Coach Adam Simpson Megathread est. 2017 - Staying for 2024, Lyon’s Cryin’

[greatwhiteshark]

Did you expect them to perfectly implement a new game plan against real opposition in round 1 of the AFL season?

No not perfectly, but each and everytime you do it, yes you will make mistakes and it will cost goals but it is how you learn. Reverting back to how we always play might save you some face but thats about it.

 

[Chump Change]

I can't see him staying if we go 1-10 or something like that. He's not the super coach I thought he might be, he's taken us to a premiership yes well done and to a GF but beyond that he hasn't even taken us beyond a semi final. He's a 7/10 coach, in comparison Woosh was a 5/6 out of 10 coach and Malthouse was a 9/10.

His gameplan has been worked out and is obsolete & he doesn't have the nous to evolve the style or create a new one. The feeling of death around the club will continue until we move him on and the rebuild is officially started.

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The game plan is different, it's just our midfield "doesn't do" contested ball. Simmo coached it out of them. It got us a flag but this is the downside.

I'm happy to keep him for a season or two. We still need to stock up on high draft picks. I don't like the idea of a new coach coming in and having to wade through this shit. Let Simmo do the heavy lifting. After 2 years if we can see some top end talent really coming on (with guys who can contest the footy) then keeping him is an option. Otherwise you hand the keys to a new guy with Ginbey, Hewitt, Culley, Hough, Bazzo plus another 2 top 5 picks, and some other promising kids playing between 0 and 40 games.

I just don't see an upside bringing in a new coach now. The media are saying how shocking we are and seem to be at a loss why. A decade without a top 10 pick tends to do that. And you can't just "snap out of it". The media talk this way because they're on a weekly cycle of soundbites. The reality is different - no matter the coach, we're rubbish and we need to stock up with top draft picks. If there's ever a club who will ignore the media noise, it's us.

Ever noticed Duggan? Looked a gun in his first few years. People were talking captaincy. Now he's not even the crumb of a dried dog shit on your neighbour's lawn. It's easy to play in good sides, hard to play in bad sides. We just have to wait it out until Ginbey, Hewitt, Allen etc can cut it with the best.

 

[PremiershipNo4]

Lol, maybe you should watch some press conferences instead of constantly having a sook on here.

He said it quite a few times.

You're so focused on 'synergy' that you didn't pay attention to anything else he's said.

LOL Do you have anything negative at all to say about Simpson’s coaching? Or is it all rainbows and butterflies.
Run along!

 

[bzparkes]

LOL Do you have anything negative at all to say about Simpson’s coaching? Or is it all rainbows and butterflies.
Run along!

I'm prepared to give him a chance, now that they've admitted the rebuild and a change of style. It takes time. If it sucks and doesn't work, then I'll be happy to lay the boots in.

In my old career of being a restaurant manager, if I was tasked to completely change the style of a restaurant when migrating from old premises to new ones, it wasn't me that got the arse if it was difficult to implement, it was the employees who failed to do so.

If the plan itself sucked, then I was the one accountable. That's how management works.

 

[DanWCE]

I'm prepared to give him a chance, now that they've admitted the rebuild and a change of style. It takes time. If it sucks and doesn't work, then I'll be happy to lay the boots in.

In my old career of being a restaurant manager, if I was tasked to completely change the style of a restaurant when migrating from old premises to new ones, it wasn't me that got the arse if it was difficult to implement, it was the employees who failed to do so.

If the plan itself sucked, then I was the one accountable. That's how management works.

Fetch me a daiquiri

 

[WCErevival]

Its like people think Simmo has a game controller in the box and is able to implement the new gameplan for 5 minutes, then change it back to the old one at the click of a button. Like he said in his chat the other day, the senior guys will take a while to adapt because they've been playing a certain way for so long. It took Freo half a season under Lyon to change to his system.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

The game plan is different, it's just our midfield "doesn't do" contested ball. Simmo coached it out of them. It got us a flag but this is the downside.

I'm happy to keep him for a season or two. We still need to stock up on high draft picks. I don't like the idea of a new coach coming in and having to wade through this s**t. Let Simmo do the heavy lifting. After 2 years if we can see some top end talent really coming on (with guys who can contest the footy) then keeping him is an option. Otherwise you hand the keys to a new guy with Ginbey, Hewitt, Culley, Hough, Bazzo plus another 2 top 5 picks, and some other promising kids playing between 0 and 40 games.

I just don't see an upside bringing in a new coach now. The media are saying how shocking we are and seem to be at a loss why. A decade without a top 10 pick tends to do that. And you can't just "snap out of it". The media talk this way because they're on a weekly cycle of soundbites. The reality is different - no matter the coach, we're rubbish and we need to stock up with top draft picks. If there's ever a club who will ignore the media noise, it's us.

Ever noticed Duggan? Looked a gun in his first few years. People were talking captaincy. Now he's not even the crumb of a dried dog s**t on your neighbour's lawn. It's easy to play in good sides, hard to play in bad sides. We just have to wait it out until Ginbey, Hewitt, Allen etc can cut it with the best.

It wasn't coached out of them.

Our squad is still built around a kick/ mark brand of football that denies the opposition possession. You can't get middle paced footballers with mediocre ground ball games to play fast and take risks. When they do the ball hits the deck and they lose the subsequent contest.

Agree with giving Simpson time, so long as the direction of the football department has a vision beyond Simpsons tenure. Guys like Burgiel, Hough, Noah give me some hope that the priorities have changed.



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[Dylan82]

I was looking for one thing and one thing only in round 1, a game plan that has been turned upside down. Run and Stun footy and take game on at all cost.
The Collingwood game plan.
McRea implemented Collingwoods game in one short pre season. Simmo is still coughing up excuses saying how long it takes to change blah blah blah.

I don't care about results as I know we have senior players not hungry and young kids learning, so the results don't matter.
But they do matter if you are still playing the same game plan still which for the most part of round 1 is what we saw.

WTF has the footy department been doing all pre season?

This.

Let's be honest, the majority of footballers are not necessarily the brightest of sparks, but instructing tactics is not like you're trying to teach them orbital mechanics.

Take McRae at Collingwood. It is just three instructions:

• Always position corridor-side of opposition markers
• Starting positions are never wider than the centre square
• When the opposition lose the ball, everybody goes

Simple stuff. You could take those instructions to juniors and get a decent feedback output in a single preseason.

In a top-level professional environment I could imagine the process could easily be accelerated.


Gameplan at West Coast is just smoke and mirrors. Some fiddling around the edge gets done offensively in terms of attempts to utilise halfbacks to overlap diagonal runs towards the corridor - but they consistently fall flat as soon as the opposition places an extra in the corridor to patrol those runs. Otherwise the possession style still remains relatively unchanged, just now it's rushed and error-prone. Depressingly, it is even worse on the defensive side of things - Jones' cameo in 2022 is arguably the sole change that has occurred in the last 3 years - and that was simply a positional change rather than any defensive reimagining.


Changing tactics is nowhere near as difficult as what is being communicated to West Coast supporters. It is being used as an excuse for the consistent failure of what has become ideology, and the reluctance to diverge away from it.

 

[Dylan82]

The game plan is different, it's just our midfield "doesn't do" contested ball. Simmo coached it out of them. It got us a flag but this is the downside.

I'm happy to keep him for a season or two. We still need to stock up on high draft picks. I don't like the idea of a new coach coming in and having to wade through this s**t. Let Simmo do the heavy lifting. After 2 years if we can see some top end talent really coming on (with guys who can contest the footy) then keeping him is an option. Otherwise you hand the keys to a new guy with Ginbey, Hewitt, Culley, Hough, Bazzo plus another 2 top 5 picks, and some other promising kids playing between 0 and 40 games.

I just don't see an upside bringing in a new coach now. The media are saying how shocking we are and seem to be at a loss why. A decade without a top 10 pick tends to do that. And you can't just "snap out of it". The media talk this way because they're on a weekly cycle of soundbites. The reality is different - no matter the coach, we're rubbish and we need to stock up with top draft picks. If there's ever a club who will ignore the media noise, it's us.

Ever noticed Duggan? Looked a gun in his first few years. People were talking captaincy. Now he's not even the crumb of a dried dog s**t on your neighbour's lawn. It's easy to play in good sides, hard to play in bad sides. We just have to wait it out until Ginbey, Hewitt, Allen etc can cut it with the best.

The squad is full of players who do contested ball very well. Their want for the contest has not been coached out of them.

The problem resides (and has done for many years now) in the irony that West Coast is actually an exceedingly difficult team for opponents to counter when it comes to stoppages, especially if Naitanui is involved.

In response they get extra players to the stoppages that block and congest Eagles players, and cut them off from inside to outside transition - conversely once the ball does clear the pack, opposing outnumbers are there to clean it up and generate chains that can rapidly move possession forward through the corridor.


Even up the numbers around stoppage and the midfield output from West Coast completely transforms.

 

[FKASC]

This.

Let's be honest, the majority of footballers are not necessarily the brightest of sparks, but instructing tactics is not like you're trying to teach them orbital mechanics.

Take McRae at Collingwood. It is just three instructions:

• Always position corridor-side of opposition markers
• Starting positions are never wider than the centre square
• When the opposition lose the ball, everybody goes

Simple stuff. You could take those instructions to juniors and get a decent feedback output in a single preseason.

In a top-level professional environment I could imagine the process could easily be accelerated.


Gameplan at West Coast is just smoke and mirrors. Some fiddling around the edge gets done offensively in terms of attempts to utilise halfbacks to overlap diagonal runs towards the corridor - but they consistently fall flat as soon as the opposition places an extra in the corridor to patrol those runs. Otherwise the possession style still remains relatively unchanged, just now it's rushed and error-prone. Depressingly, it is even worse on the defensive side of things - Jones' cameo in 2022 is arguably the sole change that has occurred in the last 3 years - and that was simply a positional change rather than any defensive reimagining.


Changing tactics is nowhere near as difficult as what is being communicated to West Coast supporters. It is being used as an excuse for the consistent failure of what has become ideology, and the reluctance to diverge away from it.

The reason why other coaches can implement change quickly is because they are new coaches and they want to implement change quickly.

I am very sceptical that most coaches are capable of changing their approach and ways of thinking to sufficiently overhaul an ageing team’s gameplan. You need to change the coach.

 

[Rowan18]

The squad is full of players who do contested ball very well. Their want for the contest has not been coached out of them.

The problem resides (and has done for many years now) in the irony that West Coast is actually an exceedingly difficult team for opponents to counter when it comes to stoppages, especially if Naitanui is involved.

In response they get extra players to the stoppages that block and congest Eagles players, and cut them off from inside to outside transition - conversely once the ball does clear the pack, opposing outnumbers are there to clean it up and generate chains that can rapidly move possession forward through the corridor.


Even up the numbers around stoppage and the midfield output from West Coast completely transforms.

Any idea why our coaches can't see this and make a change? Their system has been well broken since at least mid 2021 (though some coaches figured it out in 2019 and 2020).

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The squad is full of players who do contested ball very well. Their want for the contest has not been coached out of them.

The problem resides (and has done for many years now) in the irony that West Coast is actually an exceedingly difficult team for opponents to counter when it comes to stoppages, especially if Naitanui is involved.

In response they get extra players to the stoppages that block and congest Eagles players, and cut them off from inside to outside transition - conversely once the ball does clear the pack, opposing outnumbers are there to clean it up and generate chains that can rapidly move possession forward through the corridor.


Even up the numbers around stoppage and the midfield output from West Coast completely transforms.

Incorrect, we have show for multiple years we are arguably the worst club in the league for contested ball. The stats also show this.
We can talk better set ups, etc etc until the cows come home but right now we don't have a hungry list of players who want the ball at all cost, we are easily pushed aside and this all comes back to the coach.
Not being in the inner sanctum once can only have an opinion but I don't believe we have strong non negotiables in our plans. The only way game plans work is to have very tough non negotiables. Do it or move on type of stuff. 99.99% will buy into that type of non negotiable.
I just don't believe we have any of them under Adam and because he has been there so long I am not sure he can implement them.
Adam is the coach and so be it. We are stuck with it one way or another. But I think this club needs a new coach, new message, new world.

 

[bzparkes]

Any idea why our coaches can't see this and make a change? Their system has been well broken since at least mid 2021 (though some coaches figured it out in 2019 and 2020).

I recall Simpson saying sometime last year that working on a new game plan for them means attempting to develop something nobody else is doing and evolving it to beat current teams plans.

I note that a number of people have suggested copying Collingwood's plan, which seems pointless to me. We won in 2018 with elements of of the Hawks' style, however the 'web' evolved from 2015 to overcome all other styles.

Perhaps they're simply trying something different under whatever plans they have. Hopefully we'll see something successful come together during this season but it's not a quick fix.

 

[The wily weagle]

I recall Simpson saying sometime last year that working on a new game plan for them means attempting to develop something nobody else is doing and evolving it to beat current teams plans.

Surely you don't actually believe that do you?

If so, i have this tower I own in Paris that I will sell you for the incredibly low price of $10,000

 

[bzparkes]

Surely you don't actually believe that do you?

If so, i have this tower I own in Paris that I will sell you for the incredibly low price of $10,000

You think they're just going to copy everyone else and constantly be behind the pack? Being a copy-cat is a great way to never be successful.

Or, do you still want them to play 'man on man' and lose every game, because that style died out in the mid 90s?

I believe they're working on something that's different from what we've served up since '18. There's been enough evidence but the usual critics can't get past the 10 minutes of last game where the ball was chipped around and ignored the larger parts where the team attempted to transition a lot faster/differently. Whether that's ultimately successful or fails will take time to determine.

Players constantly fumbling the ball is going to make any gameplan look like shit.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I recall Simpson saying sometime last year that working on a new game plan for them means attempting to develop something nobody else is doing and evolving it to beat current teams plans.

I note that a number of people have suggested copying Collingwood's plan, which seems pointless to me. We won in 2018 with elements of of the Hawks' style, however the 'web' evolved from 2015 to overcome all other styles.

Perhaps they're simply trying something different under whatever plans they have. Hopefully we'll see something successful come together during this season but it's not a quick fix.

No one has said copy the Collingwood plan, they have said McRea became coach and one short pre season later their game plan was totally turned on it's head. The reality however is that most of the good sides all play a very similar game plan. So yes Adam should be looking at How Geelong, Collingwood, Carlton, Brisbane etc play and should be aiming at the least to be playing that type of plan.

 

[The wily weagle]

You think they're just going to copy everyone else and constantly be behind the pack? Being a copy-cat is a great way to never be successful.

Or, do you still want them to play 'man on man' and lose every game, because that style died out in the mid 90s?

I believe they're working on something that's different from what we've served up since '18. There's been enough evidence but the usual critics can't get past the 10 minutes of last game where the ball was chipped around and ignored the larger parts where the team attempted to transition a lot faster/differently. Whether that's ultimately successful or fails will take time to determine.

Players constantly fumbling the ball is going to make any gameplan look like s**t.

So you mean to tell me, that in some 150 years of football, Simpson is putting together a super secret new game style that nobody else has apparently ever seen before, to beat other teams?

I am sorry, but, LOL. That's as funny as it is ridiculous.

Look at the evidence in both the pre season and last week, barely any change has been made to a long established gameplan despite the spin coming from the club. whereas, for comparisons sake, Macrae was able to make massive game plan changes in the space of a pre season

So if you think that based on what we are seeing that there is some secret new state of the art gameplan being cooked up in the west coast strategy room, you are either very naive or very gullible

 

[Convocation]

I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
Should Simpson be sacked this year or next, the number of available, yet undiscovered coaches we have to choose from in this thread, gives me the hope that whichever one of you takes over Simpson role, will build and develop a list and game style that should see us win a dynasty of premierships to where the AFL puts in restrictions to stop our dominance.

Good luck (not required) to whichever one of you above is successful in the coveted senior coaching role.

 

[Keys]

So you mean to tell me, that in some 150 years of football, Simpson is putting together a super secret new game style that nobody else has apparently ever seen before, to beat other teams?

I am sorry, but, LOL. That's as funny as it is ridiculous.

Look at the evidence in both the pre season and last week, barely any change has been made to a long established gameplan despite the spin coming from the club. whereas, for comparisons sake, Macrae was able to make massive game plan changes in the space of a pre season

So if you think that based on what we are seeing that there is some secret new state of the art gameplan being cooked up in the west coast strategy room, you are either very naive or very gullible

Football evolves unless you want to suggest the way it’s played today is the same as it was 150 years ago

West Coast developed a game plan that in 2018 was different to most sides and helped bring the ultimate success

At around the same time, Richmond were developing their own style that was diametrically opposed to ours and as it turned out, more sustainable

Melbourne, Geelong and now Collingwood have further evolved that style that’s been assisted by rule changes, particularly the stand rule

Those rule changes and the way the game has evolved have rendered our old game plan obsolete. The club brought in Schofield and Knights to help remodel our game

Circumstances in 2022 torpedoed those efforts putting us even further behind than we already were

What Simpson has said, quite rightly, is that we need to come up with not only a new system, but one that tries to get ahead of what other clubs are doing. There’s no point replicating what the top teams are currently doing because by the time we catch-up the game will have moved on.

Now, it’s fine to say that and it’s a worthy aim. Achieving it is another matter especially whilst we’re trying to transition/rebuild the playing list at the same time

 

[FKASC]

I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
Should Simpson be sacked this year or next, the number of available, yet undiscovered coaches we have to choose from in this thread, gives me the hope that whichever one of you takes over Simpson role, will build and develop a list and game style that should see us win a dynasty of premierships to where the AFL puts in restrictions to stop our dominance.

Good luck (not required) to whichever one of you above is successful in the coveted senior coaching role.

OK Adam

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Football evolves unless you want to suggest the way it’s played today is the same as it was 150 years ago

West Coast developed a game plan that in 2018 was different to most sides and helped bring the ultimate success

At around the same time, Richmond were developing their own style that was diametrically opposed to ours and as it turned out, more sustainable

Melbourne, Geelong and now Collingwood have further evolved that style that’s been assisted by rule changes, particularly the stand rule

Those rule changes and the way the game has evolved have rendered our old game plan obsolete. The club brought in Schofield and Knights to help remodel our game

Circumstances in 2022 torpedoed those efforts putting us even further behind than we already were

What Simpson has said, quite rightly, is that we need to come up with not only a new system, but one that tries to get ahead of what other clubs are doing. There’s no point replicating what the top teams are currently doing because by the time we catch-up the game will have moved on.

Now, it’s fine to say that and it’s a worthy aim. Achieving it is another matter especially whilst we’re trying to transition/rebuild the playing list at the same time

Agree with this but most game plans are a tweek or an add on to what you already have. As our game plan is so far removed from anything in the AFL arena we need to catch up first before we can proceed passed others.
That we are so far behind the 17th best game plan in the AFL very much disturbs me and questions how can a club so professional and big be in this situation.
Interesting year ahead.

 

[The wily weagle]

Football evolves unless you want to suggest the way it’s played today is the same as it was 150 years ago

West Coast developed a game plan that in 2018 was different to most sides and helped bring the ultimate success

At around the same time, Richmond were developing their own style that was diametrically opposed to ours and as it turned out, more sustainable

Melbourne, Geelong and now Collingwood have further evolved that style that’s been assisted by rule changes, particularly the stand rule

Those rule changes and the way the game has evolved have rendered our old game plan obsolete. The club brought in Schofield and Knights to help remodel our game

Circumstances in 2022 torpedoed those efforts putting us even further behind than we already were

What Simpson has said, quite rightly, is that we need to come up with not only a new system, but one that tries to get ahead of what other clubs are doing. There’s no point replicating what the top teams are currently doing because by the time we catch-up the game will have moved on.

Now, it’s fine to say that and it’s a worthy aim. Achieving it is another matter especially whilst we’re trying to transition/rebuild the playing list at the same time

To play devil advocate, you don't establish a new game plan by making small changes either

We are already in the midst of the clubs worst losing streak. I, and I think most of this board, would rather Simpson make radical, wholesale changes to our game plan and have us lose anyway, then to try and be subtle and tweak what we are already doing and proceed down the same, well worn path

The longer he tries to delay the inevitable, the more the club gets dragged down deeper into the quagmire of mediocrity

 

[Goroyals22]

Did Adam just blow up his his own synergy argument at today’s presser??

He stated the the forward line has synergy working together… so that leaves the defence and midfielders..

The defence basically been the same players for the past 5 years give or take one coming and going, cole missing a year , witho being in and out synergy can’t be an issue which only leaves the midfield..

Again if his synergy piece revolves around Williams being the ruck or the interchange then he is just throwing a buzz word out there to try and baffle those that don’t watch.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Garry Lyon giving the Eagles a serious bake after one game into the season is a good indication of where Simpson sits. The East Coast media are definitely watching. The panel all acknowledged the challenges the team had last year with Covid. But they weren't about to give us a free pass either. Once the media gets stuck into a vulnerable coach, they generally don't let go until something happens -- either the coach gets sacked or the team picks up.

I reckon this GWS game is serious. If we don't win, we could very easily be 0-9 or 0-10.

Coaches don't recover from that.

Senior players start to throw in the towel... junior players get frustrated and stop listening to the coach... fans start dumping trucks of manure at team headquarters...

Adam Simpson's career is on the line this week.

 

[Cuzz09]

Honourable loss a good result or should we expect a win?



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