Player Watch #26 Riley Collier-Dawkins

[cairo tiger]

So averaging about 20 possies and 4 tackles a game for the year. This kid can make it

he should have played this year by now, sorry cant see it ......

 

[Tackle Bag]

It feels like he has had a long time to develop but Hardwick mentioned in an interview somewhere around midyear that a lot of these kids have only played 15-20 games for the club ( now a handful more) with all the ressies footy lost to covid.

I think he gets another year.

 

[Muddiemoose]

It feels like he has had a long time to develop but Hardwick mentioned in an interview somewhere around midyear that a lot of these kids have only played 15-20 games for the club ( now a handful more) with all the ressies footy lost to covid.

I think he gets another year.

He was also sold as being a long term prospect from day one so that alone combined with the other covid related factors says to me he is worth a punt for one more year at the very least

With other retirements and delistings I think we will have ample list spots for any other moves we want to make/kids we want to draft

Worst case we have some mature depth in the midfield

 

[Profop]

he should have played this year by now, sorry cant see it ......

He has played two games earlier in the year (and was pretty decent against the Eagles) but I get your point

 

[beema limapep]

I'd like to give him another year.

 

[Vassp]

he needs another year, surely with the outs there is a spot for him.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Martyn's shown a hell of a lot more than RCD imo. Won our VFL B&F last year as a mid.

Not at AFL level he hasn't

Martyn is a VFL player and his lack of pace is his biggest issue , He accumulates at VFL but has shown nothing when played seniors
RCD has had glimpses and has speed height and agility. Just cant play outside and confidence. does he make it id say 30%

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Not at AFL level he hasn't

Martyn is a VFL player and his lack of pace is his biggest issue , He accumulates at VFL but has shown nothing when played seniors
RCD has had glimpses and has speed height and agility. Just cant play outside and confidence. does he make it id say 30%

They're both VFL players and nothing more. My point is Martyn is a better midfielder than Riley, yet people want to persist with Riley because he's a "big bodied mid" and we took him at 20. Martyn gets thrown into a foreign position (and actually plays pretty well there) and no one's arguing his case.
He's clearly not going to be an A grader, Riley. He just hasn't got the game. So do we invest a 5th year into someone with the lofty ceiling of B grade depth?
Maybe I'm coming off a bit harsh here but I'm just calling a spade a spade as I see it.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

They're both VFL players and nothing more. My point is Martyn is a better midfielder than Riley, yet people want to persist with Riley because he's a "big bodied mid" and we took him at 20. Martyn gets thrown into a foreign position (and actually plays pretty well there) and no one's arguing his case.
He's clearly not going to be an A grader, Riley. He just hasn't got the game. So do we invest a 5th year into someone with the lofty ceiling of B grade depth?
Maybe I'm coming off a bit harsh here but I'm just calling a spade a spade as I see it.

Agree to disagree

Richmonds VFL team is not jam packed with quality mids yet Martyn has been moved to HB

 

[Grrr]

With Riley I'm not sure what else he can do to improve. I think this is as good as he can be. He has improved his size and endurance. He has tried to work on his running pattern so he can increase his possession count. He has tried to improve his marking and goal kicking to become multi-dimensional....

...but nothing has really worked.

I think he's improved as a player. He is a better inside ball winner than he was. The problem with RCD is that he hasn't learned to be anything else. As a midfield in our side, you need to be able to be an inside and outside player. Offensive and defensive. A ground ball winner and marking option.

I hope he can improve and broaden his skill base but with players like Sonsie already skipping past him, I think he might struggle.

He has improved, just not as quickly as anticipated. The knock has been he can't find it, well he can now. He had 24 contested possessions on the weekend and 12 clearances. 9 games over 24 possessions, 3 x over 30 are good numbers. Granted a couple of them were against very average opposition but still good numbers.

He uses the ball by foot and hand well, so that is a good attribute. The penny seems to have dropped a bit and playing with more attack at the contest and man for 4 quarters.

I'd give another year and see how he goes. Sonsie may have passed him, but they are different players and if Cotchin or Prestia is out next year for any length of time we have only Dow and Ross as backups, so why not keep RCD on for another year to see how he goes. Depth is pretty important when you are phasing into a new younger side.

 

[_RT_]

I really want Riley to take the next steps with us, but don't get excited over his performance on the weekend. Unfortunately The bullants aren't even VFL standard with just the one win. Take a look below at his season stats, I highlighted the games against top 8 sides:

View attachment 1470882

That includes both the 2021 season and this seasons stats.

 

[_RT_]

Not at AFL level he hasn't

Martyn is a VFL player and his lack of pace is his biggest issue , He accumulates at VFL but has shown nothing when played seniors
RCD has had glimpses and has speed height and agility. Just cant play outside and confidence. does he make it id say 30%

Fair effort to write off Martyn at senior level when he has played just 2 games with his debut against Port in Adelaide when they were actually a good side and a game in R23 last year against Hawthorn where it was basically our VFL midfielders who hadn't played a game for weeks thrown in against the Hawthorn midfield featuring all their AFL midfielders.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Setting him up for failure

His biggest issue is getting outside ball

 

[Morro]

With Riley I'm not sure what else he can do to improve. I think this is as good as he can be. He has improved his size and endurance. He has tried to work on his running pattern so he can increase his possession count. He has tried to improve his marking and goal kicking to become multi-dimensional....

...but nothing has really worked.

I think he's improved as a player. He is a better inside ball winner than he was. The problem with RCD is that he hasn't learned to be anything else. As a midfield in our side, you need to be able to be an inside and outside player. Offensive and defensive. A ground ball winner and marking option.

I hope he can improve and broaden his skill base but with players like Sonsie already skipping past him, I think he might struggle.

Him making it literally change our list profile significantly, it just seems like such a long shot now

100% gets another year though. People wanted Ross delisted only a month or 2 ago.

 

[Mr Magic]

probably needs to string a few of these together before he can be considered. Can't see him getting a game at all in 2022, massive let down for him

He has improved, just not as quickly as anticipated. The knock has been he can't find it, well he can now. He had 24 contested possessions on the weekend and 12 clearances. 9 games over 24 possessions, 3 x over 30 are good numbers. Granted a couple of them were against very average opposition but still good numbers.

He uses the ball by foot and hand well, so that is a good attribute. The penny seems to have dropped a bit and playing with more attack at the contest and man for 4 quarters.

I'd give another year and see how he goes. Sonsie may have passed him, but they are different players and if Cotchin or Prestia is out next year for any length of time we have only Dow and Ross as backups, so why not keep RCD on for another year to see how he goes. Depth is pretty important when you are phasing into a new younger side.

Have to remember he is 191 cm if not 193. That usually means it takes a little longer.

I would not read to much into Bontempelli, he is a freak

I think RCD is starting to get it a little with more experience. I think playing him in teh guts in the 2's helps him from a experience perspective understanding his craft, what he can and can't do. I think he is more than an inside mid. He may well play elsewhere, but I think his development is about figuring himself out and the opposition, what works what does not etc.. especially as his body gets stronger and when he gets more miles in his legs it should make a big difference to

 

[Mr Magic]

Not at AFL level he hasn't

Martyn is a VFL player and his lack of pace is his biggest issue , He accumulates at VFL but has shown nothing when played seniors
RCD has had glimpses and has speed height and agility. Just cant play outside and confidence. does he make it id say 30%

Agree, Martyn is slow and does not have the tricks of a Sam Mitchell or even Tom Mitchell.

He does not have enough X-factor to compete in the higher levels. Cumberland is a different story which is why one makes it and the other highly unlikely. The disposal of Martyn is not great either at times so there is too much against him to make it for mine. A player like T Dow has far more chance with his speed and poise than Martyn which is why they get selected higher in the draft.

A player does not have to have oodles of X-factor. But the player needs traits to compete effectively. Even a guy like A Brayshaw and even his older brother not have acute X-factor but they are aggressive, run hard, good kicks etc.. and do enough well consistently including moving well to be effective

 

[SleepingGiant]

When raised by RCD he would also take a bit longer to get that mongrel aggression into him needed for the inside role. I remember his game against the dogs earlier in the year and he was strong then so he gets another year. Next year we need to really expose our underbelly mids and play them for a big 6-7 game block to see what they are made of. We can't just keep all mids in the VFL without allowing them exposure where they don't get dropped after 1-2 weeks. Gibcus gets the benefit of the doubt and so should the others. I remember Shane Edwards

10

Shane Edwards

Age

36

Ht

182cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

9.1

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.6

1star

T

3.0

4star

CL

4.2

5star

D

8.6

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.2

3star

getting games regardless of his poor earlier form to find his confidence at senior level which helped him a lot. Seems like for some players we have forgotten that one and it's because we have been in contention for a while.

 

[Mr Magic]

When raised by RCD he would also take a bit longer to get that mongrel aggression into him needed for the inside role. I remember his game against the dogs earlier in the year and he was strong then so he gets another year. Next year we need to really expose our underbelly mids and play them for a big 6-7 game block to see what they are made of. We can't just keep all mids in the VFL without allowing them exposure where they don't get dropped after 1-2 weeks. Gibcus gets the benefit of the doubt and so should the others. I remember Shane Edwards getting games regardless of his poor earlier form to find his confidence at senior level which helped him a lot. Seems like for some players we have forgotten that one and it's because we have been in contention for a while.

I think we will play a better standard in the twos next year allowing for more development. Aarts and Martyn will be moved on probably and guys like Banks and Brown should kick on amongst others like Gibcus so the connection and development should improve

 

[Muddiemoose]

I think we will play a better standard in the twos next year allowing for more development. Aarts and Martyn will be moved on probably and guys like Banks and Brown should kick on amongst others like Gibcus so the connection and development should improve

That is one aspect of his development I have noticed really step up this year and that is leadership
During games he’s telling others where to stand, telling rucks where he wants the taps

The type of thing that is very pleasing to see imo

 

[Marcel Proust]

I reckon Lambo and Edwards retirements save him, would have been in the gun otherwise

How many first round-picked mids from 2018 are yet to infuence at senior level,but still listed come 2023?

How many are in a team that won two flags

 

[_RT_]

Everyone has been crying out that we need a big bodied midfielder and here we have a big bodied midfielder that has had his issues since arriving in terms of development, but he has shown over the second half of the VFL season that he is understanding how to have an impact across 4 quarters whether it's from an offensive or defensive aspect. I'd be okay with the powers that be giving him an extension and hopefully he can take the next step and become a regular in the senior side, because there is an opening there if he wants it back enough.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Everyone has been crying out that we need a big bodied midfielder and here we have a big bodied midfielder that has had his issues since arriving in terms of development, but he has shown over the second half of the VFL season that he is understanding how to have an impact across 4 quarters whether it's from an offensive or defensive aspect. I'd be okay with the powers that be giving him an extension and hopefully he can take the next step and become a regular in the senior side, because there is an opening there if he wants it back enough.

He played against the Northern bullants- look at the quality of opponents. Nice stats but against a divi 2 team.

He doesn't deserve another contract

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

Him making it literally change our list profile significantly, it just seems like such a long shot now

100% gets another year though. People wanted Ross delisted only a month or 2 ago.

Sooner or later football supporters will realise how hard it is to be a coalface midfielder. The equivalent of being a key tall where you go from a big kid to being a small man with opponents twice as strong as you. It takes time and a number of preseasons in the gym putting on size while also having to increase the tank.

 

[Wooden Robot]

He has improved, just not as quickly as anticipated. The knock has been he can't find it, well he can now. He had 24 contested possessions on the weekend and 12 clearances. 9 games over 24 possessions, 3 x over 30 are good numbers. Granted a couple of them were against very average opposition but still good numbers.


Have to remember he is 191 cm if not 193. That usually means it takes a little longer.

I would not read to much into Bontempelli, he is a freak

I think RCD is starting to get it a little with more experience. I think playing him in teh guts in the 2's helps him from a experience perspective understanding his craft, what he can and can't do. I think he is more than an inside mid. He may well play elsewhere, but I think his development is about figuring himself out and the opposition, what works what does not etc.. especially as his body gets stronger and when he gets more miles in his legs it should make a big difference to

Except you have to mention Bont ... as he is the underlying reason why we took RCD.
Big midfielders were in vogue and we thought we were getting ours.

 

[_RT_]

He played against the Northern bullants- look at the quality of opponents. Nice stats but against a divi 2 team.

He doesn't deserve another contract

You can only perform against who is in front of you. If Riley stunk it up and got 15 disposals people would he all over him failing yet again, but when he does out and dominates like an AFL listed player should do against a VFL side, it gets passed off as oh he just did it against a VFL side.

For the record I'm not basing my opinion off what he did against the Bullants, I pretty much wrote him off mid year because he wasn't quite delivering on what I wanted to see, but since the mid year bye he has gone to a different level IMO. As I said he has started to do things that you want to see from a young midfielder starting to take charge of how the midfield sets up. It's amazing what happens when a kid who basically hadn't played for 2 years finally gets consistency in terms of playing week to week games.