, so maybe that informs some of our stoppage work and clearance work. But beyond that I just dont get the logic that professional AFL clubs build game plans around a single player on their team. You may need to elaborate further.

As for "weak on disposal", I just don't agree Cripps is a fair target here. Especially in the last 2 years. Have you got stats that can prove this argument compared to fellow inside mids? I think if you hunt down the stats you may quickly appreciate just how good Cripps is

Not sure about these days but I used to do the stats for the 2s which scored me an invite into the senior box a few times. One of the stats they measured was the number of blocks we put on for Judd. Yes he was a freak but a part of me thought it was a bit stiff for other mids and a bit messiah complex

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Nah
Pitto at 28 and falling behind TDK becomes expendable and likely to net a third rounder on the ruck merry-go-round.
De Koning at 25 entering the window of his prime.
O’Keeffe just turned 20, so time is on his side and firmly entrenched. Doubt we see to much this year in the ones. Dominate VFL and remain on rookie list for another year is our best result short term.

Lemmey looking at an avenue to the big time can be expected to offer a genuine chop out until we develop the next ruck progression picked up next off season or so.

The way our list management is working of late, I will not be surprised if we already have a left field option developing in the shadows.

I agree we won't see much of HOK this year, but going forward that pairing would imo be better suited than Pitto TDK. Has more forward smarts and better int he air than Pitto.

I'd be very excited to see him in action when his time comes.

 

[windows1]

You're spot on.
Ollie being groomed to play that 'sweeper' role is fine but his kicking needs improvement.
I suppose we're hoping Boyd can be that Zorko / Houston type ball user coming out of our back half. Big ask but players like that are so important to how a team sets up defensively and when it's time to transition quickly.

Boyd, Zac & Cerra are really the only three I want kicking the ball to Harry & Charlie. They're not the most consistent but arguably our best hit-up kickers.

Ollie still taking forever to get boot to ball in training. Ridiculous he and they can’t sort that most basic of skills out.