A Lesson - Our coaches are to blame -re gameplan / structure

[TheWoodsOf72]

Last years premiers finished 7th this year. I can't believe we have been so unsuccessful and are STILL playing MORE finals games. That must really pi$$ off Bucks and his staff.

Well we should have won 2011. God knows we still had the cattle. I put it down to all the upheaval from MM.

 

[Yonchi]

My take on all this...

1 - In 1970 we beat Carlton three times and were 44 points up at half time in the GF. There is hope we can beat Hawthorn if we meet them again
2 - Luke Ball has been a massive out. Who says that with Beams and Sidebottom wouldn't be even better with him in the side
3 - Our coaching staff has been decimated and a far cry from yesteryear. They need time to grow into themselves
4 - We have played with 3-5 players a week that are not up to scratch. Finally we get a solid 22 together (though I would be happiest without Sinclair and am not sold on Fasolo) just around finals time. Of course we aren't playing as well as we could.
5 - Our field kicking still needs to improve significantly, this especially is the case when we kick out from goal.

Maybe our run has been left too late given that only in the last fortnight have we had a full team. I don't think that this points to a coaching issue

 

[OneEyed35]

The real reason we're struggling this year is that we're down on clearances, which I honestly think comes from not having Luke Ball on the bottom of every pack. It was when he joined the pies that we started dominating in that area, and despite the emergence of Beams, we're still lacking in that area. All other stats would improve if we got first use of the ball.

 

[Mark_K]

The real reason we're struggling this year is that we're down on clearances, which I honestly think comes from not having Luke Ball on the bottom of every pack. It was when he joined the pies that we started dominating in that area, and despite the emergence of Beams, we're still lacking in that area. All other stats would improve if we got first use of the ball.

Kicking effiiciency has been down, whilst being more crucial in today's game.

We can't just bomb it up the line like we use too.

We're not hitting targets, leading to turnovers and scores for the other team.

We need to get some elite kickers into this team over the offseason.

 

[forwardflanker]

Jake Nial made a pretty good point in the Sunday Age (i think) about the coaching and game plan issues we're having. Basically it was that Buckley inherited a game plan that was still considered to be the benchmark and so you can't really blame him for not making wholesale changes to the way we structured up. At the time we lost last years GF you could argue that it was as much as a result of our interrupted run in with injury and controversy as it was about Geelong strategically outmaneuvering us - hindsight is 20/20 now obv. Also having said that this gameplan is still pretty damn effective versus everyone except Hawthorn - we're just not thumping everyone like we did in 2011.

In terms of playing Hawthorn, we have to drastically change the way we play next time we come up against them. I'd advocate a superflood and hope to turn the match into a war of attrition. The one thing that has burn us time and time again is the space in which Hawthorns forwards have been able to operate in. If you chuck 18 of our 22 into their forward 50 then I think that seriously diminishes their effectiveness. Hawthorn's midfield have great contested ball players, not so much their forwards. Keeping it to a really physically taxing and low scoring game is our best chance of beating them imo. I'd go as far to say that I'd back us in if we're within a goal or so at 3/4 time.

 

[the distributer]

Heres a post i found that pretty much sums up what everyone says about mick malthouse vs nathan buckley..Enjoy. Perfect post

Missing Leon Davis, Leigh Brown, Krakour and Luke Ball for either the majority or the whole season, I think Buckley has done a better job than MM would have done.

Remember 2004/05 when we had injuries? His "genius" didn't help us then!!!!!

Buckley has unfortunately inherited a team that MM didn't leave in the best shape. Losing the unlosable GF (mental scarring), 2 key players (1 All Australian) retiring, injuries from the 1st NAB cup game and a few players whose age is catching up with them (Johnno, Taz & Dids).
Not to mention an outdated gameplan (GF 2011?), NO taggers and NO second ruckman.

I can see why Buckley was up against it from day one.

MM didn't coach with Collingwood's future in mind. Considering he SIGNED a 5 year deal, that IMHO is an a**holes absolute selfishness!!!!

MM prancing around as though he is some freakin' messiah irks me when I look at the team he left ( even though he SIGNED to stay).

NO forward planning and NO regard for the long term future of the team.

Buckley should be commended for the way he has had to re-train the players away from the 2009/10/11 gameplan. Buckley understands where football is going, unfortunately the players weren't prepared well enough by the "messiah" for the changing styles. Thats why we lost last years GF (ooohhh and the fact that he got out coached by a rookie coach).

These loses will hopefully make the players (some anyway) that MM's game style is finished.

Buy into Buckleys or stay stagnant!!!!!

GO PIES !!!!!!

Most accurate truth i have read in a long time

Geez there are some muppets here.

Since Bucks has taken over we have lost 1/3rd of our %, we have gone from 6 games inside the top 4 to making the top 4 by the skin of our teeth, our skill level can now be compared to a country reserves team, our fwd line is as bad as i've seen it for many a year, ditto our defense, but that all leads to our midfield, they have gone from the best in the comp to unaccountable downhill skiers, this has all happened since Bucks took over, make all the excuses you like guys, facts are facts, some of us just see things a little clearer than some.

 

[PieNSauce]

Geez there are some muppets here.

Since Bucks has taken over we have lost 1/3rd of our %, we have gone from 6 games inside the top 4 to making the top 4 by the skin of our teeth, our skill level can now be compared to a country reserves team, our fwd line is as bad as i've seen it for many a year, ditto our defense, but that all leads to our midfield, they have gone from the best in the comp to unaccountable downhill skiers, this has all happened since Bucks took over, make all the excuses you like guys, facts are facts, some of us just see things a little clearer than some.

lol. Sorry but that's just garbage as far as I'm concerned. Anybody who blames the coaches in the face of all of the obstacles really isn't seeing anything very clearly.

 

[Mark_K]

Geez there are some muppets here.

Since Bucks has taken over we have lost 1/3rd of our %, we have gone from 6 games inside the top 4 to making the top 4 by the skin of our teeth, our skill level can now be compared to a country reserves team, our fwd line is as bad as i've seen it for many a year, ditto our defense, but that all leads to our midfield, they have gone from the best in the comp to unaccountable downhill skiers, this has all happened since Bucks took over, make all the excuses you like guys, facts are facts, some of us just see things a little clearer than some.

Based on last years win/loss ratio, have the Hawks regressed?

 

[the distributer]

lol. Sorry but that's just garbage as far as I'm concerned. Anybody who blames the coaches in the face of all of the obstacles really isn't seeing anything very clearly.

I'm seeing things for what they are, with 2 eyes wide open, we're a shadow of our 2010-2011 selves.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Said it before and I'll say it again.

Yes, Buckley is to blame.

It's Buckley that made Sinclair take 15 minutes to kick it to an open Dale Thomas only to kick it to Rioli
It's Buckley that made Toovey skyball a pass to the smallest man on the field in blustery conditions inside defensive 50
It's Buckley that makes Swan not give two shits about jogging past 3km an hour
It's Buckley that makes Dawes drop marks
It's Buckley that makes Sidebottom slow and have terrible disposal
It's Buckley that I"m sure makes Harry O'Brien continually give away stupid free kicks
I'm also almost certain its Buckley that assures these players refuse to actually gut run and put any amount of AFL standard pressure on opposition.

This rot you guys are only JUST NOW noticing, has been happening since last year.

Go back, with open eyes and actually watch our last 2 months of 2011.

Not that different from what we've seen this year. You guys forgot the Brisbane game already? I haven't.

2011, was a damaging year for this club in more ways than most care to admit. The players have become complacent, lazy and seem content with 1 flag. Whcih I guess is the pitfall of winning a flag with a young team. Much like the Bombers of 93 that all but disappeared until 1999 when the 'babies' had grown up a bit and realised Grand Finals don't just roll around for everyone. These players were the youngest Premiers since 78. Who won that year? Hawthorn. They didn't come back into Flag contention against for about what? almost 6 years? Much like the Bombers of 93.

We're an even younger side, but managed to back up 2010 with another flag crack. This clearly has caused complacency, especially given our methods in our victories last year. This side was winning games with 1 quarter (or mostly less) of football last year against a mediocre competition. Now that everyone else has clearly stepped up, we're looking outright pedestrian.

Add to that, a horror injury run for at least 18/23 rounds of the year, combined with a completely new coaching panel trying to instill some discipline back into a lazy group, and the hardest draw in the comp and you get the result of this season.

As I've said in another thread, our players have the mental capacity of children. Their previous coach was a 'father' to them, obviously in many more ways than one. They now have a coach who assumes he's dealing with adults, but clearly isn't.

Somehow, Nathan needs to worry about making these players WANT to play good football again, and let the gameplan work itself out later. Because NO gameplan will work when the players don't really care that much.

 

[Markfs]

Lets just wait until the fat lady is singing before we bury the team or the coaches. Supporters talk about loyalty and a "never give up" attitude as something that grows on trees. It might be worthwhile if some of the big noises in this forum showed a little leadership and write things that support the team. There are times and ways to make points about how the team is playing, and one of them doesnt have to be to dump on players or coaches before the season has finished.

The so-called supporters at the game weren't any better. I heard jeering and bronx cheers when Chris Dawes got his hands on the ball. I couldnt believe it. Please tell me those were Hawk supporters!! The guy makes a comeback to some semblance of form and people are pissing on him?? Supporters??? I mean, isnt that sort of behaviour done by opposing players to try stop someone from turning their game around??

When will people realise that players play better if they are supported??????????? Look at the Adelaide coach. Notice how he has supported his players all year?? Getting the boot out and slipping it into your players doesnt help, but of course, you cant tell that to the lounge experts who come to the forum and make 50 predictions and then come back to the one that they got right and then they tell the world that they are footy experts. Pleassssssssssseee......A word from my youth just came to mind "big-noting"....says it all

 

[the distributer]

Based on last years win/loss ratio, have the Hawks regressed?

Maybe not, but they haven't fallen as far as we have , we went from beating them in a prelim last year (while we were struggling) to being unable to get within 6 goals of them even though one of their best mids withdrew hours before the game and they lost a player in the first 10 minutes, they had 13 more scoring shots than us, the scoreboard flattered us no end.

 

[Mark_K]

I'm seeing things for what they are, with 2 eyes wide open, we're a shadow of our 2010-2011 selves.

No doubt, but one person is too blame?

Coaches, i feel for them. Scapegoats by the media, fans and their own clubs.

 

[Mark_K]

Maybe not, but they haven't fallen as far as we have , we went from beating them in a prelim last year (while we were struggling) to being unable to get within 6 goals of them even though one of their best mids withdrew hours before the game and they lost a player in the first 10 minutes, they had 13 more scoring shots than us, the scoreboard flattered us no end.

Who looks like a real challenger against them though, outside of us?

Could it be that its just their time and not ours?

They're looking as dominant as we were last year through to round 22.

Remember, this team won it in 2008, sucked in 09/10, regrouped and came back strong.

Why can't we?

 

[PieNSauce]

I'm seeing things for what they are, with 2 eyes wide open, we're a shadow of our 2010-2011 selves.

The bolded bit is true but failing to recognise the myriad of clear and obvious reasons for that and lay blame with the coach is pretty closed minded and proves the lie of your opening premise.

 

[Maggie5]

Geez there are some muppets here.

this has all happened since Bucks took over, make all the excuses you like guys, facts are facts, some of us just see things a little clearer than some.

Yep there certainly are some muppets here. Love it when they quote facts, whose facts? Theirs!

 

[the distributer]

Who looks like a real challenger against them though, outside of us?

Could it be that its just their time and not ours?

They're looking as dominant as we were last year through to round 22.

Remember, this team won it in 2008, sucked in 09/10, regrouped and came back strong.

Why can't we?

No reason why we can't, i'm just mega pissed we changed coach when really the only direction we could go was down, we were at the top our game in 2011, injurys got us in the end, i still feel we would have won if ''A'' we didn't play Jolly and Reid-or ''B'' they were fit, i reckon our 2011 best would beat our 2012 best by 12 goals.

 

[Mark_K]

No reason why we can't, i'm just mega pissed we changed coach when really the only direction we could go was down, we were at the top our game in 2011, injurys got us in the end, i still feel we would have won if ''A'' we didn't play Jolly and Reid-or ''B'' they were fit, i reckon our 2011 best would beat our 2012 best by 12 goals.

Then why did they play? Who's fault is that?

Surely not our new coach....

 

[the distributer]

Yep there certainly are some muppets here. Love it when they quote facts, whose facts? Theirs!

Find 1 KPI we aren't down in then.

 

[PieNSauce]

No reason why we can't, i'm just mega pissed we changed coach when really the direction we could go was down, we were at the top our game in 2011, injurys got us in the end, i still feel we would have won if ''A'' we didn't play Jolly and Reid-or ''B'' they were fit, i reckon our 2011 best would beat our 2012 best by 12 goals.

Have you no memory at all? The coaching change was decided in 2009 when pretty much everybody realised that 10 years for a coach in charge of the best resourced club in the country is unacceptable without a single flag. I'm pissed off that we aren't going better too but I at least recognise that it has precious little to do with the coach.

 

[the distributer]

Then why did they play? Who's fault is that?

Surely not our new coach....

You can blame Mick if it suits, but i blame the players, ultimately it's them who know their bodys best.

 

[loki04]

Lets just wait until the fat lady is singing before we bury the team or the coaches. Supporters talk about loyalty and a "never give up" attitude as something that grows on trees. It might be worthwhile if some of the big noises in this forum showed a little leadership and write things that support the team. There are times and ways to make points about how the team is playing, and one of them doesnt have to be to dump on players or coaches before the season has finished.

The so-called supporters at the game weren't any better. I heard jeering and bronx cheers when Chris Dawes got his hands on the ball. I couldnt believe it. Please tell me those were Hawk supporters!! The guy makes a comeback to some semblance of form and people are pissing on him?? Supporters??? I mean, isnt that sort of behaviour done by opposing players to try stop someone from turning their game around??

When will people realise that players play better if they are supported??????????? Look at the Adelaide coach. Notice how he has supported his players all year?? Getting the boot out and slipping it into your players doesnt help, but of course, you cant tell that to the lounge experts who come to the forum and make 50 predictions and then come back to the one that they got right and then they tell the world that they are footy experts. Pleassssssssssseee......A word from my youth just came to mind "big-noting"....says it all

the majority of the bronx cheers came from Hawks supporters or so I have been told.

 

[the distributer]

Have you no memory at all? The coaching change was decided in 2009 when pretty much everybody realised that 10 years for a coach in charge of the best resourced club in the country is unacceptable without a single flag. I'm pissed off that we aren't going better too but I at least recognise that it has precious little to do with the coach.

Where was our get out clause though? remember the media saying shit, imagine if mick wins the next 2 flags, what will Eddie do then?, well he almost did win the next 2 flags, and IMO would have had a much better chance than Bucks this year.

Eddie put his ego before the club.

 

[Mark_K]

You can blame Mick if it suits, but i blame the players, ultimately it's them who know their bodys best.

Sure, but ultimately it's his call.

Why didn't he move Reid off of Hawkins?

It's easy to single out someone as the sole reason, as the scapegoat.

What's more difficult, in all walks of life let alone on the footy field, is to let each party accept their share of he blame. For whatever reason, humanity needs someone to blame.

 

[Mark_K]

Where was our get out clause though? remember the media saying shit, imagine if mick wins the next 2 flags, what will Eddie do then?, well he almost did win the next 2 flags, and IMO would have had a much better chance than Bucks this year.

Eddie put his ego before the club.

Did Mick not put his ego before the club by walking out on a deal he agreed too?