AFL Draw - You cant have your cake and eat it too

[Mr Magic]

I like footy, but seriously, this same issue year after year about who is facing who and how many times without any systematic formula to it (like what the NFL has) is just a farce.

This thing about splitting the league into weighted groups is BS as you know the AFL will break their own rules to always ensure that Carlton/Collingwood/Essendon play each other twice when this system fails to produce those fixtures in a given year.

If you want your annual blockbusters twice, time to bring in divisions to at least justify it, with a formula in place to ensure sides play sides out of their division an equal amount of times.

Can't do that, what would happen to anyone leaning on the corrupt side?

 

[LuckyBounce35]

Fix up the Etihad Stadium situation where certain clubs including mine are paying for the AFL to one day own the stadium for one dollar and the fixture won't be as important in terms of clubs finances. That is the real killer for mob at the end of the day.

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

I think the Dees posters here do make some valid points. However, to test the reasonableness of their assertions, I suggest the same posters should put up a 2014 draw that they think is fair. Easy to complain, much harder to come up with a better solution.....

 

[Markfs]

I wonder if the current weghting will survive once gc and gws rise to the top part of the ladder ?

It strikes me that the current rebuilding teams are starved of a chunk of talent over the past few seasons, less able to challenge the current ladder leaders. There was lways a bottom eight team getting into the top four and this may have to be assisted by drew weghting.

Call me cynical but once gws and gc are topnteams it wont be seen as a neccessity

In fact the problem is going to get worse with what I was talking about in the first post. Teams like WB and North will be playing GWS and GC and will be losing to them and will be losing money as well. They are going to screaming out to play easier teams like Collingwood and Carlton where they can win and make a million bucks....

 

[frankc]

I like footy, but seriously, this same issue year after year about who is facing who and how many times without any systematic formula to it (like what the NFL has) is just a farce.

This thing about splitting the league into weighted groups is BS as you know the AFL will break their own rules to always ensure that Carlton/Collingwood/Essendon play each other twice when this system fails to produce those fixtures in a given year.

If you want your annual blockbusters twice, time to bring in divisions to at least justify it, with a formula in place to ensure sides play sides out of their division an equal amount of times.

Could not agree more. The AFL needs to do something which eliminates/reduces the distortions the draw creates. As much as it pains me, the only feasible solution is a conference system where the teams in each conference have an equal chance against the other teams in their conference.

I think the AFL must have considered this, but I think they won't do so seriously (for now at least) as it will be the death knell of some Victorian clubs. Imagine the weaker Victorian clubs being exposed in this manner. Not only would such an approach eliminate the distortion of the draw, but also place significant pressure to eliminate the distortion of the excess number of Victorian clubs.

 

[frankc]

In fact the problem is going to get worse with what I was talking about in the first post. Teams like WB and North will be playing GWS and GC and will be losing to them and will be losing money as well. They are going to screaming out to play easier teams like Collingwood and Carlton where they can win and make a million bucks....

While there is some tongue in cheek in what you say, as clubs like GC and GWS get stronger it will place increasing pressure on the weaker Victorian clubs. While the AFL is being silent, I have always maintained that it is inevitable that at some stage the issue of the number of Victorian clubs will raise its head again.

 

[Markfs]

While there is some tongue in cheek in what you say, as clubs like GC and GWS get stronger it will place increasing pressure on the weaker Victorian clubs. While the AFL is being silent, I have always maintained that it is inevitable that at some stage the issue of the number of Victorian clubs will raise its head again.

Well I like to be entertaining but I still think I'm making a valid point. I think teams like Melb are happy to play GWS at this point in time so that they can scrape together a few wins.... which was the point of my first post.... They like the easy wins but they want to play in front of large crowds. But then I thought what happens when GWS get really good? And GC too. There is going to be a lot of complaints from the weaker Melbourne clubs when the AFL is making them play those two teams twice a year in front of ordinary crowds.

 

[telsor]

Well I like to be entertaining but I still think I'm making a valid point. I think teams like Melb are happy to play GWS at this point in time so that they can scrape together a few wins.... which was the point of my first post.... They like the easy wins but they want to play in front of large crowds. But then I thought what happens when GWS get really good? And GC too. There is going to be a lot of complaints from the weaker Melbourne clubs when the AFL is making them play those two teams twice a year in front of ordinary crowds.

So they'll want to play other teams for 'easy' wins. In any given year there will always be teams that are better and worse.

 

[The Dice Man]

Everyone plays each other once, home games rotated through a 2-year cycle. It's the only solution but the afl will never do it as it would cut their profits.... Even if it does restore a snippet of integrity to the 'competition'.

 

[telsor]

Everyone plays each other once, home games rotated through a 2-year cycle. It's the only solution but the afl will never do it as it would cut their profits.... Even if it does restore a snippet of integrity to the 'competition'.

Wont happen until they get to expand further...22 clubs, 21 games each year. But that's probably 20 years away.

 

[The Dice Man]

Yep but it is the only solution

 

[frankc]

Everyone plays each other once, home games rotated through a 2-year cycle. It's the only solution but the afl will never do it as it would cut their profits.... Even if it does restore a snippet of integrity to the 'competition'.

An equitable fixture can be achieved if you have two conferences of nine and play 25 games.

 

[citizen-erased]

What the **** else are you supposed to do with cake?

Be the saying right?
It's "you can't eat your cake and have it too"

 

[LeverPuller]

I think the Dees posters here do make some valid points. However, to test the reasonableness of their assertions, I suggest the same posters should put up a 2014 draw that they think is fair. Easy to complain, much harder to come up with a better solution.....

Well with some games already confirmed...and only doing home games...

V Freo - NT
V Port - NT (mid 6 double header)
V Collingwood -MCG QBD
V St Kilda (bottom 6 double header)
V GWS (bottom 6 double header)
V Bulldogs (Bottom 6 double header)
V Hawthorn
V Richmond (top 6 double header)
V Brisbane
V Sydney
V Essendon

Melbourne still have to travel 5 times based on that not including the NT trips. All 9 games at the MCG. 4 games against high-drawing Melbourne teams, satisfies the fixture requirements.

 

[Joshen]

The AFL has scheduled at least three Thursday night games in 2014 with Geelong making its season debut at Simonds Stadium against Adelaide under lights on a Thursday night in round one. Richmond hosts Carlton in the MCG's first home-and-away fixture in round two and Fremantle is expected to host Carlton at Subiaco more than halfway through the season on a Thursday night.

The Blues have again emerged as prime-time darlings of the AFL, with six Friday night games, two Thursday nights and its now customary Monday night fixture at Etihad Stadium against St Kilda. The Blues' final home-and-away game is against Essendon in the round-23 floating fixture that could prove a seventh Friday night.

And the club that pioneered that timeslot, North Melbourne, has also jumped into prime time contention with five Friday night games in 2014 - two more than last season.

The Cats had pushed for eight home games at Geelong but were awarded only seven - paying a price for hosting a qualifying final at Simonds with Etihad Stadium receiving two extra games next season as a result of the deal it struck with the AFL. At least five of those seven will be played under lights - four at night and one in twilight.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-doubles-tv-costs-20131025-2w7d1.html#ixzz2imWuJVPC

 

[Markfs]

Well with some games already confirmed...and only doing home games...

V Freo - NT
V Port - NT (mid 6 double header)
V Collingwood -MCG QBD
V St Kilda (bottom 6 double header)
V GWS (bottom 6 double header)
V Bulldogs (Bottom 6 double header)
V Hawthorn
V Richmond (top 6 double header)
V Brisbane
V Sydney
V Essendon

Melbourne still have to travel 5 times based on that not including the NT trips. All 9 games at the MCG. 4 games against high-drawing Melbourne teams, satisfies the fixture requirements.

what is all this top and bottom six double header thing? what does this mean? In American baseball, a double header is where they play two games on the one day. Are you suggesting this or is this some kind of new hipster talk?

 

[Markfs]

So they'll want to play other teams for 'easy' wins. In any given year there will always be teams that are better and worse.

You're dead right about that. There will always be easy wins in a particular year. What gets to me is your point that "they'll want to play other teams for easy wins" ....and still play teams that are going to bring in massive crowds so that they can share in those team's popularity. This is where the cake comes in. You cant have it both ways. You can schedule a fixture where the bottom clubs play other bottom clubs and yet still play the most popular clubs.....yes there will be some years where the popular clubs will be at the bottom of the ladder. Carlton was down a bottom a few years ago...Collingwood was too. But that is only going to be rare occasions. Teams like Melbourne cant say that they can have it both ways. It's just not possible.

Now I understand that the clubs arent totally responsible for this. The AFL wants to have blockbusters between the popular clubs because it brings in the money. However, I think the lowly clubs need to make strong statements that they want to play the best sides as much as other sides. That means playing everyone the same amount over two or three years. When the draw comes out, I'd like to hear Melbourne say that they are pissed off that they arent playing Hawthorn twice and Geelong twice and that they arent playing enough top teams. I want them to make clear statements, rather than accepting soft draws because they know that such draws will help their ladder position in the short term.

 

[Books]

Everyone plays each other once, home games rotated through a 2-year cycle. It's the only solution but the afl will never do it as it would cut their profits.... Even if it does restore a snippet of integrity to the 'competition'.

Integrity will ALWAYS give way to profits under this AFL administration.

 

[LeverPuller]

what is all this top and bottom six double header thing? what does this mean? In American baseball, a double header is where they play two games on the one day. Are you suggesting this or is this some kind of new hipster talk?

The teams Melbourne play twice. Based on the new fixturing rules thus top-middle-bottom 6

 

[Pessimistic]

If you are top six you will want to play the others because its match experience against teams you will play finals against.

There is a huge difference between the top three and bottom three which is masked by this seeded draw somewhat

 

[Bosk]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/no-easy-draw-for-the-top-sides-in-2013-20121031-28iml.html

Oh look, Hawthorn copping the hardest draw in the AFL two years running!

Knowing Vlad he will make next year the hat-trick.

 

[Joshen]

Oh look, Hawthorn copping the hardest draw in the AFL two years running!

Knowing Vlad he will make next year the hat-trick.

And you call us whingers....

Premier should get the hardest draw, after all they're only playing teams that finished below them

I do agree that you've had a couple of tough ones but I don't believe the AFL should do make up draws just like I don't believe umpires should give make up free kicks if they pay a few dodgy ones. The North Melbourne second hardest draw after finishing 8th is more egregious than Hawthorn having the hardest after finishing 2nd.

 

[Markfs]

The teams Melbourne play twice. Based on the new fixturing rules thus top-middle-bottom 6

ooooo... i thought you were talking about Melbourne games being played before Collingwood games so that the Melbourne boys got a taste of playing before a big crowd...

 

[Markfs]

Oh look, Hawthorn copping the hardest draw in the AFL two years running!

Knowing Vlad he will make next year the hat-trick.

any team that makes the opposition travel to Tassie to play a game needs to be treated like a very naughty boy.

 

[LeverPuller]

ooooo... i thought you were talking about Melbourne games being played before Collingwood games so that the Melbourne boys got a taste of playing before a big crowd...

Haha.

Does it make sense though?

Not bothering with the week-to-week, but...

V Freo - NT (Darwin)
V Port - NT (mid 6 double header) (Alice Springs)
V Collingwood (MCG)
V St Kilda (bottom 6 double header) (MCG)
V GWS (bottom 6 double header) (MCG)
V Bulldogs (Bottom 6 double header) (MCG)
V Hawthorn (MCG)
V Richmond (top 6 double header) (MCG)
V Brisbane (MCG)
V Sydney (MCG)
V Essendon (MCG)
@GWS (Skoda)
adelaide (AO)
West Coast (Subi)
carlton (MCG)
Gold Coast (Metricon)
Port Adelaide (AO)
North (Etihad
bullDogs (Etihad)
@St Kilda (Etihad)
richmond (MCG)
Geelong (SS)

As a basic idea, I think that's a pretty fair fixture.