Player Watch #38 Noah Cumberland

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Meteoric Rise said:
Graham has played in 2 Grand Finals, he was our 3rd highest rated player in one and 10th highest rated player in the other.
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Let’s pull Bartlett out of retirement as he played in five premierships and was BOG in the 80 GF using your logic. Graham’s last four seasons have been suburban football level, but hey he covers millions of kilometres chasing.
 
Look if he gets the arse so be it, not gonna jump up & down- but I know one thing - the H&A season is 23 games long now, same as Cumbo's career so far and given our scoring of the last few years I'll take a small/medium forward who can kick 33 in 23 every day of the week at this point, even with the abyssal gaps in between....
 
TigerImposter said:
Let’s pull Bartlett out of retirement as he played in five premierships and was BOG in the 80 GF using your logic. Graham’s last four seasons have been suburban football level, but hey he covers millions of kilometres chasing.
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Yep he's a GPS champion and frankly if we're gonna give unlimited credits for the first five -albeit very important- games of bloke's career from 7 years ago we can at least spare a few for a bloke's first five from 2 years ago and if not then at least be consistent and ask "but what have you done for me lately?" of both players...
 
TigerImposter said:
Let’s pull Bartlett out of retirement as he played in five premierships and was BOG in the 80 GF using your logic. Graham’s last four seasons have been suburban football level, but hey he covers millions of kilometres chasing.
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Lol you are struggling.

2021 Jack Graham runner-up Jack Dyer Medal is suburban football level according to you.

2023 Jack Graham was the 206th rated player in the AFL to play over 10 games. Which places him inside the top 12 most valuable players at an average club.

Not bad for a suburban level footballer.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Lol you are struggling.

2021 Jack Graham runner-up Jack Dyer Medal is suburban football level according to you.

2023 Jack Graham was the 206th rated player in the AFL to play over 10 games. Which places him inside the top 12 most valuable players at an average club.

Not bad for a suburban level footballer.
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2021 what was his AFL rating as I’m not interested in the JD medal as you basically get votes for turning up and some stars were injured or rested so you’re comparing him to teammates and not the competition. We didn’t make the eight that year so again it explains if your stars are down or injured a plodder like Graham isn’t going to get the job done.
2022 ?
2023 lol as he played ten games and he wasn’t inside the 12th most valuable player at our club as that’s nonsense as we had guns injured all year. If you rate his 23rd season then you need to get your eyes checked.
2024? He a month or so ago was in the bottom 10% on AFL ratings according to a poster.

Stats are dangerous as they often can be manipulated to not tell the true picture as they give you rating points for basically farting.
Again you used past history in your initial claims over current history and based on two games.
Absolute nonsense and amateurish use of statistics.

Also I hope a poster can come on here and check your stats as you’ve been found out a few times for presenting inaccurate statistics to suit your agenda.
 
TigerImposter said:
2021 what was his AFL rating as I’m not interested in the JD medal as you basically get votes for turning up and some stars were injured or rested so you’re comparing him to teammates and not the competition. We didn’t make the eight that year so again it explains if your stars are down or injured a plodder like Graham isn’t going to get the job done.
2022 ?
2023 lol as he played ten games and he wasn’t inside the 12th most valuable player at our club as that’s nonsense as we had guns injured all year. If you rate his 23rd season then you need to get your eyes checked.
2024? He a month or so ago was in the bottom 10% on AFL ratings according to a poster.

Stats are dangerous as they often can be manipulated to not tell the true picture as they give you rating points for basically farting.
Again you used past history in your initial claims over current history and based on two games.
Absolute nonsense and amateurish use of statistics.

Also I hope a poster can come on here and check your stats as you’ve been found out a few times for presenting inaccurate statistics to suit your agenda.
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Lol

"Stats are dangerous" according to you.

Then you say you get ratings points for basically farting....

Player ratings stats are so dangerous you have to invent a ludicrous fault in them to criticise, because you have no genuine criticism.

The trouble with you saying I am presenting inaccurate statistics to suit my agenda is I don't have an agenda here. I am merely pointing out the blindingly obvious flaws in your statement that Jack Graham's last 4 seasons have been suburban football level.

Let's double down with another flaw in your hyperbolic statement then shall we....

Richmond results 2021- current all matches - 33w-3d-44l(43% win rate)

Richmond results WITH Jack Graham playing - 31w-3d-34l(48% win rate)

Richmond results WITHOUT Jack Graham playing - 2w-0d-10l(16% win rate)

So Richmond wins games at 3 times the rate with Graham playing compared to when he doesn't play in the last 4 years. But your eyes tell you we are better off without Graham, so that must be correct.
 
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Meteoric Rise said:
Yes sorry, I have shamed myself pointing out the damaging fact that the team won at 3 times the rate when Graham played over the last 4 seasons compared to when he did not play. Must give myself an uppercut for noticing just how ****ing stupid your statement was. What on earth was I thinking? :tearsofjoy:
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That again is an irrelevant statistic as it tells you nothing of his performance in those games so now quote the stats in comparison to his AFL ranking. Most of our senior players would have similar and some better ratings than him 😜 how pathetic.
It’s such a useless stat bc it doesn’t look at the opposition we played in his wins and the team we’ve been fielding as well as the trillion other variables and most importantly how he performed.
You have again moved your argument bc you were found out on your original post with stats.
If you think JGTI is of value to our team and then why haven’t we won 48% of our games with him over the last two years?
Surely your theory must breathe life and truth? I can use your statistics to say when JGTI plays we lose 34games. I can’t prove it that he was the main reason just like you can’t prove the opposite , but stats show when he plays we lose 34 games 😜 nonsense.
All you stats clearly show the regression of JGTI and he should be embarrassed that the RFC has offered Mansell a contract and he’s currently got nothing. Which indicates that he’s either going to be traded out or delisted as he’s of no value in taking us forward in the future. If he was a needed player surely he would’ve had something by now.
 
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sregit said:
So that’s the third coach who is to blame for his shitehouse performances?
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3 coaches and 24 career games. If his performances are always shitehouse as you say (overlooking hes averaging more goals than Bolton and a myriad of other data), I reckon coaching stability, changes in role and personell around him on the field would be a factors.

It has been for many of the players with hardly any games to their name over the similar stretch. Ask Sonsie. Ask Dow.
 
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Meteoric Rise said:
Lol

"Stats are dangerous" according to you.

Then you say you get ratings points for basically farting....

Player ratings stats are so dangerous you have to invent a ludicrous fault in them to criticise, because you have no genuine criticism.

The trouble with you saying I am presenting inaccurate statistics to suit my agenda is I don't have an agenda here. I am merely pointing out the blindingly obvious flaws in your statement that Jack Graham's last 4 seasons have been suburban football level.

Let's double down with another flaw in your hyperbolic statement then shall we....

Richmond results 2021- current all matches - 33w-3d-44l(43% win rate)

Richmond results WITH Jack Graham playing - 31w-3d-34l(48% win rate)

Richmond results WITHOUT Jack Graham playing - 2w-0d-10l(16% win rate)

So Richmond wins games at 3 times the rate with Graham playing compared to when he doesn't play in the last 4 years. But your eyes tell you we are better off without Graham, so that must be correct.
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Just watch the game instead of the stats.
Graham played okay yesterday, probably his best game of the year, which is not saying a lot but he was okay. But it wasn't so much what he did, but his opponents had a field day. Not just him, all our mids and half forwards. They streamed ahead of the ball, rebounded from half back and got the ball into space. Graham got a few in and under handballs out and used it okay, but he did very little else. He doesn't break the lines or move the ball into space and he is another slow mid. Our lack of speed around the ball is killing us.
 

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Much like a lot of the other players with under 50 games, Noah is struggling to find consistency in regards to his output and impact on games.

What makes it harder on him though is that despite playing poorly he is given a raft of excuses as to why that is happening. From his match up being wrong to he needs to be given a defined role, yet other players don't get given the same. So when criticism is levelled at Noah incomes across as people being haters, when it's really nothing more than holding him to the same standard as others are treated.
 
_RT_ said:
Much like a lot of the other players with under 50 games, Noah is struggling to find consistency in regards to his output and impact on games.

What makes it harder on him though is that despite playing poorly he is given a raft of excuses as to why that is happening. From his match up being wrong to he needs to be given a defined role, yet other players don't get given the same. So when criticism is levelled at Noah incomes across as people being haters, when it's really nothing more than holding him to the same standard as others are treated.
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He is playing in a difficult position. He is matched constantly against tall marking players who are much pretty much specialist players at intercept marking. The way the ball was pumped into our forward line made it impossible to mark the ball as a forward, just ask Lynch, Dusty or Bolton. I can't remember one ball that got kicked lace out to a forward, that is an inditement on our mids.

He had a dirty day, which he was due to have. Last week he had 5 possessions and kicked 3, that is never going to happen on a regular basis. He like all young players has to find more ways to get involved. The ball came into our forward 50m about 35 odd times for the game. Easy to pot the forwards, when none of them including our champions got much of it, much less a far less talented player like Cumberland.
 
If you watch him live, he looks even more lost. Teammates are always telling him where to go, or who to man up on.
 
Grrr said:
He is playing in a difficult position. He is matched constantly against tall marking players who are much pretty much specialist players at intercept marking. The way the ball was pumped into our forward line made it impossible to mark the ball as a forward, just ask Lynch, Dusty or Bolton. I can't remember one ball that got kicked lace out to a forward, that is an inditement on our mids.

He had a dirty day, which he was due to have. Last week he had 5 possessions and kicked 3, that is never going to happen on a regular basis. He like all young players has to find more ways to get involved. The ball came into our forward 50m about 35 odd times for the game. Easy to pot the forwards, when none of them including our champions got much of it, much less a far less talented player like Cumberland.
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The trouble with this is he is a 23yo who has entered his prime and has been at the club for 5 years now. If he is Ivan Soldo, or Samson Ryan, maybe there is a tomorrow at that point. But he is a small forward. People were queueing up to write Maurice Rioli off last year and he was playing no worse than Cumberland is now, but at 20 years of age.

Cumberland needs to be able to play his role consistently as of now. We all accept it is tough to dominate in a malfunctioning forward line in a malfunctioning team. But it is not tough to compete, not for guys at this level. He is not close to consistently competing in his role. Therefore, he will be de-selected next match, and deleted end of season.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
The trouble with this is he is a 23yo who has entered his prime and has been at the club for 5 years now. If he is Ivan Soldo, or Samson Ryan, maybe there is a tomorrow at that point. But he is a small forward. People were queueing up to write Maurice Rioli off last year and he was playing no worse than Cumberland is now, but at 20 years of age.

Cumberland needs to be able to play his role consistently as of now. We all accept it is tough to dominate in a malfunctioning forward line in a malfunctioning team. But it is not tough to compete, not for guys at this level. He is not close to consistently competing in his role. Therefore, he will be de-selected next match, and deleted end of season.
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Yes there will be players deleted at the end of the year, and he may well be one of them, but that is irrelevant to now.

I watched the game after reading the commentary, and this talk of not competing to me was just blame shifting. The ball came in just shoved onto the boot more often than not, and he was outpointed, especially early on, by experienced backman, or he wanted the ball out the back, and the kick wasn't good enough. He will have to do better than that.

He has lost a bit of confidence in the air, having been played on Ridley, Stewart and a few other much more accomplished players. Our forward line has been awful so defensive players have been having a field day.

He will either be dropped, which I think is unfair and given we have no others to take his place, or he will get another chance. Yes he is 23, but he pretty much lost two seasons to injury, so he is still learning. If he is good enough he will rebound, if not then he might well be gone.
 
Grrr said:
Just watch the game instead of the stats.
Graham played okay yesterday, probably his best game of the year, which is not saying a lot but he was okay. But it wasn't so much what he did, but his opponents had a field day. Not just him, all our mids and half forwards. They streamed ahead of the ball, rebounded from half back and got the ball into space. Graham got a few in and under handballs out and used it okay, but he did very little else. He doesn't break the lines or move the ball into space and he is another slow mid. Our lack of speed around the ball is killing us.
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Speed around the ball was the glaring difference between the two teams on Saturday. I'm scared to say that the most dynamic mid we have atm is T Dow. He at least moves at pace to create seperation.
 
Grrr said:
Yes there will be players deleted at the end of the year, and he may well be one of them, but that is irrelevant to now.

I watched the game after reading the commentary, and this talk of not competing to me was just blame shifting. The ball came in just shoved onto the boot more often than not, and he was outpointed, especially early on, by experienced backman, or he wanted the ball out the back, and the kick wasn't good enough. He will have to do better than that.

He has lost a bit of confidence in the air, having been played on Ridley, Stewart and a few other much more accomplished players. Our forward line has been awful so defensive players have been having a field day.

He will either be dropped, which I think is unfair and given we have no others to take his place, or he will get another chance. Yes he is 23, but he pretty much lost two seasons to injury, so he is still learning. If he is good enough he will rebound, if not then he might well be gone.
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what you dont see on TV is how his opponent(Scrimshaw) worked off him when the ball was back in their hands. he neglected to chase or even notice his man was running away from him - rather his body language was terrible and head was down to even notice!
 
Had an absolute mare but he wasn't alone. Obvious statement but he's a confidence player...if we're not in the game then he has no ability to influence. In a competitive team I think he has it in him to be a handy footballer, but when the going is tough he does seem to struggle to force his way into the game.
 
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Grrr said:
He is playing in a difficult position. He is matched constantly against tall marking players who are much pretty much specialist players at intercept marking. The way the ball was pumped into our forward line made it impossible to mark the ball as a forward, just ask Lynch, Dusty or Bolton. I can't remember one ball that got kicked lace out to a forward, that is an inditement on our mids.

He had a dirty day, which he was due to have. Last week he had 5 possessions and kicked 3, that is never going to happen on a regular basis. He like all young players has to find more ways to get involved. The ball came into our forward 50m about 35 odd times for the game. Easy to pot the forwards, when none of them including our champions got much of it, much less a far less talented player like Cumberland.
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The problem is he wasn't competing for the ball in the marking contest, which resulted in uncontested intercept marks being taken. Not all of then were his fault but there were a few especially in the first half. Which is why many were calling for him to be subbed out at half time.

As mentioned I'm not writing him off or saying he'll make it, but the 2nd half of the season is going to be big for a lot of fringe players and Noah needs to get himself sorted or he'll be playing state league footy in 2025.
 
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