Player Watch #47: Ivan Soldo

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Fact is Nank is our No. 1 ruck and Captain. Soldo and Nank in same team doesn't work and Soldo provides nothing up forward. Must be traded to get maximum return. Hopefully Hardwick wants him cos I'd take pick 50 for him just for salary cap relief and to get more games in Ryan. A miracle would be a pick around 30. He's a luxury we can't afford and we need draft picks, someone will want him.
 

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If we could get anything in the second round, we have to trade him. We’ve stuffed up big time with no first rounder with the Hopper trade so need to trade back in, then try and package picks to move up.
 
richoplzbreed said:
Fact is Nank is our No. 1 ruck and Captain. Soldo and Nank in same team doesn't work and Soldo provides nothing up forward. Must be traded to get maximum return. Hopefully Hardwick wants him cos I'd take pick 50 for him just for salary cap relief and to get more games in Ryan. A miracle would be a pick around 30. He's a luxury we can't afford and we need draft picks, someone will want him.
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I doubt even Gold Coast will want him, they are trying to secure as many draft points as possible for their academy youngsters. Hence why they are entertaining trading Hollands for more draft capital.

Eagles don't have a Ruck, I know they are rebuilding but surely, we could trade him there for a 3rd rounder (pick 38? maybe?) He is only 27/28 It would plug a hole in their list and add more muscle to help protect their young side.
 
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Sell, next year Ryan will have another preseason under the belt and would be expected to play 22 games as fwd/2nd ruck to Nank. If nank gets injured we go to Miller. If we can get a pick 30-40 for Soldo take it and move on - reckon he'll do ok at a club that needs a ruckman
 
mauricerioli said:
Our Ruck stocks are poor, no way we can go into yet another season with a sub standard ruck division.
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Nank was probably the form ruck of the comp before he got injured. All you need in a ruck is a competitor and he's one of the best at that. Ryan is a competitor and a much better tap ruck than Nank, just needs to build his strength. Those two plus a draftee and Miller as a backup backup would be more than fine.

Paying Soldo probably 400-500k to only ever be a backup isn't good list management. We should sell him while he'll still have suitors.
 
I reckon Soldo is a good tap ruck and does a solid job. He can work well with Nank.

But, the bigger issue is that our mdifield isn't working well, and our overall game isn't gelling.

Soldo isn't a super star, but he does a job.

Whether Ryan can do the same job we've yet to see. He's not he beast Ivan is. But he has more strings to his bow.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.
 
tiger_tough said:
Nank was probably the form ruck of the comp before he got injured. All you need in a ruck is a competitor and he's one of the best at that. Ryan is a competitor and a much better tap ruck than Nank, just needs to build his strength. Those two plus a draftee and Miller as a backup backup would be more than fine.

Paying Soldo probably 400-500k to only ever be a backup isn't good list management. We should sell him while he'll still have suitors.
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Pretty sure Soldo will be on less than$400k.

I totally agree that if you can not get smashed in the ruck, that is the main thing you need. But I am in favour of keeping our ruck division stable next year, Nankervis-Soldo-Ryan-Miller.

Nankervis is your first ruck. Soldo is his back up if he gets injured. Ryan third in line for that role for another year as he matures further.

Miller and Ryan compete for the second ruck/forward spot. If they are all fit then Miller is something of a back up key defender as well if needed.

If Soldo gets a good offer he can't refuse then that is different. That should come with a pick in the early to mid 30's. Nankervis and Soldo both had fairly significant injuries this year. We don't want to ever get trapped with soft first rucks if avoidable. Soldo's first half v Melbourne was exceptionally good before he faded and Gawn smashed us but with a better preparation he should run games out better.

Hold all rucks for me.
 

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Ivan and Nank shouldn’t play together going forward but I would be very, very hesitant moving Soldo on in a trade. A dependable 2nd ruck that can do the job while your first is injured or suspended is crucial over the course of a long season. Ivan can hold his own against the best which is more than enough. Ryan and Miller much better suited to support Nank in game rather than be his cover.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Pretty sure Soldo will be on less than$400k.

I totally agree that if you can not get smashed in the ruck, that is the main thing you need. But I am in favour of keeping our ruck division stable next year, Nankervis-Soldo-Ryan-Miller.

Nankervis is your first ruck. Soldo is his back up if he gets injured. Ryan third in line for that role for another year as he matures further.

Miller and Ryan compete for the second ruck/forward spot. If they are all fit then Miller is something of a back up key defender as well if needed.

If Soldo gets a good offer he can't refuse then that is different. That should come with a pick in the early to mid 30's. Nankervis and Soldo both had fairly significant injuries this year. We don't want to ever get trapped with soft first rucks if avoidable. Soldo's first half v Melbourne was exceptionally good before he faded and Gawn smashed us but with a better preparation he should run games out better.

Hold all rucks for me.
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Honestly, mate, Soldo's game against Melbourne was the best performance as a pure ruckman I've seen from a Richmond ruck in decades. An avalanche of quality first use on tap from a massive 15 hit-outs to advantage. I wouldn't say he faded 2nd half, he maybe wasn't quite as good, but (as one unbiased measure) he was still slightly ahead of Gawn for game rating points until he went to the bench halfway through the last quarter and significantly more of his points were from pure rucking acts.

If we played Nank/Miller in that same shootout style game where quality centre clearances were absolutely essential, odds are we would have been smashed by 10+ goals like we have been many times before by them in recent years. The difference was Soldo - many of the rest of our players were too far below their best with their ball movement and execution and only getting it forward from the middle directly from the centre kept us in it. I honestly doubt you could find 15 hit-outs to advantage against Gawn from Nank's total collection of games against him which equal what Soldo pulled off.

I think there's a strong case to be made that we can't be certain we would have beaten any of the Eagles, Hawks or Norf without Soldo and with Nank instead over the last few weeks. Him giving us first use in the middle when we needed it was crucial in all of those games where our general play was sub-par and we just can't rely on Nank for that against literally anyone, as the McStay debacle finals loss highlighted in flashing bold letters.

We could carry an average at best centre square ruck when we had a side that could out-run, out-pressure, out-body and out-think the rest of the comp to make up for that reality. Nank himself could make up for it outside the centre square. Those players and those days are largely gone and it's time we did the smart, simple thing and just play our best tap ruck starting in the middle where he belongs.
 
Rayzorwire said:
Honestly, mate, Soldo's game against Melbourne was the best performance as a pure ruckman I've seen from a Richmond ruck in decades. An avalanche of quality first use on tap from a massive 15 hit-outs to advantage. I wouldn't say he faded 2nd half, he maybe wasn't quite as good, but (as one unbiased measure) he was still slightly ahead of Gawn for game rating points until he went to the bench halfway through the last quarter and significantly more of his points were from pure rucking acts.

If we played Nank/Miller in that same shootout style game where quality centre clearances were absolutely essential, odds are we would have been smashed by 10+ goals like we have been many times before by them in recent years. The difference was Soldo - many of the rest of our players were too far below their best with their ball movement and execution and only getting it forward from the middle directly from the centre kept us in it. I honestly doubt you could find 15 hit-outs to advantage against Gawn from Nank's total collection of games against him which equal what Soldo pulled off.

I think there's a strong case to be made that we can't be certain we would have beaten any of the Eagles, Hawks or Norf without Soldo and with Nank instead over the last few weeks. Him giving us first use in the middle when we needed it was crucial in all of those games where our general play was sub-par and we just can't rely on Nank for that against literally anyone, as the McStay debacle finals loss highlighted in flashing bold letters.

We could carry an average at best centre square ruck when we had a side that could out-run, out-pressure, out-body and out-think the rest of the comp to make up for that reality. Nank himself could make up for it outside the centre square. Those players and those days are largely gone and it's time we did the smart, simple thing and just play our best tap ruck starting in the middle where he belongs.
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Yes maybe with Soldo v Gawn it was more a case of Gawn realising he wasn't going to take Soldo down in a straight up ruck battle so he got clever and started focussing on winning ground balls. Just that Soldo could force him into that tactic is probably a great feather in Soldo's cap.

Nank I don't know. There are times where he doesn't have the tools to get us ahead. But there are so many moments where he does things better than almost all other rucks, especially pressure related things. He is also a very sound ball user.

It is not obvious that there is an absolute solution to how to deploy our rucks, but to me all 4 of Nankervis, Soldo, Ryan and Miller are bringing some things of value, even if in Ryan's case that is mostly potential. None of our rucks cost much either pick wise or salary. The low salary rucks is part of what allows us to have something about 14 teams don't have, an absolute gun key forward in Lynch, and 2 of what most teams don't have one of, gun mid-forwards in Martin and Bolton. With Nankervis playing this year, until the Marvel swing disasters v Dogs and Saints(both of those with Nank + Soldo), the only losses we had were v top 4 teams or by a kick. He is 29 with only 134 games on the clock and should have 3-4 decent seasons left in him.

As I posted earlier, I would stick with all of these guys unless one is dead set on leaving to an offer we can't match or we get an irresistible trade. Just try to make it work better. Focus all guns on 3 things over coming off seasons:

  • solving our short and longer term key forward issue
  • trying to locate a quality dynamic inside mid
  • developing our under-rated pool of youngsters.

I think if we start fiddling with our rucks just because we are not as strong in other areas as we used to be, we risk giving ourselves an extra major problem to solve.
 
Was one of his better games.

Spent more time forward , at one stage I looked at our forward set up snd it included Soldo, Prestia , Cotch . But surprisingly he made a decent fist of it , hit the packs and moved ok.

Took some freaky marks, contorting his body like a gymnast. Had us chuckling in the stands
 
Surely we can get Melbourne's first draft pick. They need a key forward :) samson as backup ruck will be fine after anothe preseason
 
Rayzorwire said:
Honestly, mate, Soldo's game against Melbourne was the best performance as a pure ruckman I've seen from a Richmond ruck in decades. An avalanche of quality first use on tap from a massive 15 hit-outs to advantage. I wouldn't say he faded 2nd half, he maybe wasn't quite as good, but (as one unbiased measure) he was still slightly ahead of Gawn for game rating points until he went to the bench halfway through the last quarter and significantly more of his points were from pure rucking acts.

If we played Nank/Miller in that same shootout style game where quality centre clearances were absolutely essential, odds are we would have been smashed by 10+ goals like we have been many times before by them in recent years. The difference was Soldo - many of the rest of our players were too far below their best with their ball movement and execution and only getting it forward from the middle directly from the centre kept us in it. I honestly doubt you could find 15 hit-outs to advantage against Gawn from Nank's total collection of games against him which equal what Soldo pulled off.

I think there's a strong case to be made that we can't be certain we would have beaten any of the Eagles, Hawks or Norf without Soldo and with Nank instead over the last few weeks. Him giving us first use in the middle when we needed it was crucial in all of those games where our general play was sub-par and we just can't rely on Nank for that against literally anyone, as the McStay debacle finals loss highlighted in flashing bold letters.

We could carry an average at best centre square ruck when we had a side that could out-run, out-pressure, out-body and out-think the rest of the comp to make up for that reality. Nank himself could make up for it outside the centre square. Those players and those days are largely gone and it's time we did the smart, simple thing and just play our best tap ruck starting in the middle where he belongs.
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To me Nank is a bit too short and plays more like a second ruck. He engages early and tries to negate the opposition ruck. Even when he wins, he drops the ball at his feet rather than to our mids. The question going forward is how long will his body last playing this way. Maybe the option is to get him to loose 10kg and play as a forward/ruck and play Soldo as first ruck.
 

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Player Watch #47: Ivan Soldo

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