Banter Geelong V Richmond - GO!

[Wosh]

In the interests of keeping your back and forth shite fights out of match threads so normal people can talk.

Keep it clean and above the shorts
Off topic rubbish clogging up match threads will be moved here, knock yourselves out.

 

[Mr Meow]

the veterans are all carrying the rest of the team, even after seeing evidence to the contrary.

Now let's do the same analysis on Richmond players in 2024, number of times in the coaches votes:

5 times - Nankervis (old), Bolton (gone)
4 times - Taranto, Baker (gone), Rioli (gone)
3 times - Vlastuin (old)
2 times - Martin (cooked/gone), Balta, Prestia (old/cooked)

If the 3 who want out get their way, that leaves you with Taranto and Balta for players under 30 that clocked coaches votes multiple times.

Compared to Holmes, Stengle, Miers, Zuthrie, Dempsey, Bowes, Mannagh, SDK and Close for Geelong.

If you can figure out that 9 > 2, I'll be extremely proud of you.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Now let's do the same analysis on Richmond players in 2024, number of times in the coaches votes:

5 times - Nankervis (old), Bolton (gone)
4 times - Taranto, Baker (gone), Rioli (gone)
3 times - Vlastuin (old)
2 times - Martin (cooked/gone), Balta, Prestia (old/cooked)

If the 3 who want out get their way, that leaves you with Taranto and Balta for players under 30 that clocked coaches votes multiple times.

Compared to Holmes, Stengle, Miers, Zuthrie, Dempsey, Bowes, Mannagh, SDK and Close for Geelong.

If you can figure out that 9 > 2, I'll be extremely proud of you.

Honestly dude I just don’t care. I’ve told you enough times we are going to get good picks from the draft and our current stocks aren’t great.

Geelong will let their football do the talking. So I’ll just wait at see what they put out.

I think we just leave it here tbh. Good luck with the rest of the season

 

[Mr Meow]

Honestly dude I just don’t care. I’ve told you enough times we are going to get good picks from the draft and our current stocks aren’t great.

Geelong will let their football do the talking. So I’ll just wait at see what they put out.

I think we just leave it here tbh. Good luck with the rest of the season

Which is perfectly fine, but you're the one demanding Geelong supporters to accept that the 30+ year olds are completely carrying the rest. If you a) watched the games or b) accepted simple evidence to the contrary then you'd realise it is the 20-29 year olds playing better than 2023 that has seen our rise up the ladder. Our veterans are nowhere near their 2022 or even 2023 level.

And no - I don't think Geelong are a real shot at a flag. We have just been competitive outside of a few embarrassing losses. For some reason "neutrals" NEED us to be upset about that situation. Worry about your own club.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Which is perfectly fine, but you're the one demanding Geelong supporters to accept that the 30+ year olds are completely carrying the rest. If you a) watched the games or b) accepted simple evidence to the contrary then you'd realise it is the 20-29 year olds playing better than 2023 that has seen our rise up the ladder. Our veterans are nowhere near their 2022 or even 2023 level.

And no - I don't think Geelong are a real shot at a flag. We have just been competitive outside of a few embarrassing losses. For some reason "neutrals" NEED us to be upset about that situation. Worry about your own club.

I’m not demanding anything and I’m stating my opinion. Just get a bit sick of “Geelong are the best at everything”

I honestly find it baffling that somebody would even say “we are contending and rebuilding at the same time” especially with the oldest list in the league. It’s like saying you have half a flat tire. But you do you.

 

[Mr Meow]

I’m not demanding anything and I’m stating my opinion. Just get a bit sick of “Geelong are the best at everything”

I honestly find it baffling that somebody would even say “we are contending and rebuilding at the same time” especially with the oldest list in the league. It’s like saying you have half a flat tire. But you do you.

Nobody is saying Geelong are the best at everything. They're squeezing what they can out of the orange while a stack of veterans retire and decline. They're integrating about 4 new players into the best 23 from 2021 onwards while they do so. Some youngsters are doing well enough to not be completely disheartened. That's it.

Where neutrals get frustrated is when we refuse to say Geelong's 20-26 year olds this season have been truly pathetic. It's weird but it is what it is.

 

[PhatBoy]

I’m not demanding anything and I’m stating my opinion. Just get a bit sick of “Geelong are the best at everything”

I honestly find it baffling that somebody would even say “we are contending and rebuilding at the same time” especially with the oldest list in the league. It’s like saying you have half a flat tire. But you do you.

We aren’t mate.

That’s the thing. No one needs to be told ‘your club is the best at everything.’

The point is that at every turn someone - often in the past yourself or in many cases it seems to be a Tigers fan for some unknown reason hence it gets shifted to this thread - seems to have this insatiable need to downplay even the most minor success (which at this stage is what this season is) and tell us ‘it doesn’t count because of something that might happen.’

Every club is entitled to move forward however circumstances dictate and I for one - not because of who I support but just because the idea that starting any season not aiming to win the comp or at the very least trying to make finals just makes no sense to me - would like to think that every team is always doing their best and that is what probably pricks my attention the most: that any team would ever be criticised for not accepting ‘you have to be crap for a while.’

And it seems to me that a lot of the flak our club gets is for that exact reason. That we simply don’t accept that we have to be crap.

I’d rather waste a few years trying to win and failing, than toss the baby out with the bath water, start again, and then maybe end up not winning anyway, and THEN have to start again all over.

That’s why Cats fans probably empathise best with Swans fans, Pies fans, and to an extent Eagles and, I hate saying it, Hawks fans. Because they are the clubs that in the last quarter of a century have always done as much as they can to try and beat the system.

With West Coast and the Hawks eventually it just happened that they couldn’t. To me with West Coast as much as anything it was a combination of factors that got them and that ridiculous injury toll got them as much as anything.

 

[My Tilly]

I’m not demanding anything and I’m stating my opinion. Just get a bit sick of “Geelong are the best at everything”

I honestly find it baffling that somebody would even say “we are contending and rebuilding at the same time” especially with the oldest list in the league. It’s like saying you have half a flat tire. But you do you.

Geelong have lost Guthrie and Selwood from their midfield this past 18 months.
Add to that the decline of Duncan, Rohan and Hawkins.

Stewart, Cameron and Dangerfield are still elite.
It's been very much a transitional year and the likes of Dempsey, Humphries, Mannagh have solidified themselves in our best 22.

De Koning & Bruhn have had a disastrous end to the year on the injury front and are two crucial pieces to come back in on the eve of finals.

We are going fine.
Richmond on the other hand . . .

 

[Cleansweep17]

We aren’t mate.

That’s the thing. No one needs to be told ‘your club is the best at everything.’

The point is that at every turn someone - often in the past yourself or in many cases it seems to be a Tigers fan for some unknown reason hence it gets shifted to this thread - seems to have this insatiable need to downplay even the most minor success (which at this stage is what this season is) and tell us ‘it doesn’t count because of something that might happen.’

Every club is entitled to move forward however circumstances dictate and I for one - not because of who I support but just because the idea that starting any season not aiming to win the comp or at the very least trying to make finals just makes no sense to me - would like to think that every team is always doing their best and that is what probably pricks my attention the most: that any team would ever be criticised for not accepting ‘you have to be crap for a while.’

And it seems to me that a lot of the flak our club gets is for that exact reason. That we simply don’t accept that we have to be crap.

I’d rather waste a few years trying to win and failing, than toss the baby out with the bath water, start again, and then maybe end up not winning anyway, and THEN have to start again all over.

That’s why Cats fans probably empathise best with Swans fans, Pies fans, and to an extent Eagles and, I hate saying it, Hawks fans. Because they are the clubs that in the last quarter of a century have always done as much as they can to try and beat the system.

With West Coast and the Hawks eventually it just happened that they couldn’t. To me with West Coast as much as anything it was a combination of factors that got them and that ridiculous injury toll got them as much as anything.

Hawks? They built their dynasty on high draft picks, they go with the flow of the AFL cycle it’s happening this year.

Swan and Pies? Sure but Pies have had 3 flags in 7 decades (We’ve had 8) and Swans are even worse than that. Pies also got Naicos via f/s

No matter how you slice it clubs win flags based of high draft selections which means either bottoming out, club mergers or advantages with f/s picks.

No team wins flags with their best player being an end of 1st round pick like Holmes and just trading in players. There simply isn’t enough draft capital to do that when you keep finishing high.

This is why I say what I say, to me you built your dynasty on great f/s selections (not trolling here btw) that had great longevity and built the core of your flag teams. You then traded in players to top up until today. Trading in players costs a premium so it eventually won’t become sustainable anymore and it will collapse.

And it’s not just players either, what happens when C Scott retires or assistants or medical staff. RFC has been decimated by that and look where we are. Yze may be a dud like Wallace idk, us tigers supporters call Luke Meehan (our new medical head) the butcher cause it takes a full season for players to come back from hammy injuries.

Look I don’t think I’m being unreasonable here. But like I said we’ll see what happens with Geelong.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Geelong have lost Guthrie and Selwood from their midfield this past 18 months.
Add to that the decline of Duncan, Rohan and Hawkins.

Stewart, Cameron and Dangerfield are still elite.
It's been very much a transitional year and the likes of Dempsey, Humphries, Mannagh have solidified themselves in our best 22.

De Koning & Bruhn have had a disastrous end to the year on the injury front and are two crucial pieces to come back in on the eve of finals.

We are going fine.
Richmond on the other hand . . .

The draft exists google it

 

[My Tilly]

Who’s on Reid? Better not be Kolo he doesn’t do well against Dusty type players.

Shame Enright was born 5 years too early.
He would have kept your fanboy to modest stats.

As for Reid, the guy can jump and actually become a threat in the air.

 

[My Tilly]

The draft exists google it

Pretty confident you're club is irrelevant for the next decade.
You have never done a rebuild properly.
It's going to be beautiful to watch and see the Richmond supporters turn on their club.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Honestly dude I just don’t care. I’ve told you enough times we are going to get good picks from the draft and our current stocks aren’t great.

Lmao the whole reason people are having a go at you is your pre-season prediction of Geelong to finish 14th, behind Richmond, and that Richmond had better youth.

It wasn't a one off, either. It was an opinion that you plastered all over this site for months on end.

You've since been proven incorrect, (like hilariously off the mark) and now you're pulling the "We'll wait and see, time will tell" routine.

It's already happened dude, there's nothing left to be said.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hawks? They built their dynasty on high draft picks, they go with the flow of the AFL cycle it’s happening this year.

Swan and Pies? Sure but Pies have had 3 flags in 7 decades (We’ve had 8) and Swans are even worse than that. Pies also got Naicos via f/s

No matter how you slice it clubs win flags based of high draft selections which means either bottoming out, club mergers or advantages with f/s picks.

No team wins flags with their best player being an end of 1st round pick like Holmes and just trading in players. There simply isn’t enough draft capital to do that when you keep finishing high.

This is why I say what I say, to me you built your dynasty on great f/s selections (not trolling here btw) that had great longevity and built the core of your flag teams. You then traded in players to top up until today. Trading in players costs a premium so it eventually won’t become sustainable anymore and it will collapse.

And it’s not just players either, what happens when C Scott retires or assistants or medical staff. RFC has been decimated by that and look where we are. Yze may be a dud like Wallace idk, us tigers supporters call Luke Meehan (our new medical head) the butcher cause it takes a full season for players to come back from hammy injuries.

Look I don’t think I’m being unreasonable here. But like I said we’ll see what happens with Geelong.

The Hawks had 2 - count them - 2 - seasons where they were out of action. And they weren’t by design. They went finals, finals, 11 wins, 12 wins, (they already had Hodge and Mitchell etc by this stage). They got Hodge and the #1 they used to get him was in via a trade from Fremantle, not by being shit.

Then they had two poor years and they were back in the finals again, then they won a comp. Yes that of course gave them some very important players but only one was from a high pick and we all know even he shouldn’t have even slipped through to them. Then if you remember, they spent the next decade - after one brief hiccup - in the top four. And again even now after a slightly longer slip, they’ve actually risen quicker than most people expected for the precise reason that their club and coach want them to compete.

And again - and no I’m not accusing you of trolling - but what does it matter what our dynasty was built on? Every team builds their side on something. The entire system is built on teams being handfed players on a platter for primarily being shit. Often for prolonged periods if you’re ’fortunate’ enough to be down the bottom for season after season.


Every team builds from the draft. It’s the primary source of players for every side in the competition, more or less. You don’t need to be getting the bulk of from the very top of it to win a handful of games at the end of the season though.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Lmao the whole reason people are having a go at you is your pre-season prediction of Geelong to finish 14th, behind Richmond, and that Richmond had better youth.

It wasn't a one off, either. It was an opinion that you plastered all over this site for months on end.

You've since been proven incorrect, (like hilariously off the mark) and now you're pulling the "We'll wait and see, time will tell" routine.

It's already happened dude, there's nothing left to be said.

Yeah well people didn’t think Pies would miss finals either it happens. It’s weird to keep bringing it up.

But yeah now we move on and wait for the coming years. It’ll be interesting.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Pretty confident you're club is irrelevant for the next decade.
You have never done a rebuild properly.
It's going to be beautiful to watch and see the Richmond supporters turn on their club.

Honestly I wouldn’t even care. A dynasty does that, you wouldn’t get it.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Shame Enright was born 5 years too early.
He would have kept your fanboy to modest stats.

As for Reid, the guy can jump and actually become a threat in the air.

That the same Enright that got wrecked by Stewart Dew? Sure thing bud

Dusty also had the best 1v1 win rate % since it has been recorded so yeah. Learn to troll better.

 

[PhatBoy]

That the same Enright that got wrecked by Stewart Dew? Sure thing bud

Dusty also had the best 1v1 win rate % since it has been recorded so yeah. Learn to troll better.

Do you base every view you have on half an hour of footy? So….. every player who got shat on in the 2018 prelim - they’re all garbage. Right.

PS. You might want to actually watch the game you’re referring to so regularly. At no point during Dew’s cameo was Enright remotely close to being matched up with him let alone beaten by him.

 

[My Tilly]

Honestly I wouldn’t even care. A dynasty does that, you wouldn’t get it.

You don't consider Geelong's team from 2007-2011 a dynasty?

That the same Enright that got wrecked by Stewart Dew? Sure thing bud

Dusty also had the best 1v1 win rate % since it has been recorded so yeah. Learn to troll better.

Enright did not play on Stewart Dew in the 2008 grand final if that is what you are referring to.

 

[Cleansweep17]

You don't consider Geelong's team from 2007-2011 a dynasty?



Enright did not play on Stewart Dew in the 2008 grand final if that is what you are referring to.

1. No, find me a dynasty that didn’t have a b2b in it. I’ll take it all back

You also didn’t have:

- The same coach for all 3 flags

-The same captain for all 3 flags

- The best player for all 3 flags

2. The whole defence couldn’t handle Dew. Which included Enright and Scarlett. Dusty would’ve taken them to the cleaners. Anyway I’ve done this debate to death with PB just leave it.

 

[My Tilly]

1. No, find me a dynasty that didn’t have a b2b in it. I’ll take it all back

2. The whole defence couldn’t handle Dew. Which included Enright and Scarlett. Dusty would’ve taken them to the cleaners. Anyway I’ve done this debate to death with PB just leave it.

That the same Enright that got wrecked by Stewart Dew? Sure thing bud

You said Enright got wrecked by Dew.
This to me automatically illustrates your lack of footballing knowledge in general.

I think you are right by saying just leave it.
You have no clue.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Anyway I’ve done this debate to death with PB just leave it.

Now you know how the rest of the site feels about you.

It's not even annoying, it's just boring and predictable after years of the same thing.

Everyone is tired of it dude. Just take it to the bay, or find something new.

 

[PhatBoy]

1. No, find me a dynasty that didn’t have a b2b in it. I’ll take it all back

You also didn’t have:

- The same coach for all 3 flags

-The same captain for all 3 flags

- The best player for all 3 flags

2. The whole defence couldn’t handle Dew. Which included Enright and Scarlett. Dusty would’ve taken them to the cleaners. Anyway I’ve done this debate to death with PB just leave it.

Corey Enright wasn’t a defender in 2008. He was a midfielder who rotated periodically through halfback. We had 6 specialist defenders (Scarlett, Mackie, Milburn, Hunt, Taylor, Harley) and Rooke on the bench who also rotated through there occasionally.

The amount you comment on that you have no idea about is stunning. Equally the amount of shit you base on small passages of sport makes you sound dummer than a box of hammers.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

It's no inconceivable they could win it this year. It's so open and I would potentially back them in against less experienced finals sides to get through an elimination final. If they play the Swans first week, they are a chance to win since Sydney's form has dropped so much since they looked unbeatable earlier in the year. The Cats you would also consider favourites against a lot of the interstate sides if they were to play against them in the Grand Final.

I'm no Geelong fan but they are an extremely well run club and I suspect they have worked something out that the rest of the competition haven't and that is that you can put yourself in a position to play finals year on year if you maintain a list of mature bodies vs the constant obsession with youth and the abundance of poorly run clubs.

They don't need to be the outright favourite to win each year, but to make the top 4 you are always going to be thereabouts and on your day a chance to win it all. The Crows were unbeatable and we smashed them, and we were unbeatable then Collingwood pantsed us. I will say though I don't think they are currently in the kind of form that will see them win it this year.

This is not the way I read it. If Cats play Swans first week of finals, which looks fairly likely, I fully expect the Swans to do x-rated things to them. They are worlds apart in performance this year. For example Cats are 7-5 v teams in the top 10, with a surplus of about 11 points in all those matches. Swans are 9-4 v top 10 teams but with a scoring surplus of 158 points from those matches - but that includes the 112 point loss to Port, where it was very obvious the Swans were not right, for whatever reason.

The Cats have a relatively weak midfield, or you could say fairly it is just weak full stop. And their defence is shaky at best(10 teams have conceded less than them.) Their forward line still functions pretty well(5th highest scoring team.) But Swans have scored the most and conceded the third least(they are basically within a pack of 6 teams all very close together for points against.)

The recent Sydney form is a red herring imo. The recent Cats form is, in any event, not without some quite serious concerns, with convincing losses to Saints and Dogs within their last 5 games.

In summary if Geelong plays Swans in a QF and wins, I will be pretty shocked.

 

[Tonythetiger]

1. No, find me a dynasty that didn’t have a b2b in it. I’ll take it all back

You also didn’t have:

- The same coach for all 3 flags

-The same captain for all 3 flags

- The best player for all 3 flags

2. The whole defence couldn’t handle Dew. Which included Enright and Scarlett. Dusty would’ve taken them to the cleaners. Anyway I’ve done this debate to death with PB just leave it.

This is a pretty interesting idea in terms of the lack of back to back, because in theory, you could have two sides both win three in five years with them alternating. Would we say there are two dynasties? Concurrent dynasties? Feels a little wrong. By the same metric you could also say that Richmond are a borderline dynasty.

 

[Cleansweep17]

This is a pretty interesting idea in terms of the lack of back to back, because in theory, you could have two sides both win three in five years with them alternating. Would we say there are two dynasties? Concurrent dynasties? Feels a little wrong. By the same metric you could also say that Richmond are a borderline dynasty.

Exactly right.

But it’s even simpler than that, they haven’t achieved what the others have (at least 3 flags including b2b) so can’t be part of the club.

Everybody including Geelong supporters know they are the odd ones out with the lack of b2b. They just don’t care and don’t mind sneaking into the club without anybody looking. I get it, it’s a great club.