Autopsy AFL 2024 Round 6 - Blues v Giants Sat April 20th 4:35pm AEST (Marvel)

[bourbons]

What obituaries? Firstly, Taylor and Coniglio are massive outs for the Giants - no one is saying otherwise. Ward played VFL on the weekend so I expect him to play.

But on your points about Carlton you have fallen into the trap that a lot of people do when they discuss the injuries of a team they don't support. And that is whether you rate the player or not is insignificant - it is all about where they sit in the pecking order within the team they play for. Saad, McGovern, Docherty and Cerra are all good players and I don't think many would disagree. Opposition fans may not think much of Motlop or Martin but they are our best small and mid-sized forward respectively. So that is why they are significant.

And then it becomes about context. Gov being out would not be as bad if we had Marchbank available but he is also out. So then we will likely have to use Young who would probably be the 5th ranked tall defender on our list. You look at Martin out and think well who can replace that - maybe Cuningham or Silvagni? No because they are out also. Look at Motlop and that out would not be as bad if we had Fogarty available but he is also out.

Looking at injuries in isolation is never going to give you the full sense of their impact on the team. These injuries are not an excuse for anything but they definitely make it harder to compete against the best teams which we come up against over the next 5 weeks.

Good post.

Fogarty is a much bigger out than people realise, people who don't watch us every week would probably consider him 'fringe' I guess but still our best defensive/tackling forward, compounded by no Martin who usually sticks his tackles too and also brings that 3rd/mid size marking option which makes it harder for teams to zone off on Harry and Charlie. No surprise those 2 were available during the majority of our late run last year.

Huge month and a half coming up, toughest part of our draw with substantial cogs looking like they'll be out injured during that whole stretch. GWS Geelong Collingwood Melbourne Sydney (away) Port (away), if we could split those games 3-3 that would be a great result I reckon and set us up for the rest of the season but a fair chance we go a bit worse than that. Really, really needed to not drop that game to Adelaide last week

 

[Rustica]

Blues by plenty

 

[carlton_99]

Good post.

Fogarty is a much bigger out than people realise, people who don't watch us every week would probably consider him 'fringe' I guess but still our best defensive/tackling forward, compounded by no Martin who usually sticks his tackles too and also brings that 3rd/mid size marking option which makes it harder for teams to zone off on Harry and Charlie. No surprise those 2 were available during the majority of our late run last year.

Huge month and a half coming up, toughest part of our draw with substantial cogs looking like they'll be out injured during that whole stretch. GWS Geelong Collingwood Melbourne Sydney (away) Port (away), if we could split those games 3-3 that would be a great result I reckon and set us up for the rest of the season but a fair chance we go a bit worse than that. Really, really needed to not drop that game to Adelaide last week

Yep should have won the last game but really with close games like that you need a bit of luck. We have done well with them over the last year so it was bound to swing the other way eventually. I'm still remaining positive that the team can compete at a high level despite the outs as we've seen them do in the past

 

[Mr Meow]

How's your tipping been this year? Need context before I put any weight behind this comment.

It's a little choppy and sometimes I forget to even do my tips.

So definitely don't take it to the bank. But if you do, can I get a 1% commission?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

It's just one of those vicious cycles. Blues fans cop it for 20+ years for being terrible, some Blues fans focus on giving back 20+ years of pent up frustration back to those who were giving them crap once the team starts winning more.

Most sane Blues fans know that we've been barely scratching out wins while playing below our best and most don't think that we should be bookies faves for this game.

If you think the loud ones are acting like B2B prems now, you better go into hibernation if that actually happens.

Respect. Some of you no doubt wouldn't be begrudged success if it came along.
We got a good peek at what the cycle looks like with Richmond fans. Some good one's among the flogs in there too.

 

[T2B_]

Good post.

Fogarty is a much bigger out than people realise, people who don't watch us every week would probably consider him 'fringe' I guess but still our best defensive/tackling forward, compounded by no Martin who usually sticks his tackles too and also brings that 3rd/mid size marking option which makes it harder for teams to zone off on Harry and Charlie. No surprise those 2 were available during the majority of our late run last year.

Huge month and a half coming up, toughest part of our draw with substantial cogs looking like they'll be out injured during that whole stretch. GWS Geelong Collingwood Melbourne Sydney (away) Port (away), if we could split those games 3-3 that would be a great result I reckon and set us up for the rest of the season but a fair chance we go a bit worse than that. Really, really needed to not drop that game to Adelaide last week

Yes for mine Fogarty is one of our biggest outs. Yes after his injuries he mightn't be able to kick over a jam tin, most opposition fans would likely consider him just a fringe player, but fair dinkum he goes at nothing less than 100% intensity all the time and is a ferocious tackler. Really a barometer for our pressure game.

 

[Zevon]

Teams are up

 

[Mr Meow]

Respect. Some of you no doubt wouldn't be begrudged success if it came along.
We got a good peek at what the cycle looks like with Richmond fans. Some good one's among the flogs in there too.

There's a lot of good Blues fans on here, and a fair bit of tongue in cheek from the ones who get people wound up.

The loud minority always leaves an impression, but ultimately who cares if fans get excited during a win streak and a peak into relevancy. And yes I'm aware they probably said the same about other teams in their glory days, for the older batch.

 

[Chief]

Yes for mine Fogarty is one of our biggest outs. Yes after his injuries he mightn't be able to kick over a jam tin, most opposition fans would likely consider him just a fringe player, but fair dinkum he goes at nothing less than 100% intensity all the time and is a ferocious tackler. Really a barometer for our pressure game.

Looking at the team lists in the OP - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...20th-4-35pm-aest-marvel.1379750/post-83137295 - what is your best 22 from the players in both teams?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Yes for mine Fogarty is one of our biggest outs. Yes after his injuries he mightn't be able to kick over a jam tin, most opposition fans would likely consider him just a fringe player, but fair dinkum he goes at nothing less than 100% intensity all the time and is a ferocious tackler. Really a barometer for our pressure game.

Without doubt. His F50 pressure and tackles i50 are key to us locking the ball in our half and slowing the rebound when we turn it over.
One of those selfless role players who most people gloss over, but has a bigger impact when out than some bigger names.

 

[2big sound]

Must have missed GWS's flags

Giant's premiership drought is nowhere near as long as Carlton's.

 

[Arr0w]

Giant's premiership drought is nowhere near as long as Carlton's.

Nothing to do with my response to the other poster

 

[Robertio]

Giant's premiership drought is nowhere near as long as Carlton's.

 

[Chism]

Giant's premiership drought is nowhere near as long as Carlton's.

Quality first post!

 

[The 747]

Yes for mine Fogarty is one of our biggest outs. Yes after his injuries he mightn't be able to kick over a jam tin, most opposition fans would likely consider him just a fringe player, but fair dinkum he goes at nothing less than 100% intensity all the time and is a ferocious tackler. Really a barometer for our pressure game.

Surprised that he's managed to do so well for himself, thought he was one of those we trade to the VFL. Good on him.

 

[T2B_]

Surprised that he's managed to do so well for himself, thought he was one of those we trade to the VFL. Good on him.

He looked like it for a period last season too but it was injuries setting him back in that case.

Don't think he'll ever be able to kick over 40m ever again but he's a terrier and does well enough by hand.

He'll never be a world beater but he's won me and many other Blues over.

 

[Randomizor]

GWS forwards gonna have a field day against Blues defence

 

[PP34]

I don't doubt the effect that an injury accumulation can have even if it involves role players or depth.

But good sides in good form can account for that. What they can't account for is if you had both Curnow and McKay out, or if you added Walsh to Cerra, or if Weitering joined Gov on the sidelines.

Weaker Carlton line ups last year put up some great performances. The form issues started before the absences piled up.

GWS themselves haven't been as imperious as people think. They and Carlton last week suffered badly from multiple in-game injuries to good platers, which are the one thing that can really hammer a team.

But I do accept the cascading effect that Gov out, with no Marchbank etc as backup, leaves on the Blues. I do think the Giants loss of Taylor against the twin towers balances things out though. He's so important.

At the end of the day injuries matter big time in the AFL and you will generally find the teams right at the top and the ones that win flags have a great run with injury.

You mention last year but when the team got on a run they actually had a good balanced team consistently available even if Walsh, McKay etc missed games.

You almost mention good teams in good form can win without key guys well Carlton hasn’t really played good footy at all to start the season so they’re hardly in form. It’s very easy to see why there is a lot of pessimism about this game and the next few weeks potentially.

Yes Curnow and McKay for example being out would be more drastic than what we have out now but I think you underestimate the flaws and gaps this list still has that become magnified with our current injury list.

Down back we’ve lost two of our faster players in McGovern and Saad who can open the game up going forward with their kicking. Defensively their speed is huge against a quick team like the Giants.

In the midfield it is very slow without Cerra and with Pittonet playing.

Up forward teams know where it’s going and our lack of crumbers is glaring.

It forces us to play ugly heavily contested footy like we did in the early days of Voss and it’s far too predictable.

When people bring up Docherty and Silvagni being out then yeah I’ll say it’s useless bringing them up because they’re not coming back so the team has to move on.

I personally think we’re a decent shot but I get why many don’t.

It isn’t some failing of the team if they can’t beat the best team in the comp so far while having a huge injury list. You can point to Coniglio, Cumming and Taylor being out but GWS has vastly superior depth and always has. They’ve always been a side that’s been able to cover injuries because of it.

We’ve added some depth but we’ve still good a way to go in that department and it’s going to take some special over the next month for us not to fall off.

 

[Mr Meow]

At the end of the day injuries matter big time in the AFL and you will generally find the teams right at the top and the ones that win flags have a great run with injury.

You mention last year but when the team got on a run they actually had a good balanced team consistently available even if Walsh, McKay etc missed games.

You almost mention good teams in good form can win without key guys well Carlton hasn’t really played good footy at all to start the season so they’re hardly in form. It’s very easy to see why there is a lot of pessimism about this game and the next few weeks potentially.

Yes Curnow and McKay for example being out would be more drastic than what we have out now but I think you underestimate the flaws and gaps this list still has that become magnified with our current injury list.

Down back we’ve lost two of our faster players in McGovern and Saad who can open the game up going forward with their kicking. Defensively their speed is huge against a quick team like the Giants.

In the midfield it is very slow without Cerra and with Pittonet playing.

Up forward teams know where it’s going and our lack of crumbers is glaring.

It forces us to play ugly heavily contested footy like we did in the early days of Voss and it’s far too predictable.

When people bring up Docherty and Silvagni being out then yeah I’ll say it’s useless bringing them up because they’re not coming back so the team has to move on.

I personally think we’re a decent shot but I get why many don’t.

It isn’t some failing of the team if they can’t beat the best team in the comp so far while having a huge injury list. You can point to Coniglio, Cumming and Taylor being out but GWS has vastly superior depth and always has. They’ve always been a side that’s been able to cover injuries because of it.

We’ve added some depth but we’ve still good a way to go in that department and it’s going to take some special over the next month for us not to fall off.

Of course they matter. I probably have to accept that BigFooty is essentially Umpiring.com and Injuries.com. Hopefully we have something more exciting to discuss after a match between two good teams, in a match that is essentially a coin flip.

 

[PP34]

Of course they matter. I probably have to accept that BigFooty is essentially Umpiring.com and Injuries.com. Hopefully we have something more exciting to discuss after a match between two good teams, in a match that is essentially a coin flip.

I hate when fans point to 1-2 injuries and blame them for every woe of a team but I think in this case our fans have a right to be annoyed and down about the team based off the current situation.

I think we can potentially still put up some good performances in the weeks to come but I just worry about how slow the team is and Voss continually throughout his coaching tenure at the Blues seems to ignore this and it has cost us multiple games.

Looks like he’s just hoping that Pittonet wins a heap of hit outs and our midfield just manages to continually get McKay and Curnow to mark it. It was far too predictable last week.

 

[Bagger72]

Crows got lucky last week. Not sure GWS will with half our team missing

Go Blues

 

[carlton_99]

It's a little choppy and sometimes I forget to even do my tips.

So definitely don't take it to the bank. But if you do, can I get a 1% commission?

How are you going after the opening two games?

 

[Mr Meow]

How are you going after the opening two games?

I am struggling on the Thursdays and Fridays. Saturdays and Sundays have been a lot better on me. I'm guessing that's in line with most people?

I will probably have to hide for a while from Carlton threads if the Blues do not win as predicted and instead get thrashed.

 

[FakeTaxi]

Tom and Toby to have field days. 30 and 4 for both.

Giants romp it in easily

 

[RAPPA]

Surprised that he's managed to do so well for himself, thought he was one of those we trade to the VFL. Good on him.

He was genuinely on the scrap heap for a fair while, playing 2s and barely able to break into the side. For many he was regarded as a likely delisting before the start of last year prior to earning a year extension, and during the first half of last season when we he wasn’t playing seniors.

But credit to him - he fought and persisted and since being selection in the second half of last year, his forward pressure and tackling have made him a best 23 player.

It could also be a reflection of our lack of pressure forwards, but his work in the forward 50 and off the scoreboard has been immense in the context of the side.