Past 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton

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BigFrizz36 said:
Why are King and Montagna in raptures about the state of our list? They were going on and on last night about how we are in the sweet spot?

The decimating of the list of key position players was getting rid of blokes like Goddard and BSOS and others who were deemed to not be going to make it. Didn't particularly hurt us this year (fortunately Jones and Weitering got through) despite the replacement OMac getting injured. What we actually need is potential replacements that will not make us significantly worse if they were to play. The ones that we had stockpiled previously couldn't do that. Maybe Lewis Young helps out there

I don't get peoples obsession about winning trades. Melbourne were told that they overpaid with two firsts for Lever. Best to look back after to see how the trade works out. Saad had a good season and will be a huge weapon if we can get more midfield support for our defence (e.g. George Hewitt)

If west coast were only offering pick 52 for sps and we were accepting it wouldn't the deal be done by now? Let's see how it plays out.

The only way to look at how a club fares at a trade/draft period is to look at their overall strategy and outcomes. If we can end up with Cerra, Hewitt, Young and a couple of mid range draft picks whilst not diluting our hand for the 2022 draft and only losing sps then that would be a fantastic outcome. One that would make us a significantly better team in 2022.
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The success - or otherwise - of the recruiting decision of Saad, Williams, heck even Cerra and Hewett, is years off.

We get a flag or three in the next 5 years, no one will be bitching.

Williams, in particular, needs a a rocket, if he did indeed turn up at pre season well underdone (I have no idea as to whether that's true or not).
 

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4flagsin5yrs said:
The success - or otherwise - of the recruiting decision of Saad, Williams, heck even Cerra and Hewett, is years off.

We get a flag or three in the next 5 years, no one will be bitching.

Williams, in particular, needs a a rocket, if he did indeed turn up at pre season well underdone (I have no idea as to whether that's true or not).
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To my untrained eye I thought that Williams got hurt early and tried to play through it. I thought that he felt endebted to the club and thought that the onus was on him to try and play through.

I expect better things for/from him next year. Let him do what he does best at half back. Could well be overpaid but if he is elite and we are successful I don't really care.
 
Wickzki said:
Completely different scenarios.

Lever was named in the 40-man All-Australian squad as a 21 year old and had been earmarked as future club captain, etc. before Melbourne traded for him.

May was a co-captain at Gold Coast and was heralded as one of the best key position players on the competition before Melbourne traded for him.

Comparing those acquisitions to paying huge money and assets in trade for two half backs, one of which you could only hope could transition into the role you had earmarked him to play, is rather asinine.
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Not different scenarios at all

Things always look different in hindsight and or currently, which rarely plays out long term


Ask the Demon supporters prior to this year. Spending large currency on Lever who had only shown to be a 3rd tall defender. There were also many people, including people here criticising the May acquisition given his cultural and off field issues at GC.

As for Williams, I think he will play a greater role through the middle of the ground, hopefully his body is sound and turns up to preseason in the right condition
 
BigFrizz36 said:
To my untrained eye I thought that Williams got hurt early and tried to play through it. I thought that he felt endebted to the club and thought that the onus was on him to try and play through.

I expect better things for/from him next year. Let him do what he does best at half back. Could well be overpaid but if he is elite and we are successful I don't really care.
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Certainly get him playing good footy in his 'best' position, then give him a crack in the guts....
 
Wickzki said:
Completely different scenarios.

Lever was named in the 40-man All-Australian squad as a 21 year old and had been earmarked as future club captain, etc. before Melbourne traded for him.

May was a co-captain at Gold Coast and was heralded as one of the best key position players on the competition before Melbourne traded for him.

Comparing those acquisitions to paying huge money and assets in trade for two half backs, one of which you could only hope could transition into the role you had earmarked him to play, is rather asinine.
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I dont think list management at Carlton is a walk in the park - the team and its previous coaches were NOT drawcards for A grade players looking to play finals.

Saad/Williams in their positions are a cut above every player on the list except for Cripps/Harry/Walsh/Weitering and maybe a fit Charlie. That is the core of our team - the rest arent match winners or anywher near it.

What we've got is a lot of very underperforming high pick midfielder types and out of all of them the only confidence I have is Stocker and Kemp to actually make it as good AFL players.

Lets just stop kidding ourselves about SPS/LoB/Dow and probably a bunch of others as well - they have all been very disapointing given how long they have had at the CLub.

This is why we are going to pay pick 6 and second to get Cerra - and that will be cheap compared to waiting for Dow to learn to tackle
That is why we are getting Hewett - not because he is a superstar- but because we are paying for him instead of paying a revised up contract for the blokes already on our list - who are just not AFL finals players.

We are in mini rebuild - simple as that - and the fact that we are paying up for decent players means the blokes who are just not up to scratch are on their way out- this year or next year. There are two bench spots for rotating mids to fill - and both are vacant even with Cerra and Hewett coming on board and we are still massively short of KPP backs and forwards - developing in VFL.

Blaming Austin in his second year rteying to fill holes whilst being asked to cut list sizes and managing unkown salary cap levels courtesy of COVID is a tad harsh - especially given the totally dysfunctional football department he was working in.
 
I always think if a club is struggling to find a best position for a player and it's gone on for a few years then all else being equal, go with the players desired position. He's always said himself he thinks he's a forward/mid and idolises Rioli. He's not a half back IMHO, he's apparently not quite up to A grade full-time mid and that leaves really only one option for his best output; high half forward rotating through mid and delivering inside 50 off right or left foot. He's good enough to get possessions at forward stoppages as well, opening options for other mids and how they may be deployed. He wouldn't need to or be expected to get 30 possessions and it gives him some opportunity to apply defensive tackle pressure which he actually likes and says so. I think his tackling dropped off as his role was changed to be a half back outlet.
I'm not sure how much he was ever used in this type of role, but that's his spot IMO and also precisely where he sees himself. If he gets a decent stint at that type of role he could offer something.
 
Farang83150 said:
The Herald Sun says:
The Blues were hoping for more for Petrevski-Seton, the No. 6 pick in the 2016 draft, but have minimal leverage because they haven’t offered him a contract for 2022.
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I hate this line.

It doesn't mean we would have delisted him.

We have left a few players waiting before signing as we would not be against trading them if we get their value.

We have done this every year.

Only difference with SPS is he's requested the trade. I see no obligation.

WCE are obviously trying to get him in the PSD. I just hope the club remembers this next time we do any dealing with WC.

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Farang83150 said:
The Herald Sun says:
The Blues were hoping for more for Petrevski-Seton, the No. 6 pick in the 2016 draft, but have minimal leverage because they haven’t offered him a contract for 2022.
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Hoping for more? reminds me of GSwan’s approach in the Brock McLean trade; that approach didn’t achieve its desired effect. Threaten to send him to the draft, and follow through if necessary. It’ll play off in the long run.
 
GordonBlue said:
I hate this line.

It doesn't mean we would have delisted him.

We have left a few players waiting before signing as we would not be against trading them if we get their value.


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These players might not be delisted, but they might also. We’re waiting to see how trade period pans out before offering them new contacts and rolling the dice on their futures. We view these players as potential delistings - and that’s how we’ve treated SPS (he only nominated WC recently and we hadn’t offered him a contract) - we can’t complain if these players look elsewhere. It also makes it difficult to get good trade return. It ain’t a one way street - if I know I was potentially going to be made redundant I’d be looking for another job.


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Bfevola said:
Yep Kruger goes for pick 41 and we will bend over for pick 52. Bullshit !! Austin is a friggen pushover.
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austins not a push over, no deal has been done yet, this is a bluemour page, leaks sometimes are accurate and sometimes are deliberately leaked, or chinese whispers twist a message of pick 52 is what eagles want vs pick 52 is eagles absolute final offer...big difference. I'd be surprised if we settled for pick 52. Worst case you could organise it with fremantle to say get us closer to a pick 6 only deal or add a late pick in as well and we wont trade SPS let him walk to the pre-season draft and freo can swipe him for free before eagles get a chance
 
JustaBattler said:
I dont think list management at Carlton is a walk in the park - the team and its previous coaches were NOT drawcards for A grade players looking to play finals.

Saad/Williams in their positions are a cut above every player on the list except for Cripps/Harry/Walsh/Weitering and maybe a fit Charlie. That is the core of our team - the rest arent match winners or anywher near it.

What we've got is a lot of very underperforming high pick midfielder types and out of all of them the only confidence I have is Stocker and Kemp to actually make it as good AFL players.

Lets just stop kidding ourselves about SPS/LoB/Dow and probably a bunch of others as well - they have all been very disapointing given how long they have had at the CLub.

This is why we are going to pay pick 6 and second to get Cerra - and that will be cheap compared to waiting for Dow to learn to tackle
That is why we are getting Hewett - not because he is a superstar- but because we are paying for him instead of paying a revised up contract for the blokes already on our list - who are just not AFL finals players.

We are in mini rebuild - simple as that - and the fact that we are paying up for decent players means the blokes who are just not up to scratch are on their way out- this year or next year. There are two bench spots for rotating mids to fill - and both are vacant even with Cerra and Hewett coming on board and we are still massively short of KPP backs and forwards - developing in VFL.

Blaming Austin in his second year rteying to fill holes whilst being asked to cut list sizes and managing unkown salary cap levels courtesy of COVID is a tad harsh - especially given the totally dysfunctional football department he was working in.
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not to mention the fact that many teams have those sacrificial types like hewett to enable the starts to not defend...i.e think of the tigers with martin, we dont have the players to sacrifice their game to allow others to exploit their talents like i think dow and fisher would fall into that category for our mids who have the talent to bring the ball forward but if it doesnt work out whos there to protect us because you know dow and fisher wont run backwards
 
KnobHead said:
These players might not be delisted, but they might also. We’re waiting to see how trade period pans out before offering them new contacts and rolling the dice on their futures. We view these players as potential delistings - and that’s how we’ve treated SPS (he only nominated WC recently and we hadn’t offered him a contract) - we can’t complain if these players look elsewhere. It also makes it difficult to get good trade return. It ain’t a one way street - if I know I was potentially going to be made redundant I’d be looking for another job.


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^^This.
Who doesn't want to control their own future, and how would you feel if your employer said...we might give you the boot!
 
Lovers said:
not to mention the fact that many teams have those sacrificial types like hewett to enable the starts to not defend...i.e think of the tigers with martin, we dont have the players to sacrifice their game to allow others to exploit their talents like i think dow and fisher would fall into that category for our mids who have the talent to bring the ball forward but if it doesnt work out whos there to protect us because you know dow and fisher wont run backwards
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Flag winning teams are defense first teams in every contact sport played - naive coaches think that they can re-invent this fact by weakineing defensive effort in order to promote attacking capability. It doesn't work against better teams - because they use thier defensive pressure as a form of attack - which is teh real secret of defense first strategyu btw - hurt and pressure the opposition when they do have the ball with tackles and run ...

Defense first doesn't mean a boring game with no attack - it just means if you want to play you have to be able to:

1. make your tackles; and
2. not let your direct opponent get away from you and provide overlap.

The failure of Teague to understand these basics in his team selection and game plan led to his demise. Joe the goose type game plans - where you instruct players to run forward and find space look good when everything is going your way - but if you aren't dominating the contested ball- you are cooked.

This is why Carlton under Ratten looked great in attack and average defending. This is why Adelaide got smashed in their grand final trying to play jowe the goose stuff against a team that was happy to hard in tackles . Teague hjust brought his Adelaide game style with him - except he didnt even have teh kicking ability in teh side to do teh attack properly - teh defensive lapses were horrendous.

This is why Carlton has made hard work of beating any team - the so called one way running style is an outcome of expecting too much run for too long from too many - the players run out of gas and after a few games try and preserve energy which just means they find ways of doidging the basics.
 
Lovers said:
austins not a push over, no deal has been done yet, this is a bluemour page, leaks sometimes are accurate and sometimes are deliberately leaked, or chinese whispers twist a message of pick 52 is what eagles want vs pick 52 is eagles absolute final offer...big difference. I'd be surprised if we settled for pick 52. Worst case you could organise it with fremantle to say get us closer to a pick 6 only deal or add a late pick in as well and we wont trade SPS let him walk to the pre-season draft and freo can swipe him for free before eagles get a chance
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Highly unlikely Freo or WC would be using an early pic on SPS in the draft
 
KnobHead said:
These players might not be delisted, but they might also. We’re waiting to see how trade period pans out before offering them new contacts and rolling the dice on their futures. We view these players as potential delistings - and that’s how we’ve treated SPS (he only nominated WC recently and we hadn’t offered him a contract) - we can’t complain if these players look elsewhere. It also makes it difficult to get good trade return. It ain’t a one way street - if I know I was potentially going to be made redundant I’d be looking for another job.


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No saying they cannot look elsewhere. All I am stating is that because we did not present him with an offer, it means he has no value.

If let's just say no club wanted SPS or SPS had not requested a trade, we would have only traded him if the price is right and if not, we would have re-signed him.

From SPS' perspective, I am not happy that his drive is why we are here, however now that we are, I don't blame him for requesting a trade, especially to a WA club.
 
Arr0w said:
Not different scenarios at all

Things always look different in hindsight and or currently, which rarely plays out long term


Ask the Demon supporters prior to this year. Spending large currency on Lever who had only shown to be a 3rd tall defender. There were also many people, including people here criticising the May acquisition given his cultural and off field issues at GC.

As for Williams, I think he will play a greater role through the middle of the ground, hopefully his body is sound and turns up to preseason in the right condition
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If you can't see the difference in acquiring flankers versus acquiring key position players (Lever had the luxury of being third tall while his body developed but was always going to be a KPD, May was still a co-captain despite supposed 'cultutal issues' which were never to the level of a Dixon and his talent beyond question) then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

KP's always carry significant cost. Flankers do not.

You'd better bloody hope Williams plays a greater role. However, until he proves physically capable of doing that he's an overpaid flanker.

We're also investing close to or more than a million per season for a pair of midfielders and it's expected that Stocker will assume a position there as well. That leaves fewer opportunities for the likes of Williams to impose himself.
 
Wickzki said:
If you can't see the difference in acquiring flankers versus acquiring key position players (Lever had the luxury of being third tall while his body developed but was always going to be a KPD, May was still a co-captain despite supposed 'cultutal issues' which were never to the level of a Dixon and his talent beyond question) then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

KP's always carry significant cost. Flankers do not.

You'd better bloody hope Williams plays a greater role. However, until he proves physically capable of doing that he's an overpaid flanker.

We're also investing close to or more than a million per season for a pair of midfielders and it's expected that Stocker will assume a position there as well. That leaves fewer opportunities for the likes of Williams to impose himself.
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You target what you need, whether that is a KPF, KPD, Ruckman or any other type. And that doesn't change the focus of my original post of how players are viewed at different stages of their careers and or the progression of a side

Williams has already proved that he can play a mid role, but even if he remains a HBF, it may help unlock the likes of Stocker playing through the middle, the sum of all parts

I don't get too caught up on TPP, it's more about trade cost and Williams was a free hit
 
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GordonBlue said:
No saying they cannot look elsewhere. All I am stating is that because we did not present him with an offer, it means he has no value.

If let's just say no club wanted SPS or SPS had not requested a trade, we would have only traded him if the price is right and if not, we would have re-signed him.

From SPS' perspective, I am not happy that his drive is why we are here, however now that we are, I don't blame him for requesting a trade, especially to a WA club.
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What contract a player is offered, or nor offered, has nothing to do with his trade value
 

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Past 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton

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