#21 - Braydon Preuss - Dropping bombs from outside 50 cause that's what ruckmen do

[saj_21]

I don't reckon Jackson really has a role in the team right now either honestly. Good to give him some experience tho. By no means best 22 yet imo. Ideally we get TMac back in to pinch hit in the ruck and use him as the forward lead up target keeping Weid deep forward.

Still doesn’t address what if Gawn gets injured what and who the club should select.

It Gawn wasn’t available I still don’t think Preuss is selected but recruiting him hasn’t been a massive blunder

 

[saj_21]

No hindsight needed, it’s not even that hard to understand, don’t sign back ups and fringe players to multi year deals they aren’t worth and most certainly haven’t earned, no other club does it why the fu** does ours.

You would be the first person to complain if Gawn went down and we had no back up.

This debate is complete hindsight call

We traded surplus to get him in, $400k isn’t a lot of money in the afl. What have we missed by having him on the list

 

[saj_21]

I felt you should've went after Hayden Young or does the club see Jackson as Gawn or Hogan's successor?

Honestly don’t know, but Jackson will play a variety of roles before he settles as a ruck, IMO. Gawn should have another 4/5 years in him. But may only 2-3 peak years left in him

 

[Demon bhoy]

You would be the first person to complain if Gawn went down and we had no back up.

This debate is complete hindsight call

We traded surplus to get him in, $400k isn’t a lot of money in the afl. What have we missed by having him on the list

Trying to put words in my mouth and making unsupported statements doesn’t change the fact it was another horrible list management decision, the bloke at Carlton spent 6 odd years on Hawthorns list and played maybe 5 games and I’d be amazed if he’s on a 4 year deal at 400k but looks an infinitely better player than Pruess.

What we have missed is any opportunity to up grade the position at a reduced cost by locking in a back up for 4 years that nobody should want to see play

 

[Topkent]

You would be the first person to complain if Gawn went down and we had no back up.

This debate is complete hindsight call

We traded surplus to get him in, $400k isn’t a lot of money in the afl. What have we missed by having him on the list

No doubt
'Disastrous list management, how come no other club only has a single ruck!!'

 

[Demon bhoy]

No doubt
'Disastrous list management, how come no other club only has a single ruck!!'

The point being made isn’t the club doesn’t need a back up ruck that’s never been said, shit Gawn was a back up, the point is the club shouldn’t be handing out 4 year contracts to them based on need alone, he he has earned it don’t pay it. If Pruess was on 2 years and 250k like he should be I wouldn’t have a problem.

Back up rucks are a dime a dozen, as I said Carlton got one as a throw away and that was after he dominated at VFL level, he’s also younger and a better player. To my knowledge no other club gives back ups 4 years we probably shouldn’t either.

 

[saj_21]

The point being made isn’t the club doesn’t need a back up ruck that’s never been said, sh*t Gawn was a back up, the point is the club shouldn’t be handing out 4 year contracts to them based on need alone, he he has earned it don’t pay it. If Pruess was on 2 years and 250k like he should be I wouldn’t have a problem.

Back up rucks are a dime a dozen, as I said Carlton got one as a throw away and that was after he dominated at VFL level, he’s also younger and a better player. To my knowledge no other club gives back ups 4 years we probably shouldn’t either.

So we still have to pay $250k a year for a back up ruck

So we are paying an extra $150k to develop someone we want

We aren’t missing on any better options atm

We also haven’t lost anyone to a salary cap squeeze so money isn’t a worry

 

[Demon bhoy]

So we still have to pay $250k a year for a back up ruck

So we are paying an extra $150k to develop someone we want

We aren’t missing on any better options atm

We also haven’t lost anyone to a salary cap squeeze so money isn’t a worry

That we know of, It’s a hard cap league every dollar counts, 150 here 400 plus on KK, AVB on 3 and can’t get on the field, over paying guy who aren’t stars, happy to be proven wrong but I’m sure our club is hard up against the cap and finished 17th last year, that’s what happens when you continue to make bad decisions, Pruess in isolation you can wear but name one completely successful trade we have made in the last 5 years, at best we have done just ok, and these things as a whole, bad trading shit drafting lead to 1 finals appearance in 15 years.

 

[blitznu]

you campaigners arguing over paying an average player the average AFL wage? **** me go figure. bit like me paying shitloads for insurances at work that I've never claimed on but maybe 1 day ill need the campaigner. Or like keeping that ugly birds number just in case you are going through a dry spell you hope like **** you dont need to use it but its there just in case. That's what Preuss is to us hows that even an argument??

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Clubs were offering Sam Draper $1.7M over four years and he hasn’t even played a game yet. Get ruck talent in and worry later seems to be the philosophy. It’s only a handful of spots on the list compared to what you’re paying for every other line, so you spending an extra $100-200k over the standard ‘advanced rookie’ wage isn’t that big of a deal to get someone you have more faith in. If we were spending $400k on a seventh or eight mid or forward it’d be weird, but a second ruck is eh. Like I said we’d have lost to Carlton last year without him, so evidently can be the difference between winning or losing games if your #1 goes down. A better second (or third) ruck and we’d have made finals in 2017. Happy for the club to do the budgeting and go for the man they want.

 

[saj_21]

That we know of, It’s a hard cap league every dollar counts, 150 here 400 plus on KK, AVB on 3 and can’t get on the field, over paying guy who aren’t stars, happy to be proven wrong but I’m sure our club is hard up against the cap and finished 17th last year, that’s what happens when you continue to make bad decisions, Pruess in isolation you can wear but name one completely successful trade we have made in the last 5 years, at best we have done just ok, and these things as a whole, bad trading sh*t drafting lead to 1 finals appearance in 15 years.

id say Melksham and Hibberd where successful trades.

The lever trade will also prove to be a Winner. May has played some really consistent footy this season as well

even if our trading has been pour, which I don’t agree with we shouldn’t just stop because it appears as though we aren’t good at it.

I’d rather have a go at becoming better and bring In the likes of May, Lever etc than be like freo and north who miss everyone and then literally bring ok fringe players for massive money so they can appear as though they have landed a big fish.

 

[00Stinger]

Wouldn't mind some more midfield depth. Somebody like Dom Tyson could be good.

**** hasn't he disappeared



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[00Stinger]

I think Pruess is better than a lot of people think, but that doesn't matter if he can't get a game coz we have no role for him.

Yep would get a game at quite a few clubs or at least be a rotation type player

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[pjfairbairn]

fu** hasn't he disappeared



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Was reading an article about North Melbourne can have a complete list overhaul - but that he is still contracted for 2021!

 

[pjfairbairn]

My issue with Preuss isn't the salary, it's the four year deal and the fact that he is a completely different style of ruckman to Max. If Max was injured and he had to come in, he might be able to rest up forward and snare a couple of snags, but he isn't capable of going behind the ball and having an impact IMO, and he certainly hasn't appeared capable of running with other elite ruckmen. Grundy would have a field day against him around the ground. Clearly the plan was for them both to play more often than not, but the game keeps evolving and for the same reasons that somebody like Mason Cox can't get a game, neither can he. He will only play, for almost any team in the comp, as their number one ruck.

Anyway - back to my original point when I bumped this thread. All the people advocating for why you need him makes me think that we could probably still get a third rounder for him, or a speculative needs-based player in return. Hearing some whispers that Bradtke is actually developing really well and the Club are happy with him, so I think Preuss will definitely be shopped around.

 

[saj_21]

My issue with Preuss isn't the salary, it's the four year deal and the fact that he is a completely different style of ruckman to Max. If Max was injured and he had to come in, he might be able to rest up forward and snare a couple of snags, but he isn't capable of going behind the ball and having an impact IMO, and he certainly hasn't appeared capable of running with other elite ruckmen. Grundy would have a field day against him around the ground. Clearly the plan was for them both to play more often than not, but the game keeps evolving and for the same reasons that somebody like Mason Cox can't get a game, neither can he. He will only play, for almost any team in the comp, as their number one ruck.

Anyway - back to my original point when I bumped this thread. All the people advocating for why you need him makes me think that we could probably still get a third rounder for him, or a speculative needs-based player in return. Hearing some whispers that Bradtke is actually developing really well and the Club are happy with him, so I think Preuss will definitely be shopped around.

That is why he is a back up, no one is suggesting he can play anywhere near gawns level or expect the same output, he is very much break glass in case of emergency.

No one seems to have answered what we are missing by having pruess on our list? Sure we’d trade him for at best third rounder, and with this years compromised draft a pick in the 50s so we can land another jack Fitzpatrick or billy stretch. Yeah that makes sense.

Gawn gets injured in 2021 and we can play our winger or CHF in the ruck.

now that is stupid list management

 

[Demon bhoy]

id say Melksham and Hibberd where successful trades.

The lever trade will also prove to be a Winner. May has played some really consistent footy this season as well

even if our trading has been pour, which I don’t agree with we shouldn’t just stop because it appears as though we aren’t good at it.

I’d rather have a go at becoming better and bring In the likes of May, Lever etc than be like freo and north who miss everyone and then literally bring ok fringe players for massive money so they can appear as though they have landed a big fish.

You have a much lower bar for what constitutes success than me, Hibberd had one great year and melksham was good not great for a year or so, neither have had a kick in the last 2 years to the point where they were dropped or should have been.

I have no problem with bringing players in weather it be May, Lever or Pruess or taking a chance on someone like KK, but at the right price all those blokes are massively over paid for what they contribute and in a hard cap league that has massive ramifications. I’m in no way suggesting we don’t bring players in that’s trying to put words in my mouth again, but if the best we can hope for from blokes we recruit from other clubs and are paying like stars is some good consistent footy the clubs going to stay exactly where they have been the last 15 years.

 

[Topkent]

Melksham and Vince were successful
So was garlett
We did a little trade to pick up a bloke called Oliver

 

[dazzledavey36]

That is why he is a back up, no one is suggesting he can play anywhere near gawns level or expect the same output, he is very much break glass in case of emergency.

No one seems to have answered what we are missing by having pruess on our list? Sure we’d trade him for at best third rounder, and with this years compromised draft a pick in the 50s so we can land another jack Fitzpatrick or billy stretch. Yeah that makes sense.

Gawn gets injured in 2021 and we can play our winger or CHF in the ruck.

now that is stupid list management

Having Pruess on our list is smart list management. The club went after Pruess on the back of Gawn being physically bullied by Lycett in the Prelim final and also just having there as an insurance. It was then they realised Gawn needed a decent chop out. The one game that Gawn missed last year was against Carlton, and Pruess came in and gave Kruezer a lesson. It was a small glimpse of what he's capable off.

While he's body has been quite sound, it only takes for him to rip his hammy off his bone or hurt his knee like he did in the pre season, then that's where all of a sudden Pruess becomes the main man and we've already covered him off. Sure he might not be up to the same standard as Gawn, but barely any ruckman in the AFL are.

What Pruess does provide thats different to Gawn is physicality. I see him in the same vein as a Shame Mumford for instance.

Just on Pruess, over the pre season the guy stripped off 8 kilos so that he could cover the ground more. Apparently this was off the back of strong advice off Gawn and reports were of him really burning up the training track before he too went got injured right before the season started.

While I would be super disappointed if Gawn had to miss a couple of weeks through injury, i also would be at ease knowing that Pruess would come in and fill the role just as fine.

 

[saj_21]

You have a much lower bar for what constitutes success than me, Hibberd had one great year and melksham was good not great for a year or so, neither have had a kick in the last 2 years to the point where they were dropped or should have been.

I have no problem with bringing players in weather it be May, Lever or Pruess or taking a chance on someone like KK, but at the right price all those blokes are massively over paid for what they contribute and in a hard cap league that has massive ramifications. I’m in no way suggesting we don’t bring players in that’s trying to put words in my mouth again, but if the best we can hope for from blokes we recruit from other clubs and are paying like stars is some good consistent footy the clubs going to stay exactly where they have been the last 15 years.

Hibberd AA in 17, good in 18, rubbish 19.

melks missed a year in 16. From mid 17 to 18, he was very good and one of the best kicks going inside 50. 19 was write after he injured his foot. This year he is struggling.

Get over the hard cap, we haven’t lost anyone due to salary cap squeeze so the club has managed its finances well. All players are “overpaid” you have to pay 95% of the salary cap. So unless you lose players because of a squeeze money isn’t an issue.

I’d say our 15 years of rubbish was on the back of extremely poor leadership from the club heirachy encourage a losing mentality and poor development/along with poor recruiting.

paying a tall back up $150 extra is the Least of problems.

Vince garlett Cross lever May melks hibbered all improved our club

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

That is why he is a back up, no one is suggesting he can play anywhere near gawns level or expect the same output, he is very much break glass in case of emergency.

No one seems to have answered what we are missing by having pruess on our list? Sure we’d trade him for at best third rounder, and with this years compromised draft a pick in the 50s so we can land another jack Fitzpatrick or billy stretch. Yeah that makes sense.

Gawn gets injured in 2021 and we can play our winger or CHF in the ruck.

now that is stupid list management

What are we missing? it's pretty simplistic to just say he's being paid only 150k more than a league minimum. What happens if that 150k more is able to be offered to a big name, and turns out to be the decider and is the difference between a player coming to our club or going somewhere else instead.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

you campaigners arguing over paying an average player the average AFL wage? fu** me go figure. bit like me paying shitloads for insurances at work that I've never claimed on but maybe 1 day ill need the campaigner. Or like keeping that ugly birds number just in case you are going through a dry spell you hope like fu** you dont need to use it but its there just in case. That's what Preuss is to us hows that even an argument??

do you take out the dearest insurance policy you can find for work or do you take the one thats cheaper and covers the essentials?

 

[saj_21]

What are we missing? it's pretty simplistic to just say he's being paid only 150k more than a league minimum. What happens if that 150k more is able to be offered to a big name, and turns out to be the decider and is the difference between a player coming to our club or going somewhere else instead.

We have to pay someone to be a back up ruck, and IMO only paying slightly overs for Pruess. All clubs have to pay a little over to get players to their club.

it’s simplistic of me to say that he is only being overpaid, but your example is a compete hypothetical. and even we bought in May whilst having pruess on the list.

We haven’t missed or lost anyone whilst paying pruess $400k a year

youd think he would be on a lever type deal with some of the carry on

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

We have to pay someone to be a back up ruck, and IMO only paying slightly overs for Pruess. All clubs have to pay a little over to get players to their club.

it’s simplistic of me to say that he is only being overpaid, but your example is a compete hypothetical. and even we bought in May whilst having pruess on the list.

We haven’t missed or lost anyone whilst paying pruess $400k a year

youd think he would be on a lever type deal with some of the carry on

Coz you know exactly what deals have been offered and any that were knocked back. We get everyone we want.

Come on mate.

 

[Toump Ass]

I'm up for trading him but I'd expect at least 2 first round picks + a pick upgrade.
Think of all the IP he would come with working under the greatest ruckman of all time.
Longer he stays on our list the higher his price goes IMO. Regardless of whether or not he plays any games.