20th AFL Team

[Badger17]

Anything north of the tropic of Capricorn. (Major cities to base home games Darwin/Cairns split. Possible Townsville)
Passionate sense of identity and a will to support their area. Core element to support a team.
Think how Tassie is passionate and this drive lead to a team. WA footy the same.

You're flat wrong if you think there's a sense of shared identity between the NT and NQ.

 

[RedV3x]

The investors in Perth have dodged a bullet, as the NRL were only considering them as a lubricant necessary to get the Bears back into the league.

There was no way that Cash Converters could have done the necessary job in W.A. that the AFL does on the East coast and the job that the NRL needs to do but doesn't.

 

[Badger17]

There was no way that Cash Converters could have done the necessary job in W.A. that the AFL does on the East coast and the job that the NRL needs to do but doesn't.

Mate, the NRL is at the point where it's sides can survive off the annual grant and base income alone. Obviously it wouldn't be ideal, but they'd scrape by. That makes expansion comparatively accessible for them, if they ever care to take it seriously.

Besides, the NRL has no intention of doing the job 'necessary' in WA. The Bears are the priority, and as PVL has repeatedly stated, bringing them back for "the fans" is the goal, not a genuine attempt to expand the sport's reach outside of the East Coast.

If they're smart the WA government will refuse to support any NRL side for as long as the Bears are involved, as they're literally just being used. Unfortunately I'm yet to meet a politician that's smart.

 

[Walshawk]

Anything north of the tropic of Capricorn. (Major cities to base home games Darwin/Cairns split. Possible Townsville)
Passionate sense of identity and a will to support their area. Core element to support a team.
Think how Tassie is passionate and this drive lead to a team. WA footy the same.

Not sure about that. Are people in Cairns tribal about the Nth Queensland Cowboys? Seems to be just as many Broncos fans there.

 

[errant bounce]

The Perth NRL side is just a push from a very vocal minority and their vocally arseholes. not just passionate, but total hip shooters who peg their cause from absolute nonsense.

Perth's rugby demographic is in union from all the South Africans. Kiwis as well support union. New Zealand Warriors have become massive over there only because of some really good marketing: affordable tickets for a good night out and the 'Wahs' thing was well done, as cringey as it might be.

I grew up in WA and even in 'rugby' areas, those rugby clubs were union ones. I've literally never come across a rugby league club.

People like to think it's some sort of sleeping giant but it really isn't. Melbourne's a city of over four million people and the Melbourne Storm barely permeate the popular consciousness.

Perth is even more of a strict 'footy in winter, cricket in summer' city than Melbourne. most people are fiercely attached to the West Coast Eagles. it's like an extension of their identity.

I mean ffs Perth's full of English expats and even with no other major weekly sports, the Glory have been averaging about 7,000 for the last decade. and they have a 30 year, established name and colours and even if people just see them as 'being shit for ages,' they still can't pull a massive crowd.

If the Force playing union failed, I cannot see league succeeding. it'll die on its arse.

 

[RedV3x]

Besides, the NRL has no intention of doing the job 'necessary' in WA. The Bears are the priority, and as PVL has repeatedly stated, bringing them back for "the fans" is the goal, not a genuine attempt to expand the sport's reach outside of the East Coast.

If that is the case, then that's weird
Instead of $600 million for a PNG side you could have the Bears for literally a tiny fraction of the cost.

 

[The_Wookie]

Mate, the NRL is at the point where it's sides can survive off the annual grant and base income alone. Obviously it wouldn't be ideal, but they'd scrape by. That makes expansion comparatively accessible for them, if they ever care to take it seriously.

Besides, the NRL has no intention of doing the job 'necessary' in WA. The Bears are the priority, and as PVL has repeatedly stated, bringing them back for "the fans" is the goal, not a genuine attempt to expand the sport's reach outside of the East Coast.

If they're smart the WA government will refuse to support any NRL side for as long as the Bears are involved, as they're literally just being used. Unfortunately I'm yet to meet a politician that's smart.

Making the Bears involvement non negotiable is just stupid. And speaks volumes about the NRLs actiual aims.

 

[Bjo187]

I always find it funny that the leagiues up in Sydney call the afl the vfl to make it appear like a silly Victorian thing they only do down there, yet I realised the Broncos won the premiership in what was the nswrl in 93 or so.

There are also more nsw teams in the nrl on percentage than afl teams in the afl from Victoria. It shows how nsw centric (despite being a sport imported from England) this competition is and this is reflective in the bears and now albo's jets being on the cusp of re- entry.

I also know pvl lives in North Sydney somewhere coz my mate sees him dropping off his kids at school there, so he clearly sees it as a way to endear himself to his own area. Funnily enough, his kids school team just won the nsw private schools AFL premiership this year and rugby league isn't even played at the school.

 

[RedV3x]

I always find it funny that the leagiues up in Sydney call the AFL the VFL to make it appear like a silly Victorian thing they only do down there, yet I realised the Broncos won the premiership in what was the nswrl in 93 or so.

It goes further than just the Mexican thing. "Sydney" is synonymous with "Australia" up there, so the Victorian game must be anti-Australian in their eyes.

It shows how NSW centric (despite being a sport imported from England) this competition is

No, Australia developed the game and we are world champions so obviously NRL is Australian.
Victorians developed their game and only they play it so obviously it's not Australian.

I also know pvl lives in North Sydney somewhere coz my mate sees him dropping off his kids at school there, so he clearly sees it as a way to endear himself to his own area. Funnily enough, his kids school team just won the NSW private schools AFL premiership this year and rugby league isn't even played at the school.

I love that.

 

[Badger17]

If that is the case, then that's weird
Instead of $600 million for a PNG side you could have the Bears for literally a tiny fraction of the cost.

They don't even try to deny that they're screwing Perth anymore. Initially the deluded tragic types would say that it was just a conspiracy theory being spread by "anti-Sydney" people who hate the Bears, but now they openly admit that it's happening and that it's actually a good thing.

And get this; the $600 million isn't even for a PNG side. It's for a foreign aid program for the whole of the pacific, and the funding for the PNG team is estimated to only be about a third of that money.

PNG is another case where everybody except the absolute crazies is freely admitting that it's completely unsustainable at this point. So like Perth, the PNG team is being set up to fail, as it will almost certainly die the moment the government money runs out. So two of the four proposed expansion sides (including the Dolphins) are knowingly being set up to fail.

As I said before, it's a farce.

 

[Badger17]

I always find it funny that the leagiues up in Sydney call the afl the vfl to make it appear like a silly Victorian thing they only do down there, yet I realised the Broncos won the premiership in what was the nswrl in 93 or so.

There are also more nsw teams in the nrl on percentage than afl teams in the afl from Victoria. It shows how nsw centric (despite being a sport imported from England) this competition is and this is reflective in the bears and now albo's jets being on the cusp of re- entry.

I also know pvl lives in North Sydney somewhere coz my mate sees him dropping off his kids at school there, so he clearly sees it as a way to endear himself to his own area. Funnily enough, his kids school team just won the nsw private schools AFL premiership this year and rugby league isn't even played at the school.

The Raiders were the first team from outside of Sydney to win the NSWRL in 89, closely followed by the Broncos in 92, and the old boys in Sydney never forgave them for it.

When they let teams from outside of Sydney into the comp they did it expecting them to be uncompetitive novelty acts that would bring in money without being threatening, but then the Broncos and Raiders quickly became two of the strongest clubs in the league.

I'll spare you the history lesson, but the reaction in Sydney to the Raiders and Broncos being not only successful, but dominant, is one of the major stepping stones that lead to the Super League War.

 

[Seedsfan]

The Perth NRL side is just a push from a very vocal minority and their vocally arseholes. not just passionate, but total hip shooters who peg their cause from absolute nonsense.

Perth's rugby demographic is in union from all the South Africans. Kiwis as well support union. New Zealand Warriors have become massive over there only because of some really good marketing: affordable tickets for a good night out and the 'Wahs' thing was well done, as cringey as it might be.

I grew up in WA and even in 'rugby' areas, those rugby clubs were union ones. I've literally never come across a rugby league club.

People like to think it's some sort of sleeping giant but it really isn't. Melbourne's a city of over four million people and the Melbourne Storm barely permeate the popular consciousness.

Perth is even more of a strict 'footy in winter, cricket in summer' city than Melbourne. most people are fiercely attached to the West Coast Eagles. it's like an extension of their identity.

I mean ffs Perth's full of English expats and even with no other major weekly sports, the Glory have been averaging about 7,000 for the last decade. and they have a 30 year, established name and colours and even if people just see them as 'being shit for ages,' they still can't pull a massive crowd.

If the Force playing union failed, I cannot see league succeeding. it'll die on its arse.

Same as Melbourne but the Storm won the battle for the hearts and minds.

 

[RedV3x]

Same as Melbourne but the Storm won the battle for the hearts and minds.

What, both of them ?

 

[Seedsfan]

What, both of them ?

League was non existent as a participation sport up until 5 years back. Playing rugby as a kid everyone played union and went for the storm

 

[Bjo187]

League was non existent as a participation sport up until 5 years back. Playing rugby as a kid everyone played union and went for the storm

Oh I thought you meant the storm won the hearts and minds of the general populace in Melbourne. They'd be the 11th or 12th biggest sporting club in Victoria. Their crowds, memberships and even Google trends data backs this up.

On the other hand the swans are the biggest club in nsw in all the metrics above.

It's therefore astounding the great media treatment the storm get in Melbourne, compared to the swans in Sydney.

I do agree rugby union is non existent, but I'd say it's like that everywhere these days. I've never seen a rugby league club in Melbourne either though.

 

[Seedsfan]

Oh I thought you meant the storm won the hearts and minds of the general populace in Melbourne. They'd be the 11th or 12th biggest sporting club in Victoria. Their crowds, tv viewers, memberships and even Google trends data backs this up.

On the other hand the swans are the biggest club in nsw in all the metrics above.

It's therefore astounding the great media treatment the storm get in Melbourne, compared to the swans in Sydney.

I do agree rugby union is non existent, but I'd say it's like that everywhere these days. I've never seen a rugby league club in Melbourne either though.

They just won the hearts and mind of the rugby community. South Africans, Brits and Kiwis

 

[RedV3x]

League was non existent as a participation sport up until 5 years back. Playing rugby as a kid everyone played union and went for the storm

You might want to adjust your hyperbole if you want any credibility.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

You might want to adjust your hyperbole if you want any credibility.

It is a bit hyperbolic but it's probably not far from the thruth.

Union's participation rate in Melbourne/Victoria was and is remains higher than League, even if Storm have always been the biggest Rugby club in town.

About 15 private schools run union teams in Melbourne, 0 run league teams.
About 5 or 6 sports academies or public schools in certain suburbs would consistently run league teams in public school sports competitions (it fluctuates), plus a couple more random state schools in a random year. Essentially an identical number of state schools would also field Union teams in the similar state schools pathways.

Throw in the actual junior club teams themselves (obviously crossover of invidiuals in both schools and both codes) and you have about 35-40 Union junior teams and about 15-20 League junior teams in Victoria.

Of course for both sports this is nothing compared to Aussie rules in either Sydney or SEQ, with as the posts pointed above, across academies, junior teams, school sports, would be touching 75+ teams or whatever individually in both regions.

 

[Canberra Pear]

There's a whole thread on the main board, but North are apparently looking at selling games to Optus Stadium.

Two big points we hear in favour of WA3 are less travel for Perth teams, and increased supply of games.

If they eventually end up playing West Coast and Freo each year, that ticks off both boxes. One less travelling game for both, and 120k extra seats every season.

 

[JPetro83]

Good luck on player retention if the 20th side is in the NT.. No SA, VIC, WA lad will stay past their first contract. The 20th team needs to come from WA or SA. Still, 20 teams is too many! 16 teams was perfect. If the AFL had their time again in the summer of 1989/90 they would have merged 4 VIC clubs in to 2! Still too many Vic clubs.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

There's a whole thread on the main board, but North are apparently looking at selling games to Optus Stadium.

Two big points we hear in favour of WA3 are less travel for Perth teams, and increased supply of games.

If they eventually end up playing West Coast and Freo each year, that ticks off both boxes. One less travelling game for both, and 120k extra seats every season.

Didn't they ban the practice of Victorian clubs selling home matches (until now it seems) after Melbourne did it in the early 2000s to play at the GABBA against Brisbane ironically and were afraid it would create an unfair advantage if the big Victoria clubs chimed in with the scheme?

As much as it would help WA with those two points mentioned in your post, the AFL really has missed a trick by not setting up a joint-venture between North Melbourne + Northern Territory and rebranding them as the "Northern Kangaroos" but if it was the club's decision at the end of the day, it would far more feasible to play in WA over NT.

For anyone who hasn't come across my proposal of the Northern Kangaroos though as I don't believe the Northern Territory will ever be suitable for an FT club or until our lifetime:

Initially, the club would play 9 home matches in Melbourne, 2 in Darwin and 1 in Alice Springs (give or take). However, once the territory has the appropriate population, funding and resources intact to support a club better, more home matches would be played in Darwin & Alice Springs at the expense of Victoria. This proposal would not only keep the Victorian support and members associated with their team but also provide a brand new audience and support in the Northern Territory as well as improve player and coach participation and pathways up there.

In saying all that though, if North Melbourne do play home matches in WA starting from next year onwards, this would definitely give Canberra / ACT region the best opportunity it'll ever get in becoming the 20th license especially given Labour being re-elected again in the territory resulting in the Manuka Oval redevelopment to go ahead and BBL / WBBL team coming soon as a result.

 

[Aussie in exile]

It is a bit hyperbolic but it's probably not far from the thruth.

Union's participation rate in Melbourne/Victoria was and is remains higher than League, even if Storm have always been the biggest Rugby club in town.

About 15 private schools run union teams in Melbourne, 0 run league teams.
About 5 or 6 sports academies or public schools in certain suburbs would consistently run league teams in public school sports competitions (it fluctuates), plus a couple more random state schools in a random year. Essentially an identical number of state schools would also field Union teams in the similar state schools pathways.

Throw in the actual junior club teams themselves (obviously crossover of invidiuals in both schools and both codes) and you have about 35-40 Union junior teams and about 15-20 League junior teams in Victoria.

Of course for both sports this is nothing compared to Aussie rules in either Sydney or SEQ, with as the posts pointed above, across academies, junior teams, school sports, would be touching 75+ teams or whatever individually in both regions.

With the Rebels going to the wall some union juniors will go to Rugby League as they would see that as their pathway in Melbourne

 

[Canberra Pear]

Didn't they ban the practice of Victorian clubs selling home matches (until now it seems) after Melbourne did it in the early 2000s to play at the GABBA against Brisbane ironically and were afraid it would create an unfair advantage if the big Victoria clubs chimed in with the scheme?

Not too sure, but the comments suggest North have been trying for a few years.

It's not unprecedented in recent years. Extenuating circumstance, but the Suns hosted a game against Freo at Optus in 2018.

With the increased focus on travel, and the Adelaide teams getting an extra game from Gather Round, it could've caused the AFL to change their tune.

As much as it would help WA with those two points mentioned in your post, the AFL really has missed a trick by not setting up a joint-venture between North Melbourne + Northern Territory and rebranding them as the "Northern Kangaroos" but if it was the club's decision at the end of the day, it would far more feasible to play in WA over NT.

For anyone who hasn't come across my proposal of the Northern Kangaroos though as I don't believe the Northern Territory will ever be suitable for an FT club or until our lifetime:

Initially, the club would play 9 home matches in Melbourne, 2 in Darwin and 1 in Alice Springs (give or take). However, once the territory has the appropriate population, funding and resources intact to support a club better, more home matches would be played in Darwin & Alice Springs at the expense of Victoria. This proposal would not only keep the Victorian support and members associated with their team but also provide a brand new audience and support in the Northern Territory as well as improve player and coach participation and pathways up there.

I agree that I think the NT would also make a good part-time partner. Would allow the Suns to focus on the Gold Coast, too.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Good luck on player retention if the 20th side is in the NT.. No SA, VIC, WA lad will stay past their first contract. The 20th team needs to come from WA or SA. Still, 20 teams is too many! 16 teams was perfect. If the AFL had their time again in the summer of 1989/90 they would have merged 4 VIC clubs in to 2! Still too many Vic clubs.

Still can't believe people are putting a third SA team above Canberra for Team 20.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Still can't believe people are putting a third SA team above Canberra for Team 20.

GWS playing games in Canberra is a big obsticle to Canberra getting it's own team, and yes i know the deal is meant to end in 2034 i think I have a feeling it will be renewed again and if it is they will kill any hopes of Canberra getting their own team.