Mega Thread Adam Goodes starring in Lord of the Flies - The only place to post Goodes stuff - Read the OP

[cryptor]

Perhaps the boos should be replaced with a chant of why people don't like him "DIVER! SLIDER! ROTTEN DIRTY SNIPER!"

That can't be misconstrued as racist. The chant literally speaks for itself.

But I'm sure with enough cheerleading from blokes like Robbo they'll be able to convince themselves that it's racist too eventually.

 

[Prudster]

If you want the media to stop, stop booing. If you want to stop being labeled a racist, stop booing. The answer to all issues is stop booing and move on. If Goodes really is just another player we like to boo then what does it hurt to stop booing? Everyone comes out looking bad for booing Goodes in an unprecedented fashion. Its not just a bad look for the game, it is a bad look for fans of football, especially our club.

You are assuming people care about being called racist. Any call of racism now just feels like an overreaction, just as it did when they originally went on their tirade against Hawthorn supporters. If i boo Goodes, i don't believe i'm a racist, so some fat prick on AFL 360 saying i am really means nothing to me.

The crowd are obviously being sheep for the most part, but the thing about crowds is that logic usually doesn't come into it. Once a few start booing him, the rest will follow. What needs to happen is the individuals within the AFL and AFL media need to drop their agenda, realise that they are the reason this has gotten so out of hand, and actively work to fix it, rather than just continually shout "RACISM!" louder and louder.

Why would crowds care about a bad look? It's worse for the AFL to have the bad look, fans don't give a shit what the media think. It doesn't look bad for our club, the media just tried to paint it that way. We can see that all clubs are doing it. If it were just Hawthorn fans, perhaps, but the fact is that fans are unhappy and the AFL are sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming about racists.

I think that's in part because of the way Goodes has handled it.

How different would it have been if at the start he had said "I feel sorry for the girl. I felt really offended by the racist remark, but I didn't know she was so young. I'd like to get together with her, talk about it and bury the hatchet."

Or at any time since the booing became loud had said something similar to Sam Mitchell - "It's part of the game. Let's get on with it." He might not have meant it, but it would have calmed things down a bit.

Is that not what Goodes did? I feel like i remember that he called the girl and let her know how hurtful it was to him, and offered to educate her.

 

[spudmaster]

Here is a lesson in Psychology for you all - The brain has two modes of thinking - Automatic (type 1) and Deliberate (type 2).

My brain also has two modes, but they're commonly referred to as "sex" and "sleep", with the latter usually always following the former.

 

[Bikefreak]

I don't think he needs to be made accountable for anything. As I have posted elsewhere on this thread, I think the blame should be sheeted home to the AOTY committee. They made a big mistake by awarding the AOTY to a person who, because of his job, is exposed in the media weekly.

Football is a theatre full of heroes and villains. Think about it. If Sam Mitchell, Joel Selwood, Nick Reiwoldt, Brian Lake, or any current player was made AOTY then every incorrect tackle, accidental hit to the head, 50m penalty, appeal for a free kick, would be booed relentlessly simply because they were AOTY.

The AOTY committee should have waited for Goodes to retire before offering it to him. Then he would have been out of the weekly media circus and able to concentrate on doing AOTY things.

Nah mate you have gone off on a tangent.

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[Taskmaster]

The prick probably boo's himself to sleep.

 

[IdiotBox]

My brain also has two modes, but they're commonly referred to as "sex" and "sleep", with the latter usually always following the former.

I just hope you're not too sleep deprived mate... perhaps best not to operate heavy machinery etc...

 

[spudmaster]

I just hope you're not too sleep deprived mate...

Haven't slept in years

perhaps best not to operate heavy machinery etc...

An apt description of how I remember the last time funnily enough

 

[diggydig]

I think that's in part because of the way Goodes has handled it.

How different would it have been if at the start he had said "I feel sorry for the girl. I felt really offended by the racist remark, but I didn't know she was so young. I'd like to get together with her, talk about it and bury the hatchet."

OK - Here's the relevant excerpt from what Goodes said on 25 May 2013, one day after the incident (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...rence-transcript/story-fni5fan7-1226650424034). I have selected a few sections of what he said, that in my opinion match very closely what you wanted to hear:

"It was a 13-year-old girl but it's not her fault."

"She's 13, she's still so innocent, I don't put any blame on her. Unfortunately it's what she hears, the environment she's grown up in that has made her think it's ok to call people names. I can guarantee you right now she would have no idea, you know, how it makes anyone feel by calling them an ape."

"But I think the person that needs the most support is the little girl, you know. People need to get around her, she's 13, she's uneducated. You know if she wants to pick up the phone and call me and apologise, I'll take that phone call and I'll have a conversation with that girl about 'You know what, you called me a name, this is how it made me feel', and it's school stuff, it is school stuff."

And after she called him and he spoke with her, he tweeted "Just received a phone call from a young girl apologizing for her actions. Lets support her please".

Not that I think its going to change anyone's mind, but I think it is important that everyone acknowledge the facts.

 

[Hawks1994]

He means Duckwood didnt sook about the booing. Just sooks about everything else.....

Exactly

 

[Brishawk]

You are assuming people care about being called racist. Any call of racism now just feels like an overreaction, just as it did when they originally went on their tirade against Hawthorn supporters. If i boo Goodes, i don't believe i'm a racist, so some fat prick on AFL 360 saying i am really means nothing to me.

I'm not saying you or anyone else specifically is motivated by racial reason in this. What I am saying is that the debate happening here is manufactured after the event to explain what happened. No one sat there an made a perfectly rational decision based on a consistent criteria that Goodes was worth booing. They had an emotional response to Goodes and Booed. It was spontaneous. A large amount of people do want to avoid been thought of as racist even if you don't. You can see this because the arguments in support of booing have shifted noticeably away from racial reasons. The arguments for booing have been strengthened in response to negative feedback.

The crowd are obviously being sheep for the most part, but the thing about crowds is that logic usually doesn't come into it. Once a few start booing him, the rest will follow. What needs to happen is the individuals within the AFL and AFL media need to drop their agenda, realise that they are the reason this has gotten so out of hand, and actively work to fix it, rather than just continually shout "RACISM!" louder and louder.

You claiming an AFL agenda here is no more convincing than labeling everyone a racist. Can you not see how some people not so heavily invested in the specific relationship between hawthorn and Goodes could see this as racially motivated? I know when I heard the booing I felt that in part it was probably related to Goode's comments about racism etc.

I encourage you to read about gamer gate. The pattern there is exactly the same as here. Some people made quite obviously gender-based attacks on a female developer which has now escalted to the point where idiots were making death threats and 'doxing' participants. Really serious stuff and all supported by intricate justifications that came well after the initial attacks. All this happened because people couldn't walk away from what was in part a gender-based attack without merit. Maybe some criticisms were relevant but that was entirely lost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy

Why would crowds care about a bad look? It's worse for the AFL to have the bad look, fans don't give a shit what the media think. It doesn't look bad for our club, the media just tried to paint it that way. We can see that all clubs are doing it. If it were just Hawthorn fans, perhaps, but the fact is that fans are unhappy and the AFL are sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming about racists.

Well most people don't want to be thought of as bad or a problem etc. If sponsors think our club is full of racists (by perception) then it matters to our club. Essentially, you are achieving nothing by booing. You are feeding bad press about fans, the club and all for what? Sweet **** all. Goodes didn't tell the AFL to do anything. It is merely your assumption that the AFL are not listening. Maybe they just don't tolerate even borderline cases of racism? I don't think they handled the situation well but so what. You have the power to end the controversy by stopping booing. Nothing else will end it. Nothing. This is the lesson of Gamer Gate. You only win by walking away.

 

[Gralin]

And Goodes has taken a leave of absence

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-28/goodes-given-leave-by-the-swans

Whether he misses any footy is yet to be seen but it is obviously taking a toll on him

 

[Xtreme]

And Goodes has taken a leave of absence

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-28/goodes-given-leave-by-the-swans

Whether he misses any footy is yet to be seen but it is obviously taking a toll on him

Can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

 

[Brishawk]

Can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Don't be a campaigner.

 

[spudmaster]

And Goodes has taken a leave of absence

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-28/goodes-given-leave-by-the-swans

Whether he misses any footy is yet to be seen but it is obviously taking a toll on him

Carn the Crows!!!

 

[Blaze Storm]

And Goodes has taken a leave of absence

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-28/goodes-given-leave-by-the-swans

Whether he misses any footy is yet to be seen but it is obviously taking a toll on him

Well, obviously I hope he's OK. No-one wants to see someone missing because of taunts, but all I can think is "The media have built this monster and it has just taken its victim."

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Well, obviously I hope he's OK. No-one wants to see someone missing because of taunts, but all I can think is "The media have built this monster and it has just taken its victim."

They kill coaches...and now they can really get another victim...and blame it on the racists in the shadows.

 

[Gralin]

Well, obviously I hope he's OK. No-one wants to see someone missing because of taunts, but all I can think is "The media have built this monster and it has just taken its victim."

It's getting to the point where it doesn't really matter who's fault it is, Goodes, The AFL, the media, the footy public (I think everyone has played a part) we are now into what looks very much like workplace bullying and telling someone to harden up isn't an acceptable answer anymore.

The question now is how much to people really dislike Goodes? Will the crowds back off? Or will they smell blood in the water?

 

[Blaze Storm]

It's getting to the point where it doesn't really matter who's fault it is, Goodes, The AFL, the media, the footy public (I think everyone has played a part) we are now into what looks very much like workplace bullying and telling someone to harden up isn't an acceptable answer anymore.

The question now is how much to people really dislike Goodes? Will the crowds back off? Or will they smell blood in the water?

Part of me wants to say "if he's having mental health issues, we should back off"
The other part of me says "if you step on the field, you're 100% fit"

A conundrum...

 

[grumbleguts]

I'm sorry but as much as I can't stand Goodes, the people who get offended about his speaking out about racism and Aboriginal disadvantage are having a laugh, surely? The award isn't called 'Blindly Patriotic and Jingoistic Australian of the Year' - it's an award of recognition not a trinket to acknowledge that you blindly think Australia is just grouse at everything and never gets it wrong.

It's not unknown for activists to win the award (Mick Dodson for example). It's Buttrose won it a few year backs and said she'd use the spotlight from it to speak out about ageism in Australia. Did you go and boo her when she does her boring morning show as a result? Rosie Batty didnt gush patriotically when she won, she used it to continue to talk about domestic violence - have you gone to boo her at one of her talks yet?

When someone wins an award primarily because of their work in the Aboriginal community and against racism - then if they don't use that stage to speak on those issues then they are utter hypocrites.

By all means say that there was likely someone who did more work for Aboriginal people who deserved the award - that's probably 100% accurate - however that's an issue for the AOTY committee - not Adam Goodes. It's not like he led a Karl Stefanovic-like campaign for the Gold Logie. It's a nomination based award.

Please continue to boo Goodes for his antics on the field and his subsequent media protection over his sniper ways. However the AOTY argument does absolutely nothing to counter the racism angle.

Sadly it isn't the award that people are upset about, yes his stance accepting it I think gets people's noses out of joint, but mostly it's how he has carried himself since. No other australian of the year has ever announced himeself they way Goodes does. "Hi I'm Adam Goodes, your Australian of the year." (name

OK - Here's the relevant excerpt from what Goodes said on 25 May 2013, one day after the incident (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...rence-transcript/story-fni5fan7-1226650424034). I have selected a few sections of what he said, that in my opinion match very closely what you wanted to hear:

"It was a 13-year-old girl but it's not her fault."

"She's 13, she's still so innocent, I don't put any blame on her. Unfortunately it's what she hears, the environment she's grown up in that has made her think it's ok to call people names. I can guarantee you right now she would have no idea, you know, how it makes anyone feel by calling them an ape."

"But I think the person that needs the most support is the little girl, you know. People need to get around her, she's 13, she's uneducated. You know if she wants to pick up the phone and call me and apologise, I'll take that phone call and I'll have a conversation with that girl about 'You know what, you called me a name, this is how it made me feel', and it's school stuff, it is school stuff."

And after she called him and he spoke with her, he tweeted "Just received a phone call from a young girl apologizing for her actions. Lets support her please".

Not that I think its going to change anyone's mind, but I think it is important that everyone acknowledge the facts.

OF course it's the little girl who needs the most support, some bloody idiot pointed her out on national television.

 

[Bikefreak]

Sadly it isn't the award that people are upset about, yes his stance accepting it I think gets people's noses out of joint, but mostly it's how he has carried himself since. No other australian of the year has ever announced himeself they way Goodes does. "Hi I'm Adam Goodes, your Australian of the year." (name



OF course it's the little girl who needs the most support, some bloody idiot pointed her out on national television.

Agree should have dealt with it behind closed doors.

But hey Goodes and Jetta were initially happy to take it up with the crowd and all of Australia by responding in public and on national television.

Buggered if I know how any journo can watch from a distance...hear booing....and then make the absolute determination that it is racist behaviour across the board. How the hell would they know what peoples intent is or what people are thinking????

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[Gralin]

Sadly it isn't the award that people are upset about, yes his stance accepting it I think gets people's noses out of joint, but mostly it's how he has carried himself since. No other australian of the year has ever announced himeself they way Goodes does. "Hi I'm Adam Goodes, your Australian of the year." (name



OF course it's the little girl who needs the most support, some bloody idiot pointed her out on national television.

This seems to be something a lot of people have pointed to as a justification for booing Goodes and it's bull, he was racially vilified by someone in the crowd are you saying he knew before he pointed that it was going to be a 13 yo girl? Are you suggesting it is ok for a 13yo to racially vilify someone because they are just a kid?

Part of me wants to say "if he's having mental health issues, we should back off"
The other part of me says "if you step on the field, you're 100% fit"

A conundrum...

If he steps away now because he realises he isn't 100% fit and then comes back does that make it ok to start doing what put him in that mental state to him again?

I'm not talking about letting him know you don't like something he did during a game, I'm talking about the constant booing every time he gets near the footy. If we know that the constant booing led to Goodes suffering depression and having to stop playing footy then what are we saying if we start it up again as soon as he feels well enough to return to the field?

 

[mainehawk]

Part of me wants to say "if he's having mental health issues, we should back off"
The other part of me says "if you step on the field, you're 100% fit"

A conundrum...

That's very sad

 

[Prudster]

I encourage you to read about gamer gate. The pattern there is exactly the same as here. Some people made quite obviously gender-based attacks on a female developer which has now escalted to the point where idiots were making death threats and 'doxing' participants. Really serious stuff and all supported by intricate justifications that came well after the initial attacks. All this happened because people couldn't walk away from what was in part a gender-based attack without merit. Maybe some criticisms were relevant but that was entirely lost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy

I am quite familiar with Gamergate. Yet another 'controversy' that was taken up by mainstream media and blown out of proportion because of a complete lack of balance in the way it was reported. Yet another situation where someone claims that an entire group of people (a group that included all genders and all races) are sexist, racist, etc. simply based on there being a small minority that were.

Do you actually believe anybody would have given a shit if the criticism on gamers was that some people were racist and sexist? I doubt it. The reason people reacted was because the mainstream media picked it up and sensationalised it with piece after piece about how gamers was sexist, despite many gamers being women, and the majority of gamers having nothing to do with the attacks on a few women.

I assume you're familiar with Total Biscuit? Someone on the gamers side who was also doxed and received death threats. Hell, some of the people sent him messages saying they wished he would die of the cancer he was receiving treatment for. It doesn't prove the points of either side, all it proves is that there are arseholes on both sides of every argument, and that we shouldn't assume the lowest common denominator is the norm.

Again, i reiterate, the individuals in these situations need to look at what they're doing and realise that even though their intentions might be noble, they are at times causing further damage. Crowds don't stop booing because you ask them to. They stop booing when they get bored or when the issues they have are addressed. Since nobody in the AFL or AFL media seems to even care what these reasons are beyond "OMG RACISTS!", i can see the booing going on until Goodes retires.

 

[mainehawk]

I am quite familiar with Gamergate. Yet another 'controversy' that was taken up by mainstream media and blown out of proportion because of a complete lack of balance in the way it was reported. Yet another situation where someone claims that an entire group of people (a group that included all genders and all races) are sexist, racist, etc. simply based on there being a small minority that were.

Do you actually believe anybody would have given a shit if the criticism on gamers was that some people were racist and sexist? I doubt it. The reason people reacted was because the mainstream media picked it up and sensationalised it with piece after piece about how gamers was sexist, despite many gamers being women, and the majority of gamers having nothing to do with the attacks on a few women.

I assume you're familiar with Total Biscuit? Someone on the gamers side who was also doxed and received death threats. Hell, some of the people sent him messages saying they wished he would die of the cancer he was receiving treatment for. It doesn't prove the points of either side, all it proves is that there are arseholes on both sides of every argument, and that we shouldn't assume the lowest common denominator is the norm.

Again, i reiterate, the individuals in these situations need to look at what they're doing and realise that even though their intentions might be noble, they are at times causing further damage. Crowds don't stop booing because you ask them to. They stop booing when they get bored or when the issues they have are addressed. Since nobody in the AFL or AFL media seems to even care what these reasons are beyond "OMG RACISTS!", i can see the booing going on until Goodes retires.

That's really, really sad

 

[mainehawk]

That's really, really sad

"Individuals in these situations need to look at what they're doing"...... exactly.....why boo for gods sake?