Ablett senior versus Ablett junior

[Brasil2007]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

It is really hard to compare because you have a hugely gifted but - lets face it - a bit lazy father playing in an era of amateurs versus a hugely gifted son with a terrific work ethic (although he mightn't have always had that) in an era of professionals. Snr would have been a great player in any era just because of his talent, but I must say I do wonder whether clubs would give the same latitude now that they did then: pure talent wouldn't get you through now I suspect. So it comes down to what you mean by "better".

I think it's certainly true that Ablett is on track to surpass his dad, but it'll be another ten years before we really know. It's an interesting though that the greatest forward ever might have fathered the greatest midfielder ever - Jnr isn't there yet, but I can't remember a better game from a midfielder than I saw last night.

 

[winty]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

It is really hard to compare because you have a hugely gifted but - lets face it - a bit lazy father playing in an era of amateurs versus a hugely gifted son with a terrific work ethic (although he mightn't have always had that) in an era of professionals. Snr would have been a great player in any era just because of his talent, but I must say I do wonder whether clubs would give the same latitude now that they did then: pure talent wouldn't get you through now I suspect. So it comes down to what you mean by "better".

Well put.

Can you imagine how good Ablett senior would've been if he worked as hard as his son does?

 

[Brasil2007]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

Well put.

Can you imagine how good Ablett senior would've been if he worked as hard as his son does?

I'd enjoy seeing him trying to play to the team rules we have now - "you want me to pass it off rather than kick the goal around my body from the boundary line from 45m out while being tackled?" I'm not sure he'd see the point!

Seriously I think what you'd end up with would be a cross between Junior, Steve Johnson and Chapman - will the best qualities of all of them.

 

[SJ]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

I'd enjoy seeing him trying to play to the team rules we have now - "you want me to pass it off rather than kick the goal around my body from the boundary line from 45m out while being tackled?" I'm not sure he'd see the point!

Seriously I think what you'd end up with would be a cross between Junior, Steve Johnson and Chapman - will the best qualities of all of them.

I wish more of our players would have a ping at the moment.

 

[Shmoses]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

Well put. It's amazing how selective and short the media's memories are.

Gary junior has now played about 130-odd games I think, and the improvement has been consistent over his whole career, but he's only really been top drawer the last 2 years. His Dad was elite from his very first game.

The one proviso is Ablett senior was 22 when he started for Geelong, so he was already mature, junior was 17 so naturally took a bit longer.

But at the same time in games Dad had already kicked about 500 goals, won a B&F, represented Victoria multiple times, won a Norm Smith medal and so on. Gary junior's getting there, but he's not level with the old man. Just yet anyway.

The one thing I am now completely convinced about however, is that there has never been a father/son combination this good.

This is all true, but there are a lot of other points to consider. Ablett Sr. played in an era dominated by strong power forwards and marked by more open play and less emphasis on free men in the back line. Gaz Jr. plays in an era where the game is broken and won in the midfield, with more emphasis on effective disposal of the ball from stoppages and tight situations, which is where Jr. is the master. The beauty of his 39 touches last night is that a ridiculous amount of them were effective.

You mention individual achievements. While Sr. certainly kicked more goals, Jr. has a B&F, been selected to represent Victoria, has already won a Leigh Matthews Trophy and was runner up in the Brownlow. Another thing you mention is age, where you rightly point out that Sr. was 22 when he came to the Cats and dominated from the word go. How old was Jr. last year when he started to dominate? ...22/23. Ultimately it's pointless to compare them now, as Sr. has had an entire career and Jr. has potentially a decade left in him. Who knows where his career will go from here? Last night, midway through the third I saw Jr. climb and take a mark in front of a pack that reminded me of his dad... maybe when his tank isn't enough for his dynamic midfield role he'll settle in the forward ala Sr.? Who knows? I think we should hold off judgement until his career is finished or finishing. The only thing I know for certain is that we're in for a treat.

 

[Lingsface]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

prismall eats the cakies that ablettt nibbles out on his oat meal leaf.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

Jnr, at his age, has snr covered for consistency at the same age. On freakish talent and ability to rip a game apart, snr's best is still better than jnr's. Keeping in mind that snr reached his first real peak about 7 years into his career, jnr is holding true to genetics. Either way, jnr is currently the best player on our list easily, and to be comparing him to his father is doing him an injustice. Jnr's attitude and desire to be a part of the team is better now than his father's ever was.

 

[sarah.13]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

For those of you who never saw Senior in his prime, let me put it in perspective.
Senior > Junior,Franklin and Judd put together.

 

[volcboy]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

Having seen Snr's first game vs Fitzroy (20+ possies, 3? goals, 2 weeks for hitting Gary Wilson) and many thereafter, I can't imagine ever seeing a better player. Snr was more inconsistent (from game to game and within one game), lazy and selfish, but he could do anything he wanted when the urge took him. He regularly the urge when his team needed it (e.g. 1989 semi-final vs Melbourne after a bad beating by Essendon the week before, when he stood up before the game and said 'Just kick it to me', went out and took one of the marks of the year in the first 2 minutes of the game and kicked 10.5).

Jnr is better in some areas (consistency, teamwork, leadership), but would need to be a bit more selfish and take it upon himself a bit more to get into the realm of his dad. He has more skills than any of his teammates, so IMO he sometimes needs to be a tiny bit more selfish and kick the inspirational goal that would lift his team.

If he improves in this area and goes down forward a bit more later in his career (where he would be a bit more like Brad Johnson than his dad in style) he could get close to his dad, but I can't see him ever being better.

 

[BlueOyster]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

i thought about this on the way home from the game on friday. snr had pure excitment for me anyway whenever he went near the ball. you could hear the crowd lift in excitment before he evn touched it, jnr seems to me to be the opposite, he gets the ball and the crowd gets excited after he has done what he has done. he leaves people thinking "how the hell did he beat 8 tackles and still get a top quality kick out". maybe its just me, but seeing his father in nearly all of his games no one can come close to the freaky things he did. jnr though will be more consistent but being in different positions its hard to ever compare.

but for me im hoping jnr can pop out about 4 boys, maybe even a dozen, imagine half a team of abletts?

 

[Brasil2007]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

For those of you who never saw Senior in his prime, let me put it in perspective.
Senior > Junior,Franklin and Judd put together.

I'd agree completely with that on talent. But AFL lists aren't built on talent alone any more. To be the complete player now you need discipline as well as talent.

He was an astounding player, and did things that are unimaginable today (in the wet, with blokes smacking him every 5 minutes). He's the greatest natural talent I think the game will ever see.

 

[Hinkley29]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

On a related matter, I will pose a hypothetical question:

If you could replace the current G Ablett Jnr with a 24 year old G Ablett Snr in our 2008 side, would you do it?

As much as I love Jnr, I reckon I would do it. Could you imagine what Gaz snr in his prime would do in this Geelong team? It would be frightening how good he would be.

 

[Shmoses]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

it's hard but i'd be inclined to do it because we'd still have bartel and corey in the midfield

 

[bulletproof]

Re: Ablett Jnr better than Ablett Snr

'Footballers are like lovers, we always seem to have special affection for the incumbent'

Seems appropriate here as it does for the Buddy Franklin discussions.

Gary Junior is blindingly brilliant player but his father was in the 3 greatest players of all time, people debate whether the son is even in the best 3 players in the current competition.

Any comparisons are hyperbole. Long may he continue to play as he did on Friday night alas.

 

[Big Red is back]

Ablett vs Ablett

I was in shock last night on the footy show when they were even suggesting Jnr was better than his old man.

Bascially I think Ablett Snr is the best player off all time so I am struggling to see how people rate Jnr on par or greater than him.

Keep in mind I think Ablett Jnr is a star but Ablett Snr is at the next level

Thoughts?

 

[catempire]

Re: Ablett vs Ablett

Most people would share your view at this point in time.

Should be revisited once Junior retires.

 

[SJ]

Re: Ablett vs Ablett

Agree fully with Big Red is back. But then again they have to talk about something.

 

[Whit3y]

Re: Ablett vs Ablett

arnt no man, no matter what sport they play thats better then ablett snr

 

[worthogs]

Re: Ablett vs Ablett

This was done to death a couple of weeks ago..http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=548262

Snr By a mile, the comment of the night was that as time goes on people (and morons like Lyon) forget how Unique he was

 

[TheOutsider]

Re: Ablett vs Ablett

In my time only one player gets close to Gazza Snr and that's Carey. People forget how good Gazza was before he moved to full forward. People that are undecided need to watch the highlights of the whole 89 finals series.

Consider how much pressure Gazza Jnr has had I am amazed just how good he is. There is no doubt they will go down as the greatest father & son combo to ever play the game . I also think Jnr will go down as one of the greatest Geelong players to ever play the game.

One thing i do know is, like his dad its hard not to get a stiff neck when Jnr gets the footy.

 

[cat in sydney]

Re: Ablett vs Ablett

One thing i do know is, like his dad its hard not to get a stiff when Jnr gets the footy.

edited.

 

[Glassjaw]

Re: Ablett vs Ablett

A few years ago Judd was the greatest footballer the world had ever seen. Now people (including me) were disgusted with his AA selection.

People are prone to massive exaggeration when it comes to footballers. No real reason why, but people are. Like this crap about Ablett being better than his old man, and Franklin being the greatest player ever (he only kicked 3 more goals than Fev and no one is talking him up).

 

[JUBJUB]

Re: Ablett vs Ablett

I was in shock last night on the footy show when they were even suggesting Jnr was better than his old man.

He probably is better than Sr was at the same age.Sr didn't really start to dominate until his late 20's,didn't he ?

 

[rizzo]

Re: Ablett vs Ablett

If Gazza Jnr surpasses his old man, then he will be the greatest player to play the game. Can't see it happening, but would love it to happen

 

[Claude Balls]

Re: Ablett vs Ablett

It never ceases to amaze me how short-termed so many footy pundits' memories are.

Despite how good Junior is now, Senior was comfortably better. Averaging over 7 goals in a season at full forward for example, or kicking 8 from a half forward flank... when you really think hard about it, or watch a highlights clip on Youtube, it's not a hard question at all.