Player Watch #7: Ben Lennon

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Goldust said:
The reason we are where we are is Dusty going to another level, Cotchin rediscovering top form, Rance, Riewoldt back at FF and the addition of a good ruckman.
Edwards give me a break! Butler, Castagna and Rioli have had more quiet games than good!
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Not so. The small forwards with their pressure make it difficult for backs to waltz it out of our back line like in previous years. Sure there are other factors, like the form of our top line players and the fact that with Vickery missing it means we actually chase. Our back line is the major beneficiary of this forward pressure with players forced to kick hurriedly. Individually they are not doing anything special, as I pointed out, but collectively they hunt. This sort of pressure takes its toll, hense we have not been running out games, and we are desperate for another forward, but I think the formula has helped us lift this year. We need to refresh these smalls. Bolton has a been good since coming in, Stengle is next and Butler and Castagna will need a spell in the VFL. Pressure is the no. 1 thing in footy these days, witness Hawks last night.
 
Grrr said:
Not so. The small forwards with their pressure make it difficult for backs to waltz it out of our back line like in previous years. Sure there are other factors, like the form of our top line players and the fact that with Vickery missing it means we actually chase. Our back line is the major beneficiary of this forward pressure with players forced to kick hurriedly. Individually they are not doing anything special, as I pointed out, but collectively they hunt. This sort of pressure takes its toll, hense we have not been running out games, and we are desperate for another forward, but I think the formula has helped us lift this year. We need to refresh these smalls. Bolton has a been good since coming in, Stengle is next and Butler and Castagna will need a spell in the VFL. Pressure is the no. 1 thing in footy these days, witness Hawks last night.
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So we throw in a guy like Lennon who, like Vickery, will let blokes waltz out of the backline?
 
Goldust said:
Dude, I'm 45 and been going to the footy since I was about five, when i went with my mum in a Tigers jumper and footy boots.
I had decades of optimism ... and decades of Jon Hummel, Phillip Bottams, Wayne Shand, Tom Crebbin, Tim Livingstone, Mark McLeod, Paul Morrish, ty Esler, Jamie Elliott, Brad Gwilliam, Ben Moore, Matthew Manfield, Ben Hollands, John Rombotis, Steve McKee, Craid Ednie, Andrew Mills, Bill Nicholls, Luke Weller, Jarad Oakley0-Nicholls, Jeremy Humm, Brent Hartigan, Cleve Hughes, Jayden Post, Jarrod Silvester, Tom Hislop, Jamie O'Reilly, Deam McDonald, Matt Arnott, Taylor Hunt ......
We're out of optimism at this here residence.
I did say I was cynical.
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I have only 1 thing to say after that list of players!
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Goldust said:
So we throw in a guy like Lennon who, like Vickery, will let blokes waltz out of the backline?
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I honestly thought Lennon was quite good in the 2 games he was given this year and should have been given longer. Imagine how valuable he'd have been the past few weeks given we've been missing a tall, at least he would have provided a marking option outside of Riewoldt and Caddy.

But yeah in those two matches you could see his intent to chase and tackle and he would have only gotten better. We already know he has very good skills when he gets it.

Now he has continuity, finally, and is playing well at VFL level. Needs to be rewarded with a string of AFL games.

And anyway, what's changed since he shouldn't have been dropped for the 2015 final? Nothing, except for his confidence plummeting due to being out of favour and also having had a poor run at it due to illness/injury.

So if he shouldn't have been dropped in 2015, and if he hasn't gotten worse as a player since (and he certainly hasn't), why does he not deserve another go now?

I honestly think we're wasting someone who could be a very good player for us, so he bloody better be in the side this weekend.
 
Grrr said:
Is Lennon getting games. If he is selected today, it's because nobody else is available. And nobody doesn't chase like Vickery.
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What amuses me is some posters on here are as inconsistent as our team's performances.
Seven possessions and one or two goals from Vickery was not acceptable - and rightfully so - but the same output from Lennon is ok???
We've built a game on pressure acts and chasing, but it's not acceptable for Vickery to not buy in, but we're excluding Lennon because we have others to do the dirty work now in Butler and co.???
Excuse me, I'll be made out to be the prick again and the calls of a vendetta will come, but there are MINIMUM standard that must apply to ALL players, not a select few. And Lennon has not upheld these standards in the past.
I am happy for him to be selected on his good VFL form and given six games if need be, but sorry, if he can't learn to chase and apply some semblance of pressure, take marks and kick goals, his fate is sealed.
Foot-speed is an issue ... and even the moist staunch of Lennon fans has to agree, he's not going to go from slow to Butler or Rioli-like or anywhere near close. And that's the issue, in all bar two games, he's been caught out by the pace of the game.
No coincidence his best game by a mile was in the wet v Essendon.
 
RobsJourney said:
I honestly thought Lennon was quite good in the 2 games he was given this year and should have been given longer. Imagine how valuable he'd have been the past few weeks given we've been missing a tall, at least he would have provided a marking option outside of Riewoldt and Caddy.

But yeah in those two matches you could see his intent to chase and tackle and he would have only gotten better. We already know he has very good skills when he gets it.

Now he has continuity, finally, and is playing well at VFL level. Needs to be rewarded with a string of AFL games.

And anyway, what's changed since he shouldn't have been dropped for the 2015 final? Nothing, except for his confidence plummeting due to being out of favour and also having had a poor run at it due to illness/injury.

So if he shouldn't have been dropped in 2015, and if he hasn't gotten worse as a player since (and he certainly hasn't), why does he not deserve another go now?

I honestly think we're wasting someone who could be a very good player for us, so he bloody better be in the side this weekend.
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Imagine how valuable he'd have been the past few weeks given we've been missing a tall, at least he would have provided a marking option outside of Riewoldt and Caddy.

The same defence given for the retention of Elton ... yet those marks and an option did not come.
Lennon's two games this season - one was just decent, the other putrid!
 
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Hope he gets a go.

I wonder if Maric plays whether Lennon stays in the outer. Maric rucks, Nank to CHF. One solution that in some ways is better than Lennon to CHF. Only issue is if Maric can recapture his old form. If so, then I suspect Ben might be unlucky again.

Hope not actually. He's playing well. And we have to kick more goals.
 
Tigers3754 said:
Incorrect, as I understand their relationship is amiable.

In fact, Ben has been told by a certain coach (Forwards), that he does not fit into an AFL Structure. That is, he is too small to be a tall and not fit enough/fast enough to play as a small. Whilst that would seem like a punch in the face, Ben has taken it on the chin and tried to work on the issue he can fix (fitness and speed). These reports about Ben being lazy/uphimself/not working hard enough could not be more incorrect. In fact the club is happy with his attitude/ work ethic.

Hopefully this discussion with said forwards coach turns into a motivator and excels Ben's career. There has never been any doubt about his football ability. He just needs a good string of games to prove his wear.
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Thanks for sharing those insights.

Stunning concession about a 1st draft selection that a player selected now doesn't fit into an AFL Structure. Perhaps it was more meant Ben didn't fit onto Richmond's present AFL team structure?

Ben and Leppa are working very closely. If it is someone else - fair enough, but Leppa has had a lot of input - a personal mentor if you like. He really is Mr Inbetween is Ben. I watched him closely for the two long training sessions at Maroochydore (a small sample I know, but it's all I get) and he confirmed for me a number of shortcomings. He was quite underwhelming. In all sessions he seemed to want to get thought them as easily as possible - sometimes that's a good thing, can even be smarts in certain situations!? After being very optimistic about him post 2015 Elim finals, when I thought he should have been played, I walked away think of him as Mr Justenuff.

The irony is there really is no place for him in our best 22, yet, if he could buckle down (as we are told in reports he has) he could pinch a spot as easily as he ever could.
 
Goldust said:
What amuses me is some posters on here are as inconsistent as our team's performances.
Seven possessions and one or two goals from Vickery was not acceptable - and rightfully so - but the same output from Lennon is ok???
We've built a game on pressure acts and chasing, but it's not acceptable for Vickery to not buy in, but we're excluding Lennon because we have others to do the dirty work now in Butler and co.???
Excuse me, I'll be made out to be the prick again and the calls of a vendetta will come, but there are MINIMUM standard that must apply to ALL players, not a select few. And Lennon has not upheld these standards in the past.
I am happy for him to be selected on his good VFL form and given six games if need be, but sorry, if he can't learn to chase and apply some semblance of pressure, take marks and kick goals, his fate is sealed.
Foot-speed is an issue ... and even the moist staunch of Lennon fans has to agree, he's not going to go from slow to Butler or Rioli-like or anywhere near close. And that's the issue, in all bar two games, he's been caught out by the pace of the game.
No coincidence his best game by a mile was in the wet v Essendon.
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I this is aimed at me I totally agree with you. By the way Vickery has games of 3 or 4 possessions last year not just 7. The major problem with Lennon is lack of pace, exactly why he hasn't played for 2 months. I'm not even advocating him playing, just think that he might get a game due to the gaping need of anyone who can mark overhead. Also if he is playing it will probably be in for Lloyd, who is about the same speed. Still need to pressure but more in for his ability to lead up and mark. And that is vastly different to Vickery who plonked in the goal square most of the season. (If Vickery had a motor, then he would be a massive upgrade on what we've been doing at CHF, because he can play. But like Cloke and other slow dinosaurs, the game has past them by).
 
Grrr said:
Is Lennon getting games. If he is selected today, it's because nobody else is available.
And nobody doesn't chase like Vickery.
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My girlfriend teaches literature and while she probably wouldn't like this grammar, I would argue its the best description of Vickery I've ever seen!!
 
jreesosb said:
My girlfriend teaches literature and while she probably wouldn't like this grammar, I would argue its the best description of Vickery I've ever seen!!
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Then take this home if you care......

You can tell a teacher....


you just can't tell them much.
 
TigermanM2 said:
I think you are either born with a great tank or you're not. It's a genetics issue. You can get fitter and improve but it doesn't mean you will get to AFL midfield level. You also need to be able to find the ball. Playing in the VFL midfield week after week won't necessarily help and it might go the other way where any confidence you may have is shot to pieces.
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Sorry mate this just isn't true, I have seen plenty of novices train their backsides off to become decent ironmen, everything improves the more you do...
 
Hot tigers said:
Sorry mate this just isn't true, I have seen plenty of novices train their backsides off to become decent ironmen, everything improves the more you do...
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Sure you improve with training but not every player can get to that elite level that allows you to run through the midfield all day. I bet Sam LLoyd worked just as hard as BEllis during last years preseason and yes he improved dramatically but he was still only a fraction of the runner BEllis is. No amount of training is going to fix that.
 

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Player Watch #7: Ben Lennon

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