A thread on politics- have some balls and post

[p4p1]

And yet they are likely to do a better job than the other side. Scary world.

I dunno mate, tearing up policies that help people afford medication as one of the first things you do, is not something I would consider being a better job.
Attempting to rename the gulf of Mexico and mount Denali isn't something I would consider as being worthwhile either.
The new Department of Government Efficiency - being run by Elon Musk doesn't seem like it will be a good idea. Upping government efficiency is great but slashing regulations which cost companies money that they don't like to spend is only going to hurt consumers while not changing the cost of anything, just upping profits.
Elon Musk doing the Seig Heil 2 x during a US inauguration is beyond comprehension.
Prioiritising US interests in all foreign policy, while being their right, is going to lead to even more corruption and back scratching.
The order that makes it easier to remove federal workers in policy roles if they perform poorly or act against policies, seems fine on the surface but it would also remove a huge amount of worker protection and allow the federal government to fire workers who don't align with its policies. I hate to say this because I don't like how often he has been compared to Hitler but this one is straight out of the Hitler playbook.

I don't disagree or even have a strong opinion on most of the executive orders that are public but these ones should have people worried IMO.

 

[martinson]

I dunno mate, tearing up policies that help people afford medication as one of the first things you do, is not something I would consider being a better job.
Attempting to rename the gulf of Mexico and mount Denali isn't something I would consider as being worthwhile either.
The new Department of Government Efficiency - being run by Elon Musk doesn't seem like it will be a good idea. Upping government efficiency is great but slashing regulations which cost companies money that they don't like to spend is only going to hurt consumers while not changing the cost of anything, just upping profits.
Elon Musk doing the Seig Heil 2 x during a US inauguration is beyond comprehension.
Prioiritising US interests in all foreign policy, while being their right, is going to lead to even more corruption and back scratching.
The order that makes it easier to remove federal workers in policy roles if they perform poorly or act against policies, seems fine on the surface but it would also remove a huge amount of worker protection and allow the federal government to fire workers who don't align with its policies. I hate to say this because I don't like how often he has been compared to Hitler but this one is straight out of the Hitler playbook.

I don't disagree or even have a strong opinion on most of the executive orders that are public but these ones should have people worried IMO.

Just on the federal workers it is actually the duty of the federal workers to implement the policies of the Government of the day. They don't have to agree with it . What they think about it isn't in their job specs.

As far as hiring and firing public servants you only have to look as far as Andrews in Victoria to see how that works in full swing. At a Senior level Governments of all persuasions have been doing this since forever. In Australia these days the vast majority are on contracts that have an end date.

Nonetheless everything Trump does is going to be scrutinised and analysed in a demeaning way by the many who don't agree with him. That's their right I suppose but I'm not looking forward to the next 4 years because of all the hoo ha and if the Dems were half competent they could've done something about it when they were in Office.

 

[notliondown]

Oligarcy has been in full swing in the USA for a long time. This is nothing new.

And here lets not kid ourselves.

It's just that it's never been so blatantly rubbed in peoples faces - or wallets - until now.

I just don't know who keeps all of these shit stains in line in any meaningful way or with any sort of consequence.

 

[notliondown]

Some of his executive orders are mind blowing...

The man just wound back 50 years of equal rights for anyone other than a white, straight male.
He gave complete pricing control back to the pharmaceutical companies and removed pricing control on things like insulin.
He removed the right of people born in the USA to be classed as citizens.
He has removed ALL safeguards to allow drilling or fracking wherever the energy companies like.
The mass deportations including some who came lawfully under Biden.
The removal of worker protections.

Add in the more subjective ones...

The withdrawal from WHO
The withdrawal from PARIS

Now the suggestion of defunding FEMA!!!

Worse still...
The pardoning of convicted criminals who assaulted police and admitted doing so - only for him to go "oh really? Are you sure?? I'll look into that because I love the police, no other President loves the police more than me..." DUCK OFF YOU IMBECILE YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU SIGNED!!!

The side shows like the Gulf of Mexico aren't even worth discussing...

I can't wait for Canada to turn off North America's energy supply in early Feb when his idiotic tariffs come in. I really don't think it's an idle threat either. The withdrawal of lumber, steel, minerals will cripple the USA quickly and be a blunt axe to use in retaliation.

Meanwhile I'm waiting to see evidence of cheaper eggs, lower feul pricing, the end of the Gaza and Ukraine wars and whatever other bullshizen he promised on day 1 but can't deliver.

All the while he releases a bitcoin that makes him billions overnight at the cost of his sycophants and lets Musk dictate policy at will while Nazi saluting and receiving rapturous applause for it.

But what I'm most blown away by, is that all of this stuff is more spoken about by individuals on social media than mainstream news. Like the US news, Australian news is whitewashing so much it's crazy.

Surely history can't repeat.... surely...

 

[martinson]

And here lets not kid ourselves.

It's just that it's never been so blatantly rubbed in peoples faces - or wallets - until now.

I just don't know who keeps all of these shit stains in line in any meaningful way or with any sort of consequence.

The fact is that the majority of people in the Western world , and in fact all over the world have better lives than they've ever had.

We just have a whole lot more people now .

Most Western Governments have served their countries well for a long time. Even the incompetent ones haven't stuffed up to the extent that life is still not full of possibilities and opportunity for anyone who has the determination and motivation. The proportion of those who don't and are in dire need is the same as it ever was.

We had a worldwide pandemic that in previous eras might have knocked out a generation of wealth creation and completely obliterated the one coming through. But they managed to prop things up quicksmart and though the full repercussions are still being worked through it's as good an outcome that you could hope for.

The test for Trump will be a likely very significant correction in markets and a devaluation of people's assets sometime this year or at the latest in 2026 which could steamroll his agenda. And have most people unhappy and blaming him.

So don't worry you'll probably get the Government you were hoping for in 2028.

 

[martinson]

Some of his executive orders are mind blowing...

The man just wound back 50 years of equal rights for anyone other than a white, straight male.
He gave complete pricing control back to the pharmaceutical companies and removed pricing control on things like insulin.
He removed the right of people born in the USA to be classed as citizens.
He has removed ALL safeguards to allow drilling or fracking wherever the energy companies like.
The mass deportations including some who came lawfully under Biden.
The removal of worker protections.

Add in the more subjective ones...

The withdrawal from WHO
The withdrawal from PARIS

Now the suggestion of defunding FEMA!!!

Worse still...
The pardoning of convicted criminals who assaulted police and admitted doing so - only for him to go "oh really? Are you sure?? I'll look into that because I love the police, no other President loves the police more than me..." DUCK OFF YOU IMBECILE YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU SIGNED!!!

The side shows like the Gulf of Mexico aren't even worth discussing...

I can't wait for Canada to turn off North America's energy supply in early Feb when his idiotic tariffs come in. I really don't think it's an idle threat either. The withdrawal of lumber, steel, minerals will cripple the USA quickly and be a blunt axe to use in retaliation.

Meanwhile I'm waiting to see evidence of cheaper eggs, lower feul pricing, the end of the Gaza and Ukraine wars and whatever other bullshizen he promised on day 1 but can't deliver.

All the while he releases a bitcoin that makes him billions overnight at the cost of his sycophants and lets Musk dictate policy at will while Nazi saluting and receiving rapturous applause for it.

But what I'm most blown away by, is that all of this stuff is more spoken about by individuals on social media than mainstream news. Like the US news, Australian news is whitewashing so much it's crazy.

Surely history can't repeat.... surely...

You're completely overreacting mate.

He won the popular vote . That's all there is to it

Why not sit back and see what the outcomes are to whatever's troubling you.

I think everyone was saying the same thing last time he got in and he would've walked in with a vastly increased majority had covid not come along.

 

[notliondown]

So don't worry you'll probably get the Government you were hoping for in 2028.

The sad part is that more of the same wasn't the right answer either - but clearly a less dangerous one for a lot of people.

Part of Trumps appeal is he wants to tear the system down. And in a lot of ways he's right.

But his priorities in doing so are what makes him wrong. He favours the few over the many, he creates division instead of harmony and puts self interest above all else.

By all means tear the system down. It's far from perfect... it's not awful but it needs some major tweaking.

Just remember that 75 million people put him there not just the 5 Billionaires in the front row.

 

[notliondown]

You're completely overreacting mate.

He won the popular vote . That's all there is to it

Why not sit back and see what the outcomes are to whatever's troubling you.

I think everyone was saying the same thing last time he got in and he would've walked in with a vastly increased majority had covid not come along.

I hope you are right, but fear you are not. My life has taught me differently to yours... which is what makes the world go around.

I saw what hatred he created for people last time that largely went unnoticed but created the environment for what's happening now. With no checks and balances and both houses this time will be worse.

But again, for most it will go unnoticed.

 

[martinson]

I hope you are right, but fear you are not. My life has taught me differently to yours... which is what makes the world go around.

I saw what hatred he created for people last time that largely went unnoticed but created the environment for what's happening now. With no checks and balances and both houses this time will be worse.

But again, for most it will go unnoticed.

He obviously didn't create enough hatred for people to not want him back.

To think he'd want to put himself through what he's been through the last few years at his age to enrich himself and his mates is ,respectfully ,ludicrous. These people don't need the hassle of being in Government to make themselves richer if that's what they want

I'm quite hopeful that he already realises he has 4 years left if he's lucky and he's genuine in the path forward for his country ,rightly or wrongly. Sooner or later it'll be out of his hands.

Where we are now is what some economists call a Fourth Turning. Where countries get into debt , big shifts in voter sentiment and ideas , the sort of conditions that precipitated the Great Depression and WW2 ( not to panic but something's gotta give ) . Whatever Trump does might be symptomatic but it's not influential in the course of history.

 

[briztoon]

He obviously didn't create enough hatred for people to not want him back.

Or he garnered enough likes from all the redneck hillbillies and racist idiots across america. Make America Great White again.

To think he'd want to put himself through what he's been through the last few years at his age to enrich himself and his mates is ,respectfully ,ludicrous. These people don't need the hassle of being in Government to make themselves richer if that's what they want

Come on. It removes any possibility of him doing time.

I'm quite hopeful that he already realises he has 4 years left if he's lucky and he's genuine in the path forward for his country ,rightly or wrongly. Sooner or later it'll be out of his hands.

Where we are now is what some economists call a Fourth Turning. Where countries get into debt , big shifts in voter sentiment and ideas , the sort of conditions that precipitated the Great Depression and WW2 ( not to panic but something's gotta give ) . Whatever Trump does might be symptomatic but it's not influential in the course of history.

 

[martinson]

Or he garnered enough likes from all the redneck hillbillies and racist idiots across america. Make America Great White again.

Come on. It removes any possibility of him doing time.

You're looking at it totally from your perspective if you take a negative view on whatever involves Trump.

He won the popular vote . His most conclusive winning demographic was native Americans.

The most unedifying perspective in political discourse is the one who totally denigrates a particular candidate and then when that doesn't work out blame it on the people who voted for him/her.

Btw he was never going to jail.

 

[briztoon]

You're looking at it totally from your perspective if you take a negative view on whatever involves Trump.

He won the popular vote . His most conclusive winning demographic was native Americans.

The most unedifying perspective in political discourse is the one who totally denigrates a particular candidate and then when that doesn't work out blame it on the people who voted for him/her.

Btw he was never going to jail.

My view on Trump is that he's a misogynistic racist who only has his self interest at heart.

All of that is proven.

That was before he ran for the presidency. Nothing has changed.

That people are willing to defend such a person, or vote for him, speaks poorly about those people.

 

[dlanod]

Not hugely interested in debating politics on the Internet in general but...

He won the popular vote . His most conclusive winning demographic was native Americans.

...this made my internal sceptic sit up and go "really?"

I'd be very curious where you're pulling that from. From what I can see (doing my own research, etc) there was a fairly unrepresentative exit poll published early on but follow-up figures with more realistic distributions of Native Americans across the rural/urban divide shows the far more common Democratic lean for the group. Trump overperformed compared to your average Republican, but I can't find non-exit poll numbers saying he won the group alone, let alone conclusively.

 

[martinson]

My view on Trump is that he's a misogynistic racist who only has his self interest at heart.

All of that is proven.

That was before he ran for the presidency. Nothing has changed.

That people are willing to defend such a person, or vote for him, speaks poorly about those people.

So now you're having a crack at someone who doesn't have a totally negative view on him. Basically referring to their character.

It's attitudes like this that have landed the latte left in a world of pain.

 

[Grasshopper17]

The test for Trump will be a likely very significant correction in markets and a devaluation of people's assets sometime this year or at the latest in 2026 which could steamroll his agenda. And have most people unhappy and blaming him.

You've been commenting along these lines for a while. How long have you been subscribed to Harry Dent's newsletter?

 

[martinson]

Not hugely interested in debating politics on the Internet in general but...

...this made my internal sceptic sit up and go "really?"

I'd be very curious where you're pulling that from. From what I can see (doing my own research, etc) there was a fairly unrepresentative exit poll published early on but follow-up figures with more realistic distributions of Native Americans across the rural/urban divide shows the far more common Democratic lean for the group. Trump overperformed compared to your average Republican, but I can't find non-exit poll numbers saying he won the group alone, let alone conclusively.

I actually heard it on CNN of all places the day after the election and a leftist academic was explaining that the Dems had completely ignored the needs of native Americans in the two particular states that he was talking about , and that they were living in complete poverty with very limited access to medical requirements etc. resulting in native Americans registering a protest vote (his reading of it ) and giving Trump the most support of any demographic in those states where native Americans were most prevalent.

So yes I haven't looked at across the board numbers and it was very surprising to me.

 

[martinson]

You've been commenting along these lines for a while. How long have you been subscribed to Harry Dent's newsletter?

Ha ha.

Harry Dent's a numbskull.

But a broken clock......

It's just basic common sense. The markets are at extreme ATH's with record valuations and countries are indebted up to the eyeballs. It could still go on longer than anyone is prepared for. They'll do all they can to keep the USD down but if you see the USD and bond yields go off together look out.

It's all fine though. When the financial world implodes again they'll have no choice but to launch money printing on a scale that'll make the covid years look like a blimp. And after a year or two everyone will be back on track and the balls will be kept rolling in the air.

Since you asked, if an implosion does come and everything capitulates get into real things , copper ,PM's and all the commodities that will be needed to kick start the economy. And the new economy if that's still a thing.

 

[briztoon]

So now you're having a crack at someone who doesn't have a totally negative view on him. Basically referring to their character.

It's attitudes like this that have landed the latte left in a world of pain.

Having a crack at who?

Trump is a bigot. Some of his actions as President are going to have moraly negative impacts on some Americans. His presidency is going to embolden the right wing nutjobs. How the **** is there not more outcry that his largest financial backer performed a nazi salute on stage. Twice, just in case there was some ambiguity about the initial salute.

He might achieve some good. Peace for Ukraine without it losing too much land.

But the good doesn't outweigh the bad that will occur.


Better candidates on both sides of politics, if they existed, could achieve all the "good" Trump might achieve, without pulling the USA out of the WHO, Paris agreement, allow unfettered oil exploration and fracking in the USA, etc.



You put a racist in charge, expect some racist sh!t. You put a climate change denier in charge, expect some sh!t that's going to negatively impact the environment at micro and macro level. You put an antivaxer in charge, expect some shit that's going to negatively impact the health of the nation.

Trump is all about profits before everything else. Doesn't care if that negatively impacts his own nation or sections of it.

Being in charge sometimes means self interest needs to take a back seat for the greater good.


I don't know what's going to happen. No one does. There are going to be some unintended consequences from Trumps administration, both locally for the USA and globally. My inclination is that they are going to be of the negative variety for most people.


But history has shown us, put bigots incharge, and bad things happen to sections of society that are perceived as outsiders or non mainstream or non conformists. And most often, those people are innocent of everything else, except being the same as the person in charge.

 

[martinson]

Having a crack at who?

Trump is a bigot. Some of his actions as President are going to have moraly negative impacts on some Americans. His presidency is going to embolden the right wing nutjobs. How the **** is there not more outcry that his largest financial backer performed a nazi salute on stage. Twice, just in case there was some ambiguity about the initial salute.

He might achieve some good. Peace for Ukraine without it losing too much land.

But the good doesn't outweigh the bad that will occur.


Better candidates on both sides of politics, if they existed, could achieve all the "good" Trump might achieve, without pulling the USA out of the WHO, Paris agreement, allow unfettered oil exploration and fracking in the USA, etc.



You put a racist in charge, expect some racist sh!t. You put a climate change denier in charge, expect some sh!t that's going to negatively impact the environment at micro and macro level. You put an antivaxer in charge, expect some shit that's going to negatively impact the health of the nation.

Trump is all about profits before everything else. Doesn't care if that negatively impacts his own nation or sections of it.

Being in charge sometimes means self interest needs to take a back seat for the greater good.


I don't know what's going to happen. No one does. There are going to be some unintended consequences from Trumps administration, both locally for the USA and globally. My inclination is that they are going to be of the negative variety for most people.


But history has shown us, put bigots incharge, and bad things happen to sections of society that are perceived as outsiders or non mainstream or non conformists. And most often, those people are innocent of everything else, except being the same as the person in charge.

History shows that it doesn't matter who the Government is in Western democracies , economically living standards rise over time and social progress occurs.

Seeing you've completely made up your mind about what's going to happen now that Trump gets another turn you can only expect to be pleasantly surprised from here .

So just sit back and see what unfolds.

 

[martinson]

Only reading about the Musk Nazi salute I just had a look for myself.

Well that was weird. Fwiiw Musk's a bit of a tool who seeks to provoke at every opportunity when on the world stage . To me he looked like he was about to take off into space ( on something ?? ) and got physically carried away. But no doubt about it I wouldn't criticise anyone who interpreted that as a Nazi salute and that's not good. And on the balance of probabilities whether he intended it or not he was definitely seeking to draw outrage in a provocative way.

The Musk on stage is light years away from the quietly spoken ,incisive and intelligent Musk when doing one on one interviews. I guess like many self made geniuses he's psycho.

I don't think the Donald/Musk thing will last in its current form and I hope it doesn't.

 

[notliondown]

I actually heard it on CNN of all places the day after the election and a leftist academic was explaining that the Dems had completely ignored the needs of native Americans in the two particular states that he was talking about , and that they were living in complete poverty with very limited access to medical requirements etc. resulting in native Americans registering a protest vote (his reading of it ) and giving Trump the most support of any demographic in those states where native Americans were most prevalent.

So yes I haven't looked at across the board numbers and it was very surprising to me.

Those same people said he also won the black vote - which he did not.

 

[SizeMatters]

the left are ingrained with simp culture. Some make valid arguments but that’s all it is - just chatter. Where were they when it mattered? How could these simps let Trump waltz in for a second term?

 

[notliondown]

Unfortunately this confirms what seems to be a really common theme at the moment...

There are Republican voters all over now dealing withe FAFO factor because too often they cruised along without doing any research for themselves.

Like the Texan mothers shocked Trump is defunding and closing schools - which he said he would do.
Like lower and middle class tax payers working out they are going to pay more tax not less under Trump.
Like the thousands, including the man himself, who somehow think foreign countries pay tariffs.
Like the LGBTQ Republicans who just had their rights stripped.
Like Caitlen Jenner who's a massive Trump supporter being told she no longer has a gender.

The FAFO factor is off the scale. So many... so so many it's scary, just assumed he would makes things better for them with no research, no critical thinking, no scrutiny.

There's this ridiculous blind faith that things won't be worse under Trump. Things can only get better. Guess what. You're wrong. And it's taken 2 days to prove it.

Find a way to interact with those in the States NOW. In virtually real time. See the remorse for yourself from his supporters. See those who voted for him realise they are already worse off. See those people finally understand what a tariff is.

Find a way to see independent sources clarify facts and details not talked about here. See direct news feeds, analysis and FACTS in near real time.

DO SOME RESEARCH.

Sitting idly by in blissful ignorance because that's how things were always done doesn't cut it. Throw away lines like "they are all the same" don't apply here. Waiting for the sky to fall in before getting concerned will just be a little late.

If you did you would see the Mexican President in an incredible speech stare down Trump. You would see the Panamanian one do the same. Canada's threats are not idle and everyday that goes by confirms it. The EU has done the same with his threat to NATA and Greenland essentially told him to DUCK off.

The rest of the world and I would guess more than 50% of Americans see the danger the man is.

My social media which I have deliberately made as independent as I can, over flows with Americans fearing the next 4 years. Unfortunately from the work I have done over months and months I can see why.

 

[briztoon]

History shows that it doesn't matter who the Government is in Western democracies , economically living standards rise over time and social progress occurs.

Seeing you've completely made up your mind about what's going to happen now that Trump gets another turn you can only expect to be pleasantly surprised from here .

So just sit back and see what unfolds.

I don't know what's going to happen.

I do believe many of his policies or agendas are "bad" for the environment, for healthcare, socially and for equality. That's different to making my mind up on what he's going to do.

I believe he's disreputable person.

You mentioned social progress. I believe he's demonstrated he wants to wind some of that back.

You've also mentioned economics, without addressing any of the issues I've mentioned. The character of the individual, and how that shapes many of his policies. In fact, it appears you're quite unwilling to discuss that side of Trump, and whether the character of a person reflects on those that vote for him.

Again, my main "issues" with Trump lay in the type of person he is, and how that influences his agenda.

 

[notliondown]

the left are ingrained with simp culture. Some make valid arguments but that’s all it is - just chatter. Where were they when it mattered? How could these simps let Trump waltz in for a second term?

Yup. They need to share a very large chunk of responsibility for him winning. I fear they won't learn the lesson.