Play Nice 45th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 19: Law and Odour

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Malifice said:
You cant just claim an act is official and it becomes official.

If he whipped out a gun and shot someone during his morning coffee, he would be in strife. If he ordered a drone strike on a US citizen who was engaged in combat against the USA, he's fine.

I expected a level of immunity. Our Crown has the same immunity. It didnt come as a surprise.

And I use the Drone strike example, because Obama literally ordered a drone strike on a US citizen (who was fighting for ISIS). No trial etc. That's murder if you or I do it.

Obama was (and should remain) free from prosecution for it. He was acting within the scope of his Constitutional role as the Commander in chief against an adversary of the USA.

The real kicker is going to be if the SCOTUS rule that 'conspiring to overturn a lawful election and install yourself as an unelected dictator for 4 years' is 'within the core duties and constitutional responsibilities' of the office of President.

For mine, such an act is repugnant to the core duties of the President. And if the SCOTUS somehow reason themselves into thinking the Framers of the Constitution intended for a President to act in such a manner, free from criminal prosecution, they're absolutely cooked.

Can a President simply order a rival election candidate killed without any repercussions?

The SCOTUS interestingly specifically called out some of his alleged conduct as being immune (conversations he had with the VP and others about the election) but left open some of the other conduct he engaged in as being potentially not covered by immunity.

It now goes back to the lower courts for them to argue what conduct is covered and what conduct is not (which by no co-incidence pushes the trial past the election date).
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We all have immunity now, for acts that are not illegal - or cannot proven to be, beyond reasonable doubt.

The POTUS heads the WH executive, responsible for implementing and enforcing the laws written by Congress and, to that end, appointing heads of federal agencies. No WH administration has felt incapacitated, through the fear of the chief executive being indicted for his/her actions - nor will there be a genuine concern in the future, they are public administrators.

Watergate involved burglaries, illegal wiretaps and other crimes committed by operatives for Nixon's 1972 reelection campaign.

Bill Clinton lied to Congress.

The present Supreme Court believe they are the only judges that can be trusted to deliver justice. Concerned that judges in the lower courts will allow spurious indictments, convictions and incarceration from Presidents’ political opponents - that justifies placing them above the law. BUT no concern that a sitting President would oversee sham indictments, or accept bribes for ‘official’ acts.

Alleged war crimes (Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Bush) have not produced any movement toward prosecution in the U.S..

Regarding the President as a sacred creature, above the ordinary legal process, is an antipathy to the principle of natural justice and ‘no bias’ rule.

[Any act that involves the President could presumptively be seen as official - given the requisite presumption of innocence, and the exclusion of evidence of intent and motive.]
 
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Biden should immediately arrest Trump, Ginni Thomas everyone and anyone involved in Jan 6, he should then dissolve the Supreme Court and install more moderate Judges, he should criminalise Fox News and any other right wing propagandist broadcasters, Presidential immunity sounds awesome!👍
 
carltonchelsea said:
Biden should immediately arrest Trump, Ginni Thomas everyone and anyone involved in Jan 6, he should then dissolve the Supreme Court and install more moderate Judges, he should criminalise Fox News and any other right wing propagandist broadcasters, Presidential immunity sounds awesome!👍
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And whilst he’s at it, he should invade Mexico - no more border = immigration issue solved.
 

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carltonchelsea said:
Biden should immediately arrest Trump, Ginni Thomas everyone and anyone involved in Jan 6, he should then dissolve the Supreme Court and install more moderate Judges, he should criminalise Fox News and any other right wing propagandist broadcasters, Presidential immunity sounds awesome!👍
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The Democrats - always protecting democracy!
 
Yeah well thanks to Supreme Court Biden now has nearly the powers of old Kings…who used to put rivals to the sword. Maybe create a Militia ensure Trump if not elected. Scary stuff now in the US …democracy taken a massive hit. Big step closer to civil war
 
carltonchelsea said:
Biden should immediately arrest Trump, Ginni Thomas everyone and anyone involved in Jan 6, he should then dissolve the Supreme Court and install more moderate Judges, he should criminalise Fox News and any other right wing propagandist broadcasters, Presidential immunity sounds awesome!👍
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He should also seize Mar-A-Lago and give it to Planned Parenthood.
 
It's always been amusing for outsiders listening to Americans extol the virtues of their political structures based on the 'wisdom' of the founding fathers over 200 years ago.

They're slowly waking up to the fact that these creaky institutions are ridiculously outdated and vulnerable to a group with the will to ignore or overturn them.

Any country can slip from democracy to autocracy. The fact that it is happening to the US is both satisfying and disappointing.
 
swingdog said:
It's always been amusing for outsiders listening to Americans extol the virtues of their political structures based on the 'wisdom' of the founding fathers over 200 years ago.

They're slowly waking up to the fact that these creaky institutions are ridiculously outdated and vulnerable to a group with the will to ignore or overturn them.

Any country can slip from democracy to autocracy. The fact that it is happening to the US is both satisfying and disappointing.
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November will see them get what they deserve.
 

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Festerz said:
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old joke


David Aaronovitch, a well-known host of BBC Radio 4’s Briefing Room, tweeted and then deleted a satirical call for President Joe Biden to “hurry up and have Trump murdered” following the Supreme Court on Monday granting presidents sweeping immunity for “official acts.”

The Supreme Court stunned many pundits and observers in the U.S. – and apparently the U.K. – by ruling in largely favor of Trump’s argument that presidents should not face criminal prosecution for acts committed while in office. The ruling by Chief Justice John Roberts did not entirely clarify what constitutes an “official act” and left that distinction mostly to lower courts – although he did offer some guidelines.

Aaronovitch took a jab at the court’s decision writing on X, “If I was Biden I’d hurry up and have Trump murdered on the basis that he is a threat to America’s security #SCOTUS.” The specter of assas#SCOTUS.”mestic rivals was raised during the oral arguments for the case when Justice Sonia Sotomayor asked Trump lawyer John Sauer if he was arguing that a president should be able to order assassinations with impunity. Sauer argued in favor of such a hypothetical, citing impeachment as the only legal remedy.
 
Satan said:
He will say they were declassified
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How would that stand up if the documents were very top secret sensitive stuff like military and nuclear stuff?
I guess the only thing stopping charging a president with gross negligence is impeachment and that's never going to happen with the corrupt GOP. Shit he could sell all this stuff to the highest bidder.
 
carltonchelsea said:
Biden should immediately arrest Trump, Ginni Thomas everyone and anyone involved in Jan 6, he should then dissolve the Supreme Court and install more moderate Judges, he should criminalise Fox News and any other right wing propagandist broadcasters, Presidential immunity sounds awesome!👍
Click to expand...
Or alternatively just order drone attacks on them all. Seems much more efficient.
 
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