Mega Thread Adam Goodes starring in Lord of the Flies - The only place to post Goodes stuff - Read the OP

[Lord_Espos]

Goodes needs a cup of cement....

 

[Taskmaster]

OK I'm going to have a go at answering your question.


A player is getting booed every time he goes onto a football field.

Now a lot of people say it is because he is a flog.

There are a lot of flogs playing football if this was the case then most of what you would hear at a football ground would be booing.

Stevie J is a flog but he doesn't get booed like he's knocked out a player every time he touches the ball.

People say that it's because he was a dirty player - Chris Judd was suspended you eye gauging and a chicken wing tackle. Dustin Fletcher doesn't get booed and has missed over 20 matches through suspension. As Hawthorn we are known for playing "unsociable football" and we love it. The dirty player thing doesn't wash with me - there are dirty players who don't get booed.

The Boos that Goodes receives are the sort of boos a player gets when they've knocked out an opposing player and then get the ball. Goodes hasn't done that but he still gets like that everytime he goes out to play.

but let's go back to why people boo Goodes.

A lot of people on here have stated they boo Goodes because he is an unworthy recipient of the Australian of the Year award. - An award that an independent committee have chosen him for - he didn't ask for it and once the decision was made he could either accept it or reject it (could you imagine the outcry if he rejected it).

So people are going to boo him because he got this award?? I don't understand why that would prompt someone to boo him - even if you did think he shouldn't get the award (for the record I think people in fields that don't get much public attention like science and medicine should get the award ahead of entertainers - but I don't see anyone booing Geoffrey Rush, Allan Border, John Farnham, Pat Rafter or Lee Kernigan - all winners of the Australian of the year. I don't get this one and if you think about...

The other reason people say they boo Goodes is that he singled out a 13 year old girl. This is true and something he says he has some regrets
about BUT he was calling out racism - a term that has a long historical racist association - black people are more like apes more like animals (actually up until the 1967 referendum indigenous Australians were classed as flora and fauna) so he felt a duty to call that out. SO if this is your reason for booing him then yes you are racist.

There are 72 indigenous players in the AFL and only one of them gets booed. Maybe co-incidentally only one of them have publicly questioned the overall treatment of indigenous Australians over the course of history.

for the record Cyril and Burgers have both openly said they hate the booing of Adam Goodes - both have publicly commended him on his stance and on his dance. This is a fact that seems to wash over many people here.

You have the right to say, do and believe whatever you want (I guess that what makes Australia such a great place) but others have the right to view those in how they interpret it.

That's great. My interpretation is that this has been blown so far out of proportion, it's become a joke!

But hey, I forgot about the 1 rule for Goodes and a rule for the rest.

So now if ANY and I mean ANY other player receives any boo's, then from the BS accusation's from the media, AFL, Players, Posters etc, I will be accusing those, as RACISTS! If it's good for 1, it's good for the rest.

So, to all players, this is your chance to play the racist card, the AFL have set the precedent, it is now open slather. We will become the most racist sport on the entire planet.

 

[HawthornHawk]

They shouldn't have got it either.

Sport is something you do for fun

But the white men haven't been relentlessly abused by the public for receiving the award have they?

The white Australian public has a terrible relationship with indigenous athletes, as long as they're good little boys who do the spectacular once in a while but keep their mouths shut then everything is fine, but how dare they have an opinion..

 

[Bikefreak]

I think we are forgetting this bit.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/racism

Behaving in a racist manner is not a matter of opinion. Neither can it be decided, considered or judged solely according to who is involved and what was said. Intent needs to somehow be determined also.

With all due respect.....any of us can take offence at anything we choose to. Adam Goodes can also take offence at anything he chooses to. It doesnt automatically mean that the thing/person that caused the offence is racist or racially motivated.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Taskmaster]

But the white men haven't been relentlessly abused by the public for receiving the award have they?

The white Australian public has a terrible relationship with indigenous athletes, as long as they're good little boys who do the spectacular once in a while but keep their mouths shut then everything is fine, but how dare they have an opinion..

There is a massive difference between Opinion and Accusation. I'm all for people (white, black, yellow, green) to have an opinion. But what Goodes, AFL, Players, Media have done is Accused the football public of being racist!

There is a big difference sunshine!

 

[Bikefreak]

I love all of our national and international athletes regardless of race or ethnicity.

If they identify as being Australian and they represent their country with humility, dignity and professionalism....go get em.

We (do) have had some awesome indigenous athletes that have achieved some amazing things all over the world. A couple have played up a little bit too....but you get that.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[badgrill]

Good post by killerspud.

I don't think everyone who has been booing Goodes is racist. But isn't the critical issue that he, and other indigenous players do? So by booing you are just increasing the discomfort of not only Goodes but other indigenous players who perceive it as a mass form of racism. Not to mention the audience or broader indigenous community. It is not for non-indigenous people to tell indigenous people what is and is not offensive. Offence is being taken. It needs to stop. It is embarrassing.

My own view is that it probably did not start (predominately) for racist reasons. Looking at Hawthorn games specifically I think it started for the same reasons Selwood or Bartel get booed against us. For the same reasons Mitchell and Boomer Harvey and Crowley get booed by other clubs. People don't like Goodes as a footballer and that is not racist.

The media whipped it up into a frenzy and thousands jumped on the bandwagon. The bandwagon of idiots has grown with each week that has gone by and with every media personality throwing fuel on the fire. I accept that a large number (probably the majority) of those who jumped on the bandwagon have done it mindlessly. Simply to join in with the pack and boo an opposition player to help create a hostile environment. Some just for the kick of watching media people complain about it.

But there is without doubt a significant number (and you only need to read all the threads on this forum) who boo Goodes for reasons relating to the Australian of Year (over which he had no control), his response to racism on and off the footy field and what is perceived by non-indigenous people as "sooking." The people who boo Goodes for those reasons are racist. And everyone booing him because they don't like his diving or sniping or just to join in with a pack are providing cover for racists who can no longer abuse an indigenous footballer without punishment but can safely sit back with thousands of others and boo.

If you boo Goodes, whatever you motivation, you now know that it is not only offensive to Goodes but other indigenous footballers. It is like using a phrase that you never thought was offensive to a certain race but learning that it is. If you continue to use such a phrase despite that knowledge, you are a racist. And anyone who now continues to boo Goodes after seeing the reaction of Goodes, his family, Jetta and other indigenous footballers and leaders - is a racist.

I've gotta say this pretty much does it for me as well. I started off feeling just a bit uncomfortable with the whole thing but thinking perhaps it was a bit of a storm in a teacup, but realise now that it's gone way past that. It doesn't make sense to me to boo just to show that we can. Or because we think Goodes is a campaigner.

So anyone who boos him now has been forewarned that it is on the same level as actual racial abuse (rightly or wrongly it's up to you).

Please just don't bother doing it.

(And perhaps I too am gullible and been taken for a spin, but I can live with that).

 

[wallyt99]

If there was consensus that a booing hiatus would end this media garbage that alone would be reason to stop.

Sadly we would then be subject to doubtless articles about 'reformed booers' and 'Hawthorn's quiet rascism'. Sigh.

 

[arupist]

Good post by killerspud.

I don't think everyone who has been booing Goodes is racist. But isn't the critical issue that he, and other indigenous players do? So by booing you are just increasing the discomfort of not only Goodes but other indigenous players who perceive it as a mass form of racism. Not to mention the audience or broader indigenous community. It is not for non-indigenous people to tell indigenous people what is and is not offensive. Offence is being taken. It needs to stop. It is embarrassing.

My own view is that it probably did not start (predominately) for racist reasons. Looking at Hawthorn games specifically I think it started for the same reasons Selwood or Bartel get booed against us. For the same reasons Mitchell and Boomer Harvey and Crowley get booed by other clubs. People don't like Goodes as a footballer and that is not racist.

The media whipped it up into a frenzy and thousands jumped on the bandwagon. The bandwagon of idiots has grown with each week that has gone by and with every media personality throwing fuel on the fire. I accept that a large number (probably the majority) of those who jumped on the bandwagon have done it mindlessly. Simply to join in with the pack and boo an opposition player to help create a hostile environment. Some just for the kick of watching media people complain about it.

But there is without doubt a significant number (and you only need to read all the threads on this forum) who boo Goodes for reasons relating to the Australian of Year (over which he had no control), his response to racism on and off the footy field and what is perceived by non-indigenous people as "sooking." The people who boo Goodes for those reasons are racist. And everyone booing him because they don't like his diving or sniping or just to join in with a pack are providing cover for racists who can no longer abuse an indigenous footballer without punishment but can safely sit back with thousands of others and boo.

If you boo Goodes, whatever you motivation, you now know that it is not only offensive to Goodes but other indigenous footballers. It is like using a phrase that you never thought was offensive to a certain race but learning that it is. If you continue to use such a phrase despite that knowledge, you are a racist. And anyone who now continues to boo Goodes after seeing the reaction of Goodes, his family, Jetta and other indigenous footballers and leaders - is a racist.

Good post, Billy.
One comment on your last sentence, though. I will never boo Goodes (actually I never did boo him), but I will always dislike him because I think he is an arseh*le. I trust that doesn't make me a racist.

 

[Davo23]

Good call bugalugs I'm with you

Shaun Burgoyne and Cyril Rioli have both openly stated they don't like the booing of Goodes as has Jordan Lewis - if three stars of our back to back premiership team state they don't like it could we not stop - for them if nothing else

Yes, That's my view.

If Shaun Burgoyne says it must stop, I'm with him absolutely.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The fact remains that the AFL has singled Goodsey out for special treatment....They can hardly complain when the fans reciprocate.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Yes, That's my view.

If Shaun Burgoyne says it must stop, I'm with him absolutely.

What did you expect him, or any other AFL player, to say?

 

[QuietB]

I wonder if Buddy will do a war dance in support of Goodes this weekend.

Highly unlikely but it would be very interesting if he did. Something like that might be a circuit breaker - everyone loves Buddy.

In fact I can see all the indigenous boys coming out in support this weekend and maybe re-enacting the war dance. Support Goodes, silence the crowds.

 

[killerspud]

I wonder if Buddy will do a war dance in support of Goodes this weekend.

Highly unlikely but it would be very interesting if he did. Something like that might be a circuit breaker - everyone loves Buddy.

In fact I can see all the indigenous boys coming out in support this weekend and maybe re-enacting the war dance. Support Goodes, silence the crowds.

(more challenging for this board if Cyril did it)

 

[HawthornHawk]

For all the excuses of booing the man because of the way he plays the game and his record at the tribunal.. He's been playing the game the same way for well over a decade, and yet he only started getting booed and abused after he won the Australian of the Year Award.

Goodes won the Australian of the Year award for his work with underprivileged Indigenous people and trying to better their lives. In his acceptance speech he brought up the fact that Australia has a racist history (anyone want to dispute this??) and that racism towards indigenous people in this country is still a big problem (anyone want to dispute this??).

The public have reacted by booing him and claiming he should never have received the Australian of the Year award.

How can anyone possibly say that this isn't a race issue?

 

[Bad Boy Beama]

don't like Goodes, but will no longer boo because I do not want to be associate as a racist. I booed him because of his dirty acts and diving (see my previous post). I didn't boo him because he was Australian of the year and the 13 year old kid situation. I applauded his dance.

With regards to the 13 year old kid I will take flack for this but I believe he did the right thing at the time, he didn't know her age and when he did he showed her compassion. I have a 12 year (she is a 7 year member) daughter and I have tried and on the most part taught her to respect others, she getting into the games we go to cheers us and applauds like me when the opposition do good/cool/great things on the field. Like me she doesn't abuse the umpires other than the occasional" come on didn't see that" etc. I PUT WHAT SHE DID AT HER PARENTS FEET NOT HERS.

 

[HawthornHawk]

And fancy Dermott Brereton chiming in on the subject considering his history.. What a joke.

 

[Procrastinator35]

(more challenging for this board if Cyril did it)

But he didn't & hasn't....Sizzle lets his footy do the talking....Which, when it comes to footballers, is at it should be....And No one speaks the language of football quite like he does.

 

[MightyHawks86]

Disclaimer - The views expressed below are the views of MH86 and as such could be long-winded

Now that the legalities are out of the way:

If Goodes and others perceive the boos as racist, then they is entitled to that opinion. However, 'I'm offended' does not always equal 'it's offensive'. Nowadays the line between those two is blurred so frequently that it's difficult to tell what's what. Generalisation by the media obviously doesn't help either.

Racism is a touchy subject. If someone is of the perception or belief that they have been racially abused or slandered, then it can be very difficult to change their minds (speaking from personal experience - being Anglo-indian, I've copped a fair share), even if there were absolutely no racist views intended. Personally, I dislike Goodes as a player, and apparently many people share that view. However, now that the word racism has been tossed into the equation (with some relevance, although in my view not complete relevance), these issues and actions immediately become a societal and cultural minefield. Traverse at your own risk! Jetta did.

In light of all that has happened, I believe that justification is now irrelevant. People will believe what they want to, and act accordingly. Goodes has done that, and it may lead to his retirement, or he may keep on playing. I wouldn't begrudge his either choice. He is acting towards his own perceptions.

One thing I do find interesting though, is the irony in standing up for culture, unity and equality, which has resulted in such a divisive issue. And while i'm at it, I'm also wondering why the media didn't mention the action Jetta made AFTER his war-dance... surely an 'up-yours' to the crowd wasn't in the best taste?

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

Good call bugalugs I'm with you

Shaun Burgoyne and Cyril Rioli have both openly stated they don't like the booing of Goodes as has Jordan Lewis - if three stars of our back to back premiership team state they don't like it could we not stop - for them if nothing else

Yeh I thought they would come out and encourage booing of the opposition

Was this when they said that they are taking it one week at a time and just wanted to give 110%?

Seriously though I've only ever heard one club encourage their supporters to boo the opposition.... and that was the $wans

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

For all the excuses of booing the man because of the way he plays the game and his record at the tribunal.. He's been playing the game the same way for well over a decade, and yet he only started getting booed and abused after he won the Australian of the Year Award.

Goodes won the Australian of the Year award for his work with underprivileged Indigenous people and trying to better their lives. In his acceptance speech he brought up the fact that Australia has a racist history (anyone want to dispute this??) and that racism towards indigenous people in this country is still a big problem (anyone want to dispute this??).

The public have reacted by booing him and claiming he should never have received the Australian of the Year award.

How can anyone possibly say that this isn't a race issue?

If you don't like someone and they get an award you don't think they deserve it usually intensifies your dislike for them, it's nothing to do with race. Like Prince Phillip getting a knighthood, only made those who dislike Prince Philip dislike him even more. Seriously, people are reading racial issues into things where they don't exist (yes, I know there are some racist people but we are not talking about those people are we?).

 

[Davo23]

What did you expect him, or any other AFL player, to say?

Wouldn't you respect what Shaun Burgoyne has to say?

Remember the time he and Bateman had a go at Mike Sheahan over an article he wrote criticising indigenous players?

He's got my respect.

 

[arupist]

And fancy Dermott Brereton chiming in on the subject considering his history.. What a joke.

Maybe that history makes him an authority on being a dick.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

If I were currently booing Goodes (which I'm not) I would stop now because he is upset by it. Why can't the AFL, the media, AFLPA, the premier etc. say that - the situation's out of hand and he's upset. They can even say he feels it's racist but to say it's is racist and that anyone who boos from now on is racist is just disgraceful.

Goodes may want to re-consider a post footy career in politics too, he will cop plenty of criticism and flak in that job and will need the hide of a rhinoceros to survive. Not sure he is cut out for such a role to be honest.

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

I wonder if Buddy will do a war dance in support of Goodes this weekend.

Highly unlikely but it would be very interesting if he did. Something like that might be a circuit breaker - everyone loves Buddy.

In fact I can see all the indigenous boys coming out in support this weekend and maybe re-enacting the war dance. Support Goodes, silence the crowds.

Everyone loves Buddy (except Hawks fans, although deep, deep down) but he has still been booed fairly regularly throughout his career by opposition fans. At least at his time for Hawks he was, and often jeered if he did something wrong like give away a free and miss a set shot.

But that's no exception to other good players from other teams. The thing is Goodes acknowledging his booing help create the problem that we see today.