Player Watch #9: Trent Cotchin is an obscenely good 3 x Premiership Captain, Victorian Captain & Brownlow Medalist

[JAKLAUGHING]

Really put the rubber stamp of our era in 2020.
I don't care what the oppo nuff nuffs or some media people say or more the point didn't say,But 2020 defined us as a great side.
As you stated we went all over the place and even on GF day we lost 2 important players in defence in Vlas & Houli(Hammy issues).
Yet we still prevailed.
What a Team!

No point in getting heated up arguing those facts with oppo supporters!
They KNOW we were that good! We all KNOW it!
Just have to calmly remind them of that fact when they start gob sheeting their nonsense!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

No point in getting heated up arguing those facts with oppo supporters!
They KNOW we were that good! We all KNOW it!
Just have to calmly remind them of that fact when they start gob sheeting their nonsense!

Oppo fans they have their Biased views.
Media though i thought they had to be Balanced?

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Oppo fans they have their Biased views.
Media though i thought they had to be Balanced?

 

[Chat Pile]

I mentioned his 2012 season - I reckon Cotchin's was better (even though they obviously tied for votes)

My mistake.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Just had a random thought about the great man.

How good was his 2012 Brownlow year, and how does it stack up to other Brownlow seasons.

I would could confidently say Cotchin 2012 was > than:

• Neale 2023
• Cripps 2022
• Wines 2021
• Neale 2020
• Fyfe 2019
• Mitchell 2018
• Priddis 2014
• Mitchell 2012
• Judd 2010
• Cooney 2008
• Bartel 2007
• Goodes 2006
• Cousins 2005
• Goodes, Buckley, Ricciuto 2003
• Black 2002
• Akermanis 2001
• Woewodin 2000

IMO only Dusty, Danger, Fyfe (once), Swan, Judd (once) and GAJ (twice) has better Brownlow seasons.

What a farkin legend

I agree...
It's so long ago now in footy years...no wonder people/scribes forget...but Cotchin 2012 was peak...clean and super competitive...absolutely awesome...took a drug cheat in JabWatson to beat him!
Anticipation personified, the amount of oppo kick ins Cotchin was able to shark was amazing!
Reckon that Cotchin from back then would match Dusty any game day!
Head to head Cotchin would cream Selwood and his umpire loving ducking!
Heck even go so far as saying Lids from back then was pretty good as well!
And I reckon that Cooney dumbo that he is still...was a great footballer before injuries cruelled his continuity...never managed to see the best of the Coon Dog!

 

[RoaringTiger]

I want to know who the six players that went to Neville Crowe’s funeral were

My guess would be cotch, ivan maric, Dave astbury, Steve Morris, lambo and sheds

 

[richoplzbreed]

Just had a random thought about the great man.

How good was his 2012 Brownlow year, and how does it stack up to other Brownlow seasons.

I would could confidently say Cotchin 2012 was > than:

• Neale 2023
• Cripps 2022
• Wines 2021
• Neale 2020
• Fyfe 2019
• Mitchell 2018
• Priddis 2014
• Mitchell 2012
• Judd 2010
• Cooney 2008
• Bartel 2007
• Goodes 2006
• Cousins 2005
• Goodes, Buckley, Ricciuto 2003
• Black 2002
• Akermanis 2001
• Woewodin 2000

IMO only Dusty, Danger, Fyfe (once), Swan, Judd (once) and GAJ (twice) has better Brownlow seasons.

What a farkin legend

So I take it you watched every single game of AFL played over the last 20 years? Must have a lot of spare time if you can watch 27 hours of footy each weekend. Most opposition teams I'd be lucky to watch 1/4 of a game each that Tigers aren't in each season.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Definitely going in with supporter eyes here.

So I take it you watched every single game of AFL played over the last 20 years? Must have a lot of spare time if you can watch 27 hours of footy each weekend. Most opposition teams I'd be lucky to watch 1/4 of a game each that Tigers aren't in each season.

How many other Brownlow medallists (of the ones I said had seasons not as good as Cotchin's) averaged at least 27 possessions, 0.95 goals, and 5 clearances?

• Woewodin (2000) - no
• Akermanis (2001) - no
• Black (2002) - no
• Ricciuto (2003) - no
• Goodes (2003) - no
• Buckley (2003) - yes
• Cousins (2005) - no
• Goodes (2006) - no
• Bartel (2007) - no
• Cooney (2008) - no
• Judd (2010) - no
• S Mitchell (2012) - no
• Priddis (2014) - no
• T Mitchell (2018) - no
• Fyfe (2019) - no
• Neale (2020) - no
• Wines (2021) - no
• Cripps (2022) - yes
• Neale (2023) - no

So of that original list, none of those guys were able to win the footy and the clearance, and also hit the scoreboard, as well as Cotchin, except for Bucks (2003) and Cripps (2022). So still up for debate, but I don't think my claim was an outlandish one.

Some of those guys had better numbers than Cotchin in one area - like Fyfe or T Mitchell being clearance kings - but if you look at the best seasons ever, guys like Danger 16, Dusty 17, and GAJ's best seasons, what set them apart was hitting the scoreboard plus winning their own ball on the inside. Cotch is in elite company doing both of those things so well in 2012.

 

[tastiger]

How many times did we hear the name "Mrs Hardwick" over the journey ....

He was talking about Mrs Hardwick through 2020 while seeing a new misses... That's a bit low.

On VOG-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tastiger]

Yeah it was more of a running gag for Dimma because he would jokingly bring her up in press conferences and the media seemed to enjoy the banter

But in reality she would of had no more or less of a presence at the club as any other coaches partner

Didn’t Scott and Goodwin go through separations during the same period? Seems Dimma’s split only got focus due to some tall poppy syndrome at play with us being at the peak of our powers

To be fair, the other two didn't bring their wife's into all and any conversation.

On VOG-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[peternorth]

Or perhaps at a stretch mrs hardwick in 2020 hindsight means any female partner of hardwick at any time

 

[Groupie_]

How many other Brownlow medallists (of the ones I said had seasons not as good as Cotchin's) averaged at least 27 possessions, 0.95 goals, and 5 clearances?

• Woewodin (2000) - no
• Akermanis (2001) - no
• Black (2002) - no
• Ricciuto (2003) - no
• Goodes (2003) - no
• Buckley (2003) - yes
• Cousins (2005) - no
• Goodes (2006) - no
• Bartel (2007) - no
• Cooney (2008) - no
• Judd (2010) - no
• S Mitchell (2012) - no
• Priddis (2014) - no
• T Mitchell (2018) - no
• Fyfe (2019) - no
• Neale (2020) - no
• Wines (2021) - no
• Cripps (2022) - yes
• Neale (2023) - no

So of that original list, none of those guys were able to win the footy and the clearance, and also hit the scoreboard, as well as Cotchin, except for Bucks (2003) and Cripps (2022). So still up for debate, but I don't think my claim was an outlandish one.

Some of those guys had better numbers than Cotchin in one area - like Fyfe or T Mitchell being clearance kings - but if you look at the best seasons ever, guys like Danger 16, Dusty 17, and GAJ's best seasons, what set them apart was hitting the scoreboard plus winning their own ball on the inside. Cotch is in elite company doing both of those things so well in 2012.

players that wear a yellow sash are judged with jealousy by the afl world and oppos

there are people out there that still think nick shanks riewoldt was a better player than jack

 

[richoplzbreed]

I agree...
It's so long ago now in footy years...no wonder people/scribes forget...but Cotchin 2012 was peak...clean and super competitive...absolutely awesome...took a drug cheat in JabWatson to beat him!
Anticipation personified, the amount of oppo kick ins Cotchin was able to shark was amazing!
Reckon that Cotchin from back then would match Dusty any game day!
Head to head Cotchin would cream Selwood and his umpire loving ducking!
Heck even go so far as saying Lids from back then was pretty good as well!
And I reckon that Cooney dumbo that he is still...was a great footballer before injuries cruelled his continuity...never managed to see the best of the Coon Dog!

Peak Cotchin doesn't come close to

How many other Brownlow medallists (of the ones I said had seasons not as good as Cotchin's) averaged at least 27 possessions, 0.95 goals, and 5 clearances?

• Woewodin (2000) - no
• Akermanis (2001) - no
• Black (2002) - no
• Ricciuto (2003) - no
• Goodes (2003) - no
• Buckley (2003) - yes
• Cousins (2005) - no
• Goodes (2006) - no
• Bartel (2007) - no
• Cooney (2008) - no
• Judd (2010) - no
• S Mitchell (2012) - no
• Priddis (2014) - no
• T Mitchell (2018) - no
• Fyfe (2019) - no
• Neale (2020) - no
• Wines (2021) - no
• Cripps (2022) - yes
• Neale (2023) - no

So of that original list, none of those guys were able to win the footy and the clearance, and also hit the scoreboard, as well as Cotchin, except for Bucks (2003) and Cripps (2022). So still up for debate, but I don't think my claim was an outlandish one.

Some of those guys had better numbers than Cotchin in one area - like Fyfe or T Mitchell being clearance kings - but if you look at the best seasons ever, guys like Danger 16, Dusty 17, and GAJ's best seasons, what set them apart was hitting the scoreboard plus winning their own ball on the inside. Cotch is in elite company doing both of those things so well in 2012.

My point was unless you watched every single game it's pointless making a call. Hayden Bunton Sr was universally acknowledged as the greatest player of all time. Now he's never even brought up.
Firstly stats are misleading. I'd take Daicos' 3 clearances that hit a teammate over Taranto's 6 that go anywhere, much like a lot of Cotchins. Brownlows are bullsh1t anyway Rance could play the greatest game of all time getting zero votes whilst Darcy Parish gets 3 votes based on numbers only.

Cochin, like Gary Ablett Jr, was elite at padding his stats with unnecessary cheap 1-2's regularly handballing pointlessly to flat-footed teammates then demanding it back, same as some of his dinky sideways kicks that were never going to be paid a mark because they barely went 10m. Cochin was a good player but not even close to Dusty.

His disposals were rarely damaging he'd rack up 30+ disposals but didn't really hurt opposition. Obviously he'll be hall of fame on back of a Brownlow and 3x premiership Captain. But he's held as this mythical player when he was just a good solid player. Knights and Deledio were way better players, much like Richo success eluded them and will be forgotten as great players.

Cotchin only had 1 all Australian selection his whole career.

 

[tigs2010]

Guarantee mistress Harwick will ditch him for some Bondi property developer.

Mistress Hardwick lmao can’t wait for those references in his pressers

 

[Groupie_]

Mistress Hardwick lmao can’t wait for those references in his pressers

more richmond supporters will watch his pressers than gold coast

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

Peak Cotchin doesn't come close to

My point was unless you watched every single game it's pointless making a call. Hayden Bunton Sr was universally acknowledged as the greatest player of all time. Now he's never even brought up.
Firstly stats are misleading. I'd take Daicos' 3 clearances that hit a teammate over Taranto's 6 that go anywhere, much like a lot of Cotchins. Brownlows are bullsh1t anyway Rance could play the greatest game of all time getting zero votes whilst Darcy Parish gets 3 votes based on numbers only.

Cochin, like Gary Ablett Jr, was elite at padding his stats with unnecessary cheap 1-2's regularly handballing pointlessly to flat-footed teammates then demanding it back, same as some of his dinky sideways kicks that were never going to be paid a mark because they barely went 10m. Cochin was a good player but not even close to Dusty.

His disposals were rarely damaging he'd rack up 30+ disposals but didn't really hurt opposition. Obviously he'll be hall of fame on back of a Brownlow and 3x premiership Captain. But he's held as this mythical player when he was just a good solid player. Knights and Deledio were way better players, much like Richo success eluded them and will be forgotten as great players.

Cotchin only had 1 all Australian selection his whole career.

LMAO the AA has even less credibility than the Brownlow.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Peak Cotchin doesn't come close to

My point was unless you watched every single game it's pointless making a call. Hayden Bunton Sr was universally acknowledged as the greatest player of all time. Now he's never even brought up.
Firstly stats are misleading. I'd take Daicos' 3 clearances that hit a teammate over Taranto's 6 that go anywhere, much like a lot of Cotchins. Brownlows are bullsh1t anyway Rance could play the greatest game of all time getting zero votes whilst Darcy Parish gets 3 votes based on numbers only.

Cochin, like Gary Ablett Jr, was elite at padding his stats with unnecessary cheap 1-2's regularly handballing pointlessly to flat-footed teammates then demanding it back, same as some of his dinky sideways kicks that were never going to be paid a mark because they barely went 10m. Cochin was a good player but not even close to Dusty.

His disposals were rarely damaging he'd rack up 30+ disposals but didn't really hurt opposition. Obviously he'll be hall of fame on back of a Brownlow and 3x premiership Captain. But he's held as this mythical player when he was just a good solid player. Knights and Deledio were way better players, much like Richo success eluded them and will be forgotten as great players.

Cotchin only had 1 all Australian selection his whole career.

By a long way one of the worst posts I’ve read on here. Phenomenal leader who did all the hard things on the field for his team, yet according to you, he’s a stats padder. Knights and Lids way better, not even close to being the leader and tough nut that Cotchin was. He will be hall of fame alright, because he’s fully earnt it.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Cochin, like Gary Ablett Jr, was elite at padding his stats with unnecessary cheap 1-2's regularly handballing pointlessly to flat-footed teammates then demanding it back, same as some of his dinky sideways kicks that were never going to be paid a mark because they barely went 10m.

His disposals were rarely damaging he'd rack up 30+ disposals but didn't really hurt opposition. Obviously he'll be hall of fame on back of a Brownlow and 3x premiership Captain. But he's held as this mythical player when he was just a good solid player.

They were fair comments earlier in his career and I once said similar things.

To say it after 2017 though?

Never.

Really unfair appraisal of the latter half of Cotch's career, IMO.

Hardwick and others from the coaching and playing group must be on record dozens of times saying we had to erase all that stat padding stuff from our game to become successful and the numbers back it up - in the 78 games through our finals era Cotch played in he went over 30 possessions only 7 times.

Hardwick used to routinely defend the low possession hauls of all our mids to the media as exactly the kind of game we were after from them - no meaningless ball movement.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Mrs H was indirectly important to the club, you can't say it had no effect on the Team especially when a tight bond like ours was created.

We know they are professional footy players but they are also Human, mental side of the game is as important as anything.
See after the 2020 season, we were off by miles. that should tell you all you need to know.

Dimma marriage split or the retirement or downtrend in form of:

Rance
Houli
Astbury
Lambert
Edwards
Riewoldt
Cotchin
Grigg
Caddy

And who have we replaced those 9 x players with?

Why anyone would think there wouldn’t be a drop off post-2020 is beyond me, marriage split or not.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Noidnadroj]

Being flawless in example is his job mate. That’s why he is a head coach and paid big bucks. It’s then about the type of example you want to set. For Dimma, it was the family man, mrs hardwick vibe that he chose. You can’t preach something for others to follow and then behind the scenes not live those values. When you get found out everyone realises it was all a fraud

Being a family man that ends up getting divorced happens all the time. Dimma has three kids and was married for 20-years - he made a few quips about Mrs Hardwick in happier times … big deal. Close to 50% of marriages end in divorce FFS. Half the list has probably cheated on their partner at some stage in their lives. This Dimma split thing is so overblown it’s not funny.



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[Noidnadroj]

Being flawless in example is his job mate. That’s why he is a head coach and paid big bucks. It’s then about the type of example you want to set. For Dimma, it was the family man, mrs hardwick vibe that he chose. You can’t preach something for others to follow and then behind the scenes not live those values. When you get found out everyone realises it was all a fraud

And just on this … being ‘flawless’ is exactly what they STOPPED preaching at the club, remember? Cotch stopped acting like ‘Mr Perfect’ and embraced his vulnerability, remember? Embracing everyone’s imperfections and vulnerability on field and off was the key to our success. So if anyone expected Dimma to be ‘perfect’, that was going against everything the club had preached post-2016.


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[Noidnadroj]

Covid Cup was the best. It proved we were a great dynastic side.

Played one game with Home ground advantage all year (v Carlton in RD 1 - as if Carlton don't play most of their games at the MCG anyway, rather than their 'technical' home ground at Marvel), and played 3 games 'away' - the rest were neutral. Finished 3rd (the two sides that finished above us - Port played 6 games with Home ground advantage and 2 'away' - Lions played 9 'home' games and 2 'away'. We then beat the side that finished top (Port) on their home ground in the prelim and won the flag on a neutral site.

(Interestingly, Geelong had 3 home games and 4 away. They finished 4th. But for Covid which forced games to hubs, Richmond and Geelong were clearly the two best sides).

And the GF was played at the GABBA… Geelong’s hope ground during COVID … ours was Metricon. The Cats at the GABBA that year prior to the GF were: 6-0:

33-point win v Kangas
59 v Saints
60 v Power
66 v Bombers
68 v Pies (SF)
40 v Lions (PF)

Keep in mind those margins were in shortened games.

Then came the GF.

It was a flag where we had no advantages and a huge disadvantage on GF day playing at the Cats nominal home ground where they’d dominated for the year.

Truly remarkable way to complete the dynasty.


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[Vassp]

Dimma marriage split or the retirement or downtrend in form of:

Rance
Houli
Astbury
Lambert
Edwards
Riewoldt
Cotchin
Grigg
Caddy

And who have we replaced those 9 x players with?

Why anyone would think there wouldn’t be a drop off post-2020 is beyond me, marriage split or not.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

did you not see the drop of form? TOO busy drumming up stats ?

 

[RichLeMonde]

Peak Cotchin doesn't come close to

My point was unless you watched every single game it's pointless making a call. Hayden Bunton Sr was universally acknowledged as the greatest player of all time. Now he's never even brought up.
Firstly stats are misleading. I'd take Daicos' 3 clearances that hit a teammate over Taranto's 6 that go anywhere, much like a lot of Cotchins. Brownlows are bullsh1t anyway Rance could play the greatest game of all time getting zero votes whilst Darcy Parish gets 3 votes based on numbers only.

Cochin, like Gary Ablett Jr, was elite at padding his stats with unnecessary cheap 1-2's regularly handballing pointlessly to flat-footed teammates then demanding it back, same as some of his dinky sideways kicks that were never going to be paid a mark because they barely went 10m. Cochin was a good player but not even close to Dusty.

His disposals were rarely damaging he'd rack up 30+ disposals but didn't really hurt opposition. Obviously he'll be hall of fame on back of a Brownlow and 3x premiership Captain. But he's held as this mythical player when he was just a good solid player. Knights and Deledio were way better players, much like Richo success eluded them and will be forgotten as great players.

Cotchin only had 1 all Australian selection his whole career.

They were fair comments earlier in his career and I once said similar things.

To say it after 2017 though?

Never.

Really unfair appraisal of the latter half of Cotch's career, IMO.

Hardwick and others from the coaching and playing group must be on record dozens of times saying we had to erase all that stat padding stuff from our game to become successful and the numbers back it up - in the 78 games through our finals era Cotch played in he went over 30 possessions only 7 times.

Hardwick used to routinely defend the low possession hauls of all our mids to the media as exactly the kind of game we were after from them - no meaningless ball movement.

Cotchin was not a stat padder in 2012.

As you say, winning the clearance or getting a linking possession could be a cheapie crab kick or ineffective handball.

BUT, the stat that tells us whether these possessions are actually effective - that is whether they actually lead to chains of possession culminating in scores is ‘score involvements’ (which coincidentally started being recorded in 2012).

In 2012, Cotchin was 14th in the league for SIs, and the only mids he was behind were S Mitchell, drug cheat Jobe, Scott Thompson, Jordan Lewis, Dayne Swan and Dayne Beams (all of whom played for top 4 teams, which makes it easier to get score involvements, while Richmond finished 12th ). Cotchin was ahead of GAJ, Pendlebury, Selwood, and Danger for SI.

For an inside mid in a shit team to be that high in SIs is unbelievable, and completely puts paid to any seagull/crab/stat padder myth.

 

[Royce Hafey]

They were fair comments earlier in his career and I once said similar things.

To say it after 2017 though?

Never.

Really unfair appraisal of the latter half of Cotch's career, IMO.

Hardwick and others from the coaching and playing group must be on record dozens of times saying we had to erase all that stat padding stuff from our game to become successful and the numbers back it up - in the 78 games through our finals era Cotch played in he went over 30 possessions only 7 times.

Hardwick used to routinely defend the low possession hauls of all our mids to the media as exactly the kind of game we were after from them - no meaningless ball movement.

Not a fair comment about 2012. He tended to do a lot of short kicks and handballs back and forth in his early period as captain. This was evident in 2013 after he injured his knee and lost all power in his kicking. It also fits in with what he's recently said about feeling that he had to lead by example and do it all himself. In 2016 the whole team were doing it, even Dusty - notice that Dusty averaged more possessions in 2016 than in his Brownlow year. But Cotchin in 2012 wasn't the captain and he didn't feel the need in that year to achieve a high disposal average. He was in that year the best evasive player I've ever seen, able to weave through traffic and then, invariably hit up a target or kick a goal.