Mega Thread Adam Goodes starring in Lord of the Flies - The only place to post Goodes stuff - Read the OP

[Glacier]

It has only ever had one meaning.

actually, I dont mean to be a smart arse but the swastika has been used for thousands of years prior to the Nazis as a symbol of auspiciousness by religions such as Hindu and Buddhism

 

[Ordovician]

My relatives landed here in chains after the English had plundered and conquered their homes.

Their comrades in chains were the surplus displaced poor people that the industrial revolution cast into permanent impoverishment in their hundreds of thousands by the destruction of tradition mass occupations e.g. weavers, and the open theft by the ruling class via acts of parliament, of almost all of the common lands in the arable areas of England thereby preventing landless agricultural workers from being able to feed themselves by subsistence farming and lets not forget the approximate Northern Scottish equivalent, the infamous highland clearances.

And to make matters jollier the early settlement of these people was played out against a backdrop of the longest global war in human history to date, the French Revolutionary-Napoleonic wars of 1792 to 1815.

Given this context the settlement of Australia was never going to be anything but harsh for all concerned and by far worst of all for the aboriginal population with the tragic consequences that played out.

 

[Dragz]

As I said, I quite liked the dance at the time. But it was just plain stupid to aim it at the supporters.

Indeed. How great would it have been if prior to the start of the game, he and Jetta had performed it together? Even if it was aimed at the Carlton supporters. Would have been fantastic. Doing it when you're flogging a team was the disappointing bit.

As for comparing it to the Haka, (for those inclined to do so) if the NZ guys did that, after scoring a try, to the opposition supporters, whilst flogging their team, I dare say they'd be booed into oblivion too.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Yep. It was wrong to humiliate and shame a little kid like that.

Surely Goodes has to accept some responsibility for the current situation?
I can't recall him being booed 2 years ago of further back again.
It seems to be a relatively recent issue.

As for the recent issue part you are right, nothing better for a fan to know that you have gotten under the skin of the player, I know I got to Richo one day a number of years ago at the G when he manned by Heebe, told him he was soft all day and I got eye balled back by him, only for Richo to give away a free kick, deep in attack, for the first physical thing he did all day, shoved Heebe in the back, blatant, Hawks up by only a few points, siren goes, Hawks win. I followed Richo around the fence to tell him how easy he was to get at, he knew it too. Even had people telling me that day to give it a rest, glad I didn't.
My old man former VFL footballer said as I grew up to never let the crowd get to you, as they will never ease up and always know they can get you. Just a shame Adam never got good advice on this and whole lot of other things.

 

[IdiotBox]

Cheers Argy on sexing me out....My twin sister sends her regards.

I wondered about that as I always had you very much in the bloke camp.

 

[Great 2008]

Sorry, but that says more about the supporters than it does about goodes directing something at the crowd (over the other side of a boundary).

I live in Sydney, and i have been to many swans games- crowd behaviour like that is par for the course. Anyone who has been to a game in Sydney would know it is one of the more unpleasant experiences as a fan. It is in no way incited by a single player. It's ludicrous to suggest as much. You are putting a condition on this form of self expression which was a tribute, and something to be embraced. You don't have the right to do that. Just let him do it and appreciate it and anyone who wants to act like a clown afterwards- well call them to account for being fukwits.

Had we all had more education and connection to the true history of our indigenous people, this may not have been as big a surprise for people as it seems to have been. Perhaps you could direct some of your passion towards asking our minister for indigenous affairs why we don't know more about indigenous people, instead of placing a condition on his celebration.

He did not incite people to that behaviour, that behavior is inherent in people who think football is the place to fight and be aggressive. It isn't.

I think the majority of people go to watch football, not be educated. I interpreted his dance to be something else. However, as you posted the football field is for free dance interpretation as well. Feel free to interpret it the way you want.

Expressing yourself on the football field, playing politics, handcuff symbol to mates in jail, war dances, giving the crowd the bird, using your finger as an anal probe, sledging, firing off an imaginary shotgun, mimed self injecting or using the choking parody, polarises people. As they say let your footy do the talking. I admire what Adam is trying to do off the field.

Find me one supporter who goes to an actual game of footy to be enlightened about Indigenous culture. Then find me one who does not absolutely love what the 'indigenius' player brings to the game. Keep the on field stuff about footy!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yep. It was wrong to humiliate and shame a little kid like that.

Surely Goodes has to accept some responsibility for the current situation?
I can't recall him being booed 2 years ago of further back again.
It seems to be a relatively recent issue.

Okay - Goodes heard the comment - quickly turned and pointed. He barely had time to react. I am sure his critical thinking at that time wasn't "the pitch of that voice dictates to me that the person in question is a younger girl, I am going to make a statement here. Mwahahaha, my evil work here is done, take that kiddies".

He was called an ape - which when directed at a black person is pretty damn racist. Whether that was the girl's intention or not, she and her mother seem like simple folk - so maybe they were ignorant to its impact - however I can't see how calling a black person an ape/monkey is intended as harmless banter. Regardless - Goodes doesn't have mind reading skills. He heard a racist comment directed at him with his back turned - he turned and pointed them out to security. He was also the one asking for the media to back off after seeing the media storm assembling on a potentially dimwitted 13 year old girl.

I would have expected Burgoyne, Cyril, Gibbo and even Poppy to make a similar stand if someone standing 1 metre away from them hurled such BS abuse.

You can also be damn sure that if I heard someone yell out 'get back to the zoo' at a game that I would be dialing the anti-social behaviour number quick as a flash.

Attack Goodes all you want on his on-field scummy behaviour. His stance against racism though - get stuffed. Next you'll be saying Nicky Winmar was unfairly antagonising misunderstood Collingwood fans.

 

[Flukey!]

Okay - Goodes heard the comment - quickly turned and pointed. He barely had time to react. I am sure his critical thinking at that time wasn't "the pitch of that voice dictates to me that the person in question is a younger girl, I am going to make a statement here. Mwahahaha, my evil work here is done, take that kiddies".

He was called an ape - which when directed at a black person is pretty damn racist. Whether that was the girl's intention or not, she and her mother seem like simple folk - so maybe they were ignorant to its impact - however I can't see how calling a black person an ape/monkey is intended as harmless banter. Regardless - Goodes doesn't have mind reading skills. He heard a racist comment directed at him with his back turned - he turned and pointed them out to security. He was also the one asking for the media to back off after seeing the media storm assembling on a potentially dimwitted 13 year old girl.

I would have expected Burgoyne, Cyril, Gibbo and even Poppy to make a similar stand if someone standing 1 metre away from them hurled such BS abuse.

You can also be damn sure that if I heard someone yell out 'get back to the zoo' at a game that I would be dialing the anti-social behaviour number quick as a flash.

Attack Goodes all you want on his on-field scummy behaviour. His stance against racism though - get stuffed. Next you'll be saying Nicky Winmar was unfairly antagonising misunderstood Collingwood fans.

This is what I love about BF.
Irrational, over reactions on such a massive scale its absurd.

I knew I shouldn't have posted in this thread.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

This is what I love about BF.
Irrational, over reactions on such a massive scale its absurd.

I knew I shouldn't have posted in this thread.

I merely provided a rebuttal to your claims that Adam Goodes was out of line to point out racism based on facts that only came to light after the fact.

Feel free to demonstrate why I'm wrong as opposed to just saying I'm irrational. The exchange of ideas is why this form exists.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Okay - Goodes heard the comment - quickly turned and pointed. He barely had time to react. I am sure his critical thinking at that time wasn't "the pitch of that voice dictates to me that the person in question is a younger girl, I am going to make a statement here. Mwahahaha, my evil work here is done, take that kiddies".

He was called an ape - which when directed at a black person is pretty damn racist. Whether that was the girl's intention or not, she and her mother seem like simple folk - so maybe they were ignorant to its impact - however I can't see how calling a black person an ape/monkey is intended as harmless banter. Regardless - Goodes doesn't have mind reading skills. He heard a racist comment directed at him with his back turned - he turned and pointed them out to security. He was also the one asking for the media to back off after seeing the media storm assembling on a potentially dimwitted 13 year old girl.

I would have expected Burgoyne, Cyril, Gibbo and even Poppy to make a similar stand if someone standing 1 metre away from them hurled such BS abuse.

You can also be damn sure that if I heard someone yell out 'get back to the zoo' at a game that I would be dialing the anti-social behaviour number quick as a flash.

Attack Goodes all you want on his on-field scummy behaviour. His stance against racism though - get stuffed. Next you'll be saying Nicky Winmar was unfairly antagonising misunderstood Collingwood fans.

See your point and accept it, but I'd like to add that alot of supporters also seen this action as Adam Goodes' Winmar moment, it was all the rage in the week leading into indigenous round and was at the forefront of alot of press releases, some feel that Goodes wanted his onfield moment as well. He could have just walked away and shook his head in disgust as Buddy did down in tassie, the perpetrator was found, outed and dealt with. Just without the look at me aspect.

 

[Flukey!]

89Adopter , don't worry about it mate.
It's a hot topic and I don't want to get into it.
People can misinterpret too easily.

 

[arupist]

actually, I dont mean to be a smart arse but the swastika has been used for thousands of years prior to the Nazis as a symbol of auspiciousness by religions such as Hindu and Buddhism

In fact, used in most cultures, including North American Indian.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

89Adopter , don't worry about it mate.
It's a hot topic and I don't want to get into it.
People can misinterpret too easily.

Fair call. I don't want to come across as I'm attacking anyone. I just enjoy arguing (a divisive interest, I know) so when I'm asking someone to argue it's not me being a d!ck I just really want to discuss something.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

actually, I dont mean to be a smart arse but the swastika has been used for thousands of years prior to the Nazis as a symbol of auspiciousness by religions such as Hindu and Buddhism

Glacier, I find your avatar a little creepy and it's freaking me out.

 

[Furn2]

Guy on SEN rang up and said he has 2 guys working for him. 1 is black and 1 is white. The white guy is a good worker the black guy isnt.

Whenever he pulls the black guy up on his poor work, he claims that it is just racism.

The opinion of the SEN people was that as long as the black guy thinks its racism then it is.

Is this really where we are heading ?

 

[Glacier]

Glacier, I find your avatar a little creepy and it's freaking me out.

My job here is done then

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Guy on SEN rang up and said he has 2 guys working for him. 1 is black and 1 is white. The white guy is a good worker the black guy isnt.

Whenever he pulls the black guy up on his poor work, he claims that it is just racism.

The opinion of the SEN people was that as long as the black guy thinks its racism then it is.

Is this really where we are heading ?

All started when we started to say offense has been taken where none was offered.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Guy on SEN rang up and said he has 2 guys working for him. 1 is black and 1 is white. The white guy is a good worker the black guy isnt.

Whenever he pulls the black guy up on his poor work, he claims that it is just racism.

The opinion of the SEN people was that as long as the black guy thinks its racism then it is.

Is this really where we are heading ?

No. My last workplace the most efficient people there were two Chinese women. That doesn't mean every single workplace in the world is the same. Anecdotes are just that, anecdotes. I could ring SEN tomorrow and claim to be a junior coach - doesn't make it true.

 

[Argy]

The opinion of the SEN people was that as long as the black guy thinks its racism then it is.

Yep, that sounds reasonable.

 

[Furn2]

No. My last workplace the most efficient people there were two Chinese women. That doesn't mean every single workplace in the world is the same. Anecdotes are just that, anecdotes. I could ring SEN tomorrow and claim to be a junior coach - doesn't make it true.

You're missing the point, it has nothing to do with which race are better workers, everyone knows there is good and bad from all creeds.

Its the fact that people are saying that whether something is racism depends totally on the whether the "victim" thinks it is. eg if someone boos Goodes for being a stager, but Goodes thinks its because of his colour then that is racism.

If I go for a job and dont get it, and I decide its solely because my dad is West Indian then can I sue for discrimination ? I get to decide right ?

Sure they didn't hire me because I have no idea how to do that job, but I took it as racism and thats what racism is.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

You're missing the point, it has nothing to do with which race are better workers, everyone knows there is good and bad from all creeds.

Its the fact that people are saying that whether something is racism depends totally on the whether the "victim" thinks it is. eg if someone boos Goodes for being a stager, but Goodes thinks its because of his colour then that is racism.

If I go for a job and dont get it, and I decide its solely because my dad is West Indian then can I sue for discrimination ? I get to decide right ?

Sure they didn't hire me because I have no idea how to do that job, but I took it as racism and thats what racism is.

My point was anecdotes are just anecdotes. They aren't proof of anything. I could tell you right now that I am actually Chevy Chase. The burden is now on you to prove that wrong. My point is the guy on SEN could just be a racist flog who spins a BS story about how 'PC has gone mad' and probably doesn't manage anyone.

And, no, that's not how the Anti-Discrimination Act works at all. And if you have a worker of any specific subset who isn't performing and that is proven then so long as sufficient warnings were given you can sack them. It is pretty damn hard for employers to sack anyone for under-performing (if they aren't casuals or contractors) and if the necessary steps are taken to fire someone are all done properly - then the person would have every right to claim unfair dismissal but would almost definitely lose.

 

[diggydig]

Yep. It was wrong to humiliate and shame a little kid like that.

What nonsense. She called him an ape.

Should Goodes and the other indigenous players just put up with it when the crowds start throwing bananas at them (which has happened to African soccer players in Europe)? Or are you saying they only have to put up with it when the person throwing the banana is under some arbitrary age, decided by you?

If my 11 year old son had done what the teenage girl had done, I would be happy for him to cop the consequences. That's how people learn.

Goodes is being picked on because he won't be silent about entrenched racism and indigenous disadvantage. The crowds are trying to bully him into submission, so that he stops reminding Australia about this unfinished business.

If the booing crowds succeed in forcing Goodes into retirement, the message to our indigenous players is "We love you as entertainers, but never forget that you are sub-human, so if we choose to call you an ape, we are allowed to do so, and we will destroy you if you ever complain about it, or if you ever complain about the status of your people. As far as we are concerned the fate of your people is because you are lazy and hopeless, it is in no way connected to our ancient theft of your land and all that followed, so we bear no responsibility for fixing that injustice."

 

[Furn2]

My point was anecdotes are just anecdotes. They aren't proof of anything. I could tell you right now that I am actually Chevy Chase. The burden is now on you to prove that wrong. My point is the guy on SEN could just be a racist flog who spins a BS story about how 'PC has gone mad' and probably doesn't manage anyone.

And, no, that's not how the Anti-Discrimination Act works at all. And if you have a worker of any specific subset who isn't performing and that is proven then so long as sufficient warnings were given you can sack them. It is pretty damn hard for employers to sack anyone for under-performing (if they aren't casuals or contractors) and if the necessary steps are taken to fire someone are all done properly - then the person would have every right to claim unfair dismissal but would almost definitely lose.

The guy that rang SEN could be lying, who cares? thats not the point, the hosts of the show said that if your worker feels you are being racist then you are. No matter how justified you might be, or no matter what the laws say, no matter what procedures you follow, if he feels your being racist then you are.

The consencus is becoming, if Goodes feels the boos are racist then they are, right ?

 

[Taskmaster]

What nonsense. She called him an ape.

Should Goodes and the other indigenous players just put up with it when the crowds start throwing bananas at them (which has happened to African soccer players in Europe)? Or are you saying they only have to put up with it when the person throwing the banana is under some arbitrary age, decided by you?

If my 11 year old son had done what the teenage girl had done, I would be happy for him to cop the consequences. That's how people learn.

Goodes is being picked on because he won't be silent about entrenched racism and indigenous disadvantage. The crowds are trying to bully him into submission, so that he stops reminding Australia about this unfinished business.

If the booing crowds succeed in forcing Goodes into retirement, the message to our indigenous players is "We love you as entertainers, but never forget that you are sub-human, so if we choose to call you an ape, we are allowed to do so, and we will destroy you if you ever complain about it, or if you ever complain about the status of your people. As far as we are concerned the fate of your people is because you are lazy and hopeless, it is in no way connected to our ancient theft of your land and all that followed, so we bear no responsibility for fixing that injustice."

This is the biggest load of bullshit I have read. You've just taken it to some other realm.

I'll say it again, has nothing to do with race, people are just fed up with his bullshit! But some of you continue to accuse, yep, that's correct, accuse others of being racist's or having racist undertones.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The guy that rang SEN could be lying, who cares? thats not the point, the hosts of the show said that if your worker feels you are being racist then you are. No matter how justified you might be, or no matter what the laws say, no matter what procedures you follow, if he feels your being racist then you are.

The consencus is becoming, if Goodes feels the boos are racist then they are, right ?

Then the hosts are simplistic like most of the entire media over this issue. Most people in life take a common sense approach. If I correct a colleague's work and they play the race card randomly with zero proof then they are likely to look the fool. If someone calls Adam Goodes an ape - or tells him to get back in the zoo - he has every right to play the race card. There are shades of grey in every situation and to not realise that is just foolish.

And thankfully the numpties at SEN don't write legislation.