A thread on politics- have some balls and post

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The one interesting facet with Trump is that he got rid of a lot of the neocon military advisors/ex generals in his prior admin as soon as he worked them out. In hindsight not a good move because they're powerful people and got even with him as far as they could.

I see he's making noises again about clearing the decks there. Don't know why you'd telegraph your punches against these sort of people but I guess they were expecting it anyway.
 
knaf said:
Agree this paragraph is damning, if true. Not sure it validates his conclusion. Last para is cut but I isn’t the whole article debating and criticising “wokism” (whatever that may be). Author suggesting you can’t do this?

Anyway please reply in the relevant Den thread.
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I have posted similar before on woke culture in this thread, this is as concise as I can be.
__________________________________

I do think there is such a thing as extreme "woke" ideology, particularly in the USA which is where the broader Western culture eventually trickles down from.

My examples of too woke would be support for >

Puberty blockers and transition surgery for children - Tavistock clinic scandal in the UK.

Biological men in women's sport, locker rooms, change rooms - Lia Thomas was a prime example of this at a National level in the US, Riley Gains stated that Lia was strutting around the women's dressing room with fully intact male genitalia.

Collective racial guilt for sins of the past - Judge on actions and character not skin colour.

DEI is great in theory but does not work when standards are lowered and/or quotas enforced, equality of opportunity is what should be strived for and all appointments based purely on merit - Asian students being excluded even though they would be admitted if merit based. https://www.google.com/search?q=asi...I4MjA1ajBqOagCALACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
___________________________________________________

Admittedly the percentage of extreme woke would be a very small albeit very noisy minority, some in positions of influence eg. Colleges/Schools/Media. I see it in many cases being virtue signalling and condescending via being perpetually offended on behalf of another "group".

You have the same extreme minority on the right so it cuts both ways.
 
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Hollow Knight said:
Then why did you weigh in on it with your Oct 7 comment then?

Was a pretty confident statement… you abandoned it very quickly.

If you genuinely don’t care about the innocent victims on either side, that’s a pretty brazen announcement of your complete lack of empathy.



Was the Holocaust also “not our problem”?

Or do you generally decide on a genocide by genocide basis?
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Obviously well behind on here so I am not sure if it has been mentioned, but we/the Allies didn't go to war because of the Holocaust/Genocide. The Allies didn't know the true horrors of what was going on until either just before the end or after the war.
 
martinson said:
6 million Jews were fried in the ovens and millions more displaced ,homeless or starved to death . So they were given a plot of land in their traditional homeland and from 800000 people and nothing built a beautiful, powerful independent democratic state with cosmopilitan cities ,free thought for people to conduct business and have good lives.

In your world everything they've done since is wrong so much so that Arabs ,mainly, were forced to develop terror organisations that they transport around the world and that October 7 was a mere blip in an ongoing battle in which you paint Jews as basically the culprits.

In Melbourne I'm the only gentile in my street . One of the few in my neighbourhood. I observe and interract with Jews all the time.

I could make many observations but one I will make is that Melbourne is very much an anti semitic city. My kids are anti semitic because it's all they've heard in schools , higher learning places only allow one narrative , anarchist politicians spewforth on it every day , Councils whose job it is to pick up our rubbish fly Palestinian flags and hold rallies in chambers.

Jews have a lot more first hand experience of persecution than any race in the history of the world. What we're seeing now is just an extension of what transpired through most of the 20th century and before, but given impetus in this century by the rebirth of extreme anti semitism from high minded people in other independent countries whose take is nothing if not predictable.

And that's all I have to say.
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What actually gave them the right to that land considering people already lived there and had lived there since the time it was their traditional homeland? The people they displaced when forming Israel have the exact same ties to the land they have been expelled from.

What is anti-semetic about flyring a Palestinian flag on council property? You realise the Palestinians are Semites right?
 
Ahh those damn woke.

Always on about the men who want to be women and girls who want to be boys. So young too. And all those coloured, disabled, non Caucasian people they always go on about. Can't they look after themselves?

Meanwhile, on the right...


apnews.com

Oklahoma amends request for Bibles that initially appeared to match only version backed by Trump

Oklahoma has amended its request for 55,000 Bibles to be placed in public schools that initially matched a version endorsed by former President Donald Trump.
apnews.com apnews.com


www.hrw.org

Racial Discrimination in the United States

The United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination should direct the United States government to take immediate, tangible measures to dismantle structural racism in the United States, Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union said today, releasing a joint...
www.hrw.org www.hrw.org

www.pbs.org

How the rise of anti-LGBTQ+ hate and violence is impacting the community

The murders of several LGBTQ+ people and allies in recent weeks are raising alarm across the U.S. O’Shae Sibley was stabbed to death in Brooklyn after police said he confronted a group who made homophobic slurs and Laura Ann Carleton was killed in California for apparently refusing to remove a...
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org

www.stlouisfed.org

The State of U.S. Wealth Inequality

An examination of racial, generational and educational wealth inequality using quarterly data that are based on average household wealth in the United States.
www.stlouisfed.org www.stlouisfed.org



I would (un)happily argue that the influence of the church's right wing demographic has far more influence than any "woke" organisation. It's easy to point to it's influence on so many issues.... and it's screaming hypocrisy on so many of them. Such a safe haven for the evil in the world and with such influence. The Church and State have never been more intertwined than now.

I would argue the number of right wing homophobic or racist vocalists far outweigh those pushing unjustified or unwarranted puberty blockers or surgery. By a very very long way.

I would argue that the vast majority of those who think that not lifting up or helping those in need have never had the need themselves. That life altering access to basic services should be reserved for the better off. Healthcare and social services are a waste of money and should be reserved for those can pay.

The rights extremists hide in plain site. It's popularized by the media, by worship channels on TV, by people like Elon Musk and Geoff Bezoz, with such undue influence who are held up as role models. It's driven by wealth and self interest. It's in your face but you just don't realise it.

Blaming the woke just baffles me. It's a fallback with such little substance it's laughable. The fight the "woke" have is often on behalf of people who can't fight for themselves. For such tiny minorities that literally affect very few others. Yet somehow every ill in the world is thier fault.

The safe harbours of the right contribute so much to division and hatred that we have become numb to it.

That's what we should be worried about.
 
p4p1 said:
What actually gave them the right to that land considering people already lived there and had lived there since the time it was their traditional homeland? The people they displaced when forming Israel have the exact same ties to the land they have been expelled from.

What is anti-semetic about flyring a Palestinian flag on council property? You realise the Palestinians are Semites right?
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I thought a significant number legally purchased the land from the Ottoman Empire. I might be wrong, certainly no expert on history. That still doesn't give the right to self proclaim a new country, but a fair bit of that has gone on over the last couple of hundred years. Mainly based on religious lines.
 
It's not been a good decade for fans of competently executed coups, frankly.

Sometimes your revolutionary invasion force get captured by fishermen and wind up covered in their own pee, sometimes you wind up spend years crying because one of your own tased themselves in the groin so hard he died, sometimes even your own party votes against your coup and then the soldiers you send to enforce martial law get rotated.
 
Jivlain said:
It's not been a good decade for fans of competently executed coups, frankly.

Sometimes your revolutionary invasion force get captured by fishermen and wind up covered in their own pee, sometimes you wind up spend years crying because one of your own tased themselves in the groin so hard he died, sometimes even your own party votes against your coup and then the soldiers you send to enforce martial law get rotated.
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That's what I can be when I grow up. A Competent Coup Executor. Seems like I'll be able to name my price basically. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Grasshopper17 said:
That's what I can be when I grow up. A Competent Coup Executor. Seems like I'll be able to name my price basically. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Time was, it was a stable career in the CIA, you put in a couple decades competently overthrowing democratic governments and then when you retire they give you a firm handshake and a nice watch. They don't have the sauce anymore, probably because of woke I guess.
 
You what really worries me...

I've been interested in politics all my life. And for most of it, while always a moderate, I gravitated to the right.

I wanted small government, I believed that small business drove the economy and contributed to the well being of society. I believed in the rights of the individual to live their lives. I wanted efficiency in the way our taxes were spent. I dislike duplication and waste. I understood there was more to our country than just capital cities.

You know, the things the conservative side of politics stood for.

Oh wait... I still believe in those things :think: And yet I find myself veering more and more to the left.

I haven't changed my beliefs - I've certainly added more - but the shift the right has taken to the extreme terrifies me. I don't see too many of my values lining up with theirs any more - either here or abroad.

As a white, rural constituent, self employed, paying my fair share of taxes, having to travel to see specialists or a real Emergency Department, I should be a walk up starter for the right.

But as someone who is also part of a minority, who just wants to live in peace and not be the target of a political argument, who understands that many struggle even though I no longer do, who values diversity in community, in population, in thought and beliefs, I have never been so disillusioned.

Both sides of politics need to understand that I am far from alone.

Hot button topics, often so irrelevant to most, have dominated discussion. They have polarised and divided discourse. Using triviality to try and create separation has meant logical, needed debate has gone only to be replaced by point scoring.

Using the marginalised and vulnerable as political pawns is now so common they are really the only characteristics of the 2 sides of politics we recognise.

I have voted differently in each of the last 3 elections. After a lifetime of only ever voting 1 way.

I wrestle with my societal beliefs and my economic ones. I watch and read and learn as much as I can because I think it's my responsibility to do so.

And maybe it's my "wokeness" but I wonder where we are headed. I wonder about the desperate naivety of people who swallow the political bullshit because they need their lives to improve. I wonder about people like Apollo Moon, who end up entangled in this mess, and for who it all becomes too much.

We need to do better. We NEED our politics and our politicians to do better. Both sides need to get back to understanding that their job is to better ALL of society, not just those who agree with them.

Sorry for ramble...
 
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notliondown said:
I wanted small government, I believed that small business drove the economy and contributed to the well being of society. I believed in the rights of the individual to live their lives. I wanted efficiency in the way our taxes were spent. I dislike duplication and waste. I understood there was more to our country than just capital cities.
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Well yes who doesn't. OTOH the reality is also that Government needs to have some involvement to ensure a fairer society for ALL.

Which means some things need to be government run - I would suggest Public Health, Water, Education, Emergency Services, Power Generation, Market Management etc perhaps Rail. No private company will ever put real infrastructure investment into non profit making ventures before next year's or quarter's profit / CEO wage bonus.

To my mind government is not best when run by the top end of the town. You therefore end up with the least horrid option which is centre / left. At least care for ordinary folk is an aim, not just platitudes.

What I find bizarre is the ability of the right to con even more the working class (ie all workers) to support it against it's own interest as being left wing is some "trendy intellectual elite".

The main weapon is in the guise of "efficient" taxes which is usually just massive tax cuts for the extremely wealthy and bugger all for the majority. A few hundred or even thousand per year in tax cuts for the majority make very little difference to their overall quality of life when compared to the massive amounts they have to pay on rent / mortgages etc. etc.

What currently really pisses me off is the massive rort in tricked up 4x4 utes at over $100K++ paying no FBT or LCT as they are "commercial". Meanwhile the whole concept of LCT is a joke given that the Liberals gutted the local car industry which no longer exists to protect.
 

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funny to see the maga base turn on elon and trump over immigration. its a shame the people most committed to voting for these right wing populist politicians dont realise that they truly are useful idiots - the guy you are voting for does not share your interests.
 
western royboy said:
Think he’s allegedly a big Ketamine man
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You only have to watch the footage of the inauguration to see that... Bezos was off his face as well and let's not mention Trump Jr "cleaning his teeth" again in full public view.

Bloody hell the similarities to 90 years ago are shocking... In every way. Half of German society was off it's face on Meth and the Oligarcy was in full swing. Fascism was ignored and people pretended shit didn't happen or found ways to justify it.

It saddens, angers and terrifies me that despite all of the information in the world being at our finger tips we have learned nothing from our past.
 
notliondown said:
You only have to watch the footage of the inauguration to see that... Bezos was off his face as well and let's not mention Trump Jr "cleaning his teeth" again in full public view.

Bloody hell the similarities to 90 years ago are shocking... In every way. Half of German society was off it's face on Meth and the Oligarcy was in full swing. Fascism was ignored and people pretended shit didn't happen or found ways to justify it.

It saddens, angers and terrifies me that despite all of the information in the world being at our finger tips we have learned nothing from our past.
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Oligarcy has been in full swing in the USA for a long time. This is nothing new.
 
notliondown said:
You only have to watch the footage of the inauguration to see that... Bezos was off his face as well and let's not mention Trump Jr "cleaning his teeth" again in full public view.

Bloody hell the similarities to 90 years ago are shocking... In every way. Half of German society was off it's face on Meth and the Oligarcy was in full swing. Fascism was ignored and people pretended shit didn't happen or found ways to justify it.

It saddens, angers and terrifies me that despite all of the information in the world being at our finger tips we have learned nothing from our past.
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And yet they are likely to do a better job than the other side. Scary world.
 

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A thread on politics- have some balls and post

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