Abbott Leadership challenge - "Et tu, Turnbull?" - 14/9/15

[SonOfurX]

My mates in the Labor Party are shitting themselves; they knew Abbott wouldn't win, but they've got no confidence that Shorten can challenge Turnbull.

If they go to the election with Bill, they'll get smashed.

Outside of Shorten, what are their options?

 

[SonOfurX]

This is now our fifth PM in six years.

Gillard replaces Rudd
Rudd replaces Gillard
Abbott wins election
Turnbull replaces Abbott

Now, what if next year, the ALP win and Bill Shorten becomes PM? That is 6 PMS in seven years.

Plus, remember, that for three weeks in 2010, we had no government at all.

We are becoming a laughing stock of the world, and have the political instability of a third world country.

Of the first five changes I listed, only two were by an actual election of the people.

We are a laughing stock. Other countries are laughing at how dysfunctional Australia has become. Nevertheless, this dysfunction is a representation of the broader Australian public. I don't expect we'll get back to stable governments anytime soon. The country is in disarray, has been for quite some time.

 

[evo]

Rubbish. How many front pages has he had like these?

LMAO!

 

[Gough]

We are a laughing stock. Other countries are laughing at how dysfunctional Australia has become. Nevertheless, this dysfunction is a representation of the broader Australian public. I don't expect we'll get back to stable governments anytime soon. The country is in disarray, has been for quite some time.

Explain to me how this dysfunction is indicative of broader Australian society?

 

[evo]

I suppose, Laurie Oakes was interesting last night. He sort of shrugged and said "Well its the Westminster system - what is the point of having power if you don't have to fight for it" which is fair enough. I just think on balance its bad for the polity because we need some long range decision making - you don't want the PM to be frozen in fear of two bad polls and leadership speculation

yeah, it's all just bullshit poll-politics these days. No substance to any of them.

 

[CD Xbow]

This is now our fifth PM in six years.

Gillard replaces Rudd
Rudd replaces Gillard
Abbott wins election
Turnbull replaces Abbott

Now, what if next year, the ALP win and Bill Shorten becomes PM? That is 6 PMS in seven years.

Plus, remember, that for three weeks in 2010, we had no government at all.

We are becoming a laughing stock of the world, and have the political instability of a third world country.

Of the first five changes I listed, only two were by an actual election of the people.

We are a laughing stock. Other countries are laughing at how dysfunctional Australia has become. Nevertheless, this dysfunction is a representation of the broader Australian public. I don't expect we'll get back to stable governments anytime soon. The country is in disarray, has been for quite some time.

Rubbish. We have shown is how inordinately fond of Prime Ministers we are. We love them. We can't get enough of them! For our sake, I hope President Turncoat works out better than the Budgie Smuggler.

 

[Pessimistic]

This is now our fifth PM in six years.

Gillard replaces Rudd
Rudd replaces Gillard
Abbott wins election
Turnbull replaces Abbott

Now, what if next year, the ALP win and Bill Shorten becomes PM? That is 6 PMS in seven years.

Plus, remember, that for three weeks in 2010, we had no government at all.

We are becoming a laughing stock of the world, and have the political instability of a third world country.

Of the first five changes I listed, only two were by an actual election of the people.

That three weeks was fantastic. Maybe we could get it enshrined in the constitutio

 

[Crankyhawk]

It's always a party. Only those with no idea would weigh up their vote on leader only. The leader, the party policies and your views of your local member all come into it.

The parties are indistinguishable and aren't accountable to actually enact the policies they promise.

So in the end it comes down to individual charisma. Or for the more cynical like myself, rubbing out sitting members to 1) deny them pension and 2) make seat more marginal to benefit from pork barrelling.

 

[SonOfurX]

Explain to me how this dysfunction is indicative of broader Australian society?

Take a look around Gough. An example in point the media, not only in politics, but in Sport in Australia, they are unethical, unaccountable, and they are an embarrassment to the country. Like our politics, the media are a laughing stock in America - especially over the Hayne coverage. The country is in disarray, we have a drug and alcohol problem, and an underlying tall poppy syndrome.

 

[Lebbo73]

I'll wait until the next campaign begins next year or whenever Turnbull calls the next election & just what policies he will put forward before I pass judgment, just the fact we got rid of Abbott will do in the meantime.

Might upset some but I hope he will look at righting the wrong that JG done in regards to single parents.

No one in their right mind would encourage single women to fall pregnant because of the possible financial inducements of doing so!

 

[swingdog]

Take a look around Gough. An example in point the media, not only in politics, but in Sport in Australia, they are unethical, unaccountable, and they are an embarrassment to the country. Like our politics, the media are a laughing stock in America - especially over the Hayne coverage. The country is in disarray, we have a drug and alcohol problem, and an underlying tall poppy syndrome.

What's new?

Our media has always been a laughing stock.
We've always had drug and alcohol problems (Rum Corps anyone?).
We've always had a go at tall poppies.

But, we're not in disarray. We're one of the safest and richest democracies in the world. Take your focus off parliamentary hi-jinks and look at the bigger picture. So, we've had a few prime ministers in a few years, so what? Belgium had no government for 589 days back at the turn of the decade and worked fine. Everyone cites Italy's appalling record of churning through leaders from 1945, but it still grew to be the sixth largest economy in the world. Perhaps, politicians aren't as important as everyone thinks they are.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

A day on. Reading this Fred, freds on other sites, listening to radio/tailback. I think the problem with politics in Australia, are now the knuckleheads that vote.

I mean. How many people have said they'll vote liberal now that Turnbull is in? Based on what, how he expresses himself? How superficial can "you" all be?

Bishop is now deputy pm! Wtf is that??? Also ******* "Scot Mo" is now even more powerful, and germ Payne still there! It's still the same pile of shit of a liberal party you'll be voting for!

Kelly o'dwyer and Michaelia cash are expected to be promoted? Geesh!

Then 400 of you quote GordonT, patronisingly telling how about the electoral process. When he was bang on about how people vote in elections here.

I'm actually now more uncertain about Australia than I was a day ago

 

[Northalives]

And Johnny Howard in his own presser admits something he's been accused of since Tampa: "My operating principle is to keep Labor out of government."

PMs should serve Australia first, not act in a way which they think will make life the hardest for their opponents.

No no no no no! Honest John was actually being completely honest this time.

The whole concept behind the "liberal" party's existence is nothing more than being ANTI-LABO(U)R. The "liberal" Party are an "anti" party representing the "big-end-of-town", mining corporations, bankers, big employers and any other organisation one cares to mention who has a vested interest in being able to exploit a section or sections of the community to make profits. The more exploitation one can get away with, the more the profits: pure and simple.

The trick for the "liberal" party, is being able to convince the ones that it seeks to subdue that they are "better off" under them!

For example, (one of the many), the GST commercial showing chains being broken as if the GST was going to set people free and all along, the GST was put in place only to relieve the tax burden of the already well off and transfer that burden over to those that could least afford it and in effect, putting the vast majority of people in irons for the rest of their born natural so the minority could get more cash in their pockets? Now we've got the same lazy, moronic "born-to-rule" bastards telling us that it's good for us, the wider community, to allow the capitalist pig-dogs to increase the tax collected from us by making all our essentials more expensive because it will be good for us!

Those who think that Turnbull is some kind of moderate person who can resurrect the "mainstream" Liberals as part of the wider Liberal Party, they live in lala-land. Howard started the mass extermination of "small l" liberals still hanging around that party and Abbott basically completed it: there are none left for the toy-boy Turnbull to resurrect and if one saw his display in Question time today, they would have realised straight away, any hope of Turnbull being a "small l" liberal was pure fantasy.

All he did was confirm that the policy initiatives of medieval Tony were sound and good for the country and he was backing them 100%. The only thing reminiscent of a time long ago was his pandering to the National(Country) Party rump by transferring the responsibility of water policy to Barnaby Joyce so the squatocracy can divide the spoils of the Murray/Darling River system amongst themselves and bugger South Australia and speaking of South Australia; how's about that slimy, sleazy mincing poodle Pyne delivering Turnbull the Prime Ministership on the promise that he becomes Defence Minister!

Think about it, Pyne as the Defence Minister! He's going to promise South Australians that the subs will be built here and somehow, a promise from Pyne is going to be believed by South Australians and it will save his bacon at the next election.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

Snap Morgan poll gives PPM to Malcolm 70/24 over Shorten. That's right folks 70/24.

Looks like Malcolm is going to be the Liberal Party's Kevin Rudd

Shortly after, the Nats announced they had Malcolm stitched up on a written deal: No carbon tax OR emissions trading scheme for the duration of his prime ministership.
That's right folks. Not in first term not in second but for the whole.duration.of his.primeministership.

Verily St Andrew Bolt spoke prophetically today when he said:


And with K.Rudd ratings too

Be afraid l*vvies. Be very afraid.

Your hypocrisy is incredible. When labor knife a PM it's a cynical abuse of power driven by polls. When libs do the same it's happy happy joy, because polls.

By the way, if Turnbull is Rudd that means the libs get a one month bounce after the knifing, followed by a drop back to a losing position. If Turnbull equals Rudd, then you save the furniture.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

When Labor put Latham, an unhinged lunatic, as their leader, they seriously eroded their integrity - when they out Rudd in, and egotist most of them hated, they destroyed what was left of it.

Politics is not sport, winning at all costs, for the sake of winning itself, should not be an acceptable stance.

Fair enough. I'll assume then you're similarly disenchanted with the Liberal Party, who played the most cynical and cheap politics while in opposition, and who today knifed a PM, essentially doing exactly what they spent three years abusing labor for. Turnbull is an egoist of the highest order. He entered politics to become PM, and nothing else. The Liberal Party was a means to that end. And he got that chance today because the Liberal Party are, as you say, playing politics as if it were sport, with a win at all costs mentality.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Twenty one years in Parliament, and apart from being a wrecker, will Abbott have any lasting legacy?

Defeated Gillard and Rudd.

Are you going to answer my earlier question?


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[Ice-Wolf]

Defeated Gillard and Rudd.

Are you going to answer my earlier question?


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Rudd defeated Gillard, Abbott had little to do with it.

 

[samFFC]

Explain to me how this dysfunction is indicative of broader Australian society?

Inability to discuss complex policy in depth?
Lack of knowledge of how preferential voting works?
Greater focus on celebrity than policy?
etc.

 

[Northalives]

We are a laughing stock. Other countries are laughing at how dysfunctional Australia has become. Nevertheless, this dysfunction is a representation of the broader Australian public. I don't expect we'll get back to stable governments anytime soon. The country is in disarray, has been for quite some time.

There is nothing dysfunctional in this country nor are we in any disarray and ******** "journalists" both here and abroad know absolutely nothing about how a functioning and for all intents and purposes, a fair and equitable democracy such as ours functions.

I despise Abbott for what he represents and his demeanour towards others but we, as a collective, we elected the Liberal Party with Abbott to form government and that made him mine and our Prime Minister. I hated that but I had to cop it because that is what you must do in a proper democracy.

Now that the Liberal Party has decided to dump Abbott and replace him with Turnbull, that does not constitute a coup in the context of coup as in Chile on the 11th of September 1973 or the recent coup in Egypt or the overthrow of governments by god knows who.

What happened in Australia yesterday was the Liberal Party exercising is democratic right to dispense with it's leader and we all have the opportunity, nay, we will all be compelled to have our say at the next Federal Election as to whether we re-elect the Liberal Party or not. Just as we were compelled to pass judgement on the whether or not to re-elect the ALP after Rudd was dumped and Gillard installed as their leader; we will get the same chance again.

The problem I see with Australian politics is not with the Political Parties and certainly not with system of Government, although some politicians do leave a lot to be desired nevertheless, the problem with Politics in Australia is that there are an increasing amount of people in the electorate who view the Australian Parliamentary System as being like that of the USA's and ours can not be further removed from that sham of a "democracy".

A lot of Australian's have this notion that when they go and vote that they are voting for eg., Howard or Beazley as if it's some type of Presidential election when in reality, they are casting a vote for a particular policy/policies. Of course the political parties place much importance on their "leader" but come the next election, regardless of who the leader was at the last election, the electorate either re-elect the government or boot them out depending on, in the main, what impact the policies of the government had on them.

When Gillard replaced Rudd, that was the ALP telling Rudd that he was failing in his leadership by not facilitating the right environment within which to formulate their policy agenda.

The Liberals replaced Abbott with Turnbull not because of any policy issues, but because Abbott was not good at "selling" their policies and they think that Turnbull will be better at "selling" the SAME policies.

Both of these examples do not constitute coups, they constitute political parties trying their damnedest to get policies passed by both houses of Parliament and remain re-electable.

We don't elect presidents in this country like they do in the USA who, when elected, APPOINT anyone they basically want to positions in what we call the Ministry. Our Minister are elected by us and not plucked from all sorts of places like they are in the USA.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Rudd defeated Gillard, Abbott had little to do with it.

Nah.

Gillard was going to lose the election to Abbott and the unions instilled Rudd as a figurehead to save face.


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[Northalives]

Snap Morgan poll gives PPM to Malcolm 70/24 over Shorten. That's right folks 70/24.

Looks like Malcolm is going to be the Liberal Party's Kevin Rudd

Shortly after, the Nats announced they had Malcolm stitched up on a written deal: No carbon tax OR emissions trading scheme for the duration of his prime ministership.
That's right folks. Not in first term not in second but for the whole.duration.of his.primeministership.

Verily St Andrew Bolt spoke prophetically today when he said:


And with K.Rudd ratings too

Be afraid l*vvies. Be very afraid.

Wow, the Morgan Pole!!

The most archaic and despised prime minister since the Vietnam War gets dumped by an incompetent and brain dead political party who install a bloke who is as popular now, as he was when he became Leader of HM's Opposition replacing the hilariously lightweight Nelson only for his popularity to plummet, when the electorate had time to see what a shallow and hollow person he is and your having orgasms! Wow!!!

Hear from you after the New Year, mmmwwaa!

 

[Nankervis brothers]

Nah.

Gillard was going to lose the election to Abbott and the unions instilled Rudd as a figurehead to save face.


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No they didn't.

 

[RandB]

Snap Morgan poll gives PPM to Malcolm 70/24 over Shorten. That's right folks 70/24.

The problem for Turnbull is that between now and the fed election there is only one way he can go and that's down. Has already hit his peak.

 

[Tulip]

Why do people find it so hard to realise that we don't vote for Prime Ministers?

Honestly, Labor members/voters are taking this better than the kind of people who comment on Seven/Nine News FB articles.

You vote for your MP, not the PM. Your MP gets a vote in every decision as your representative, that includes a vote on who leads the party.

We didn't elect Rudd, Gillard, Abbott or Turnbull - we elected members who used their authority to vote.

It honestly seems like the only people taking this change well are 18-35 types.

 

[Northalives]

Why do people find it so hard to realise that we don't vote for Prime Ministers?

Honestly, Labor members/voters are taking this better than the kind of people who comment on Seven/Nine News FB articles.

You vote for your MP, not the PM. Your MP gets a vote in every decision as your representative, that includes a vote on who leads the party.

We didn't elect Rudd, Gillard, Abbott or Turnbull - we elected members who used their authority to vote.

It honestly seems like the only people taking this change well are 18-35 types.

I think that those who relied on Abbott and the Liberal Party to smash up anything that threatened the status quo, ie. "business as usual and to hell with the environment, education, health, etc etc are livid with the "gutless" backbenchers, who could see their political careers going down the gurgler and changing sides and dumping Abbott and for Turnbull what's more.

You are dead right about some people finding hard to realise that we don't vote for Prime Minister but rather for political parties but in fairness to them, when most, if not all of your information is sourced from the "mainstream" media, you are conditioned to believe that the whole contest is about person A vs person B and if you can get the punters believing that, then you can narrow your attack (or praise) on one person and one person alone whilst not having to worry about spending anytime on stupid things like policies.