AFL held plea bid without ASADA - Large Fries

[mxett]

It suggests they scrapped the existing documentation and wanted a fake so they could create doubt and claim that they were incompetent as opposed to cheats

so the entire thing was fake 'just incase the ACC are investigating one of our staff'

seriously?

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Hopefully all this shit ends soon everyone is sick of it either asada prove essendon are guilty or get over it and let the players move on and let them concentrate on there careers and lives , to me asada have nothing and are dragging it out so they can find something to pin on the bombers

Lol. So what about the 3 months we had to wait while the Bombers desperately tried to get anything ASADA knew thrown out?

 

[The_Reaper]

so the entire thing was fake 'just incase the ACC are investigating one of our staff'

seriously?

Well if you're cheating you'd have contingencies in place for getting caught.

 

[mxett]

So this conveniently leaves out the entire preseason when the program was at its zenith.......

yep. I think people are putting too much faith in a guy like Dank who is not a medical professional, he was a cowboy sports scientist. By the sounds of it, not highly organised one either.

I just wonder when they were investigated did they say "we don't know what was given to the players, but we know it was legal"?

Good question. If they failed to document everything could they be confident either way?

 

[mxett]

Well if you're cheating you'd have contingencies in place for getting caught.

of course, like keeping signed consents describing the substances you're taking.......

Explain how they were organised enough to make fake records. but leave them inadequate, but not organised enough to hide signed evidence

 

[Satan]

It suggests they scrapped the existing documentation and wanted a fake so they could create doubt and claim that they were incompetent as opposed to cheats

Where the consent forms done after the program started?

 

[The_Reaper]

of course, like keeping signed consents describing the substances you're taking.......

Explain how they were organised enough to make fake records. but leave them inadequate, but not organised enough to hide signed evidence

Yeah- dodgy consent forms where they wrote Thymosin in order to create doubt if it was Thymosin Alpha or Beta

 

[mxett]

Yeah- dodgy consent forms where they wrote Thymosin in order to create doubt if it was Thymosin Alpha or Beta

ok, lets think about this logically.

If you were cheating what would you do?
1. not keep any documentation or signed consents so there's nothing to incriminate you
2. keep signed documents which only mention wada compliant substances, and no ambiguous or potentially banned substances
3. keep signed consents with potentially banned substances described so they can be used against you if investigated

Logic says a cheat would do 1 and 2. It's illogical to think a cheat would opt for 3

 

[Hrovat24]

Lol. So what about the 3 months we had to wait while the Bombers desperately tried to get anything ASADA knew thrown out?

I'm not saying essendon is innocent as they are most likely guilty , asada have nothing though and are just trying to force the bombers to panic and admit there guilt

 

[ThirtyFive]

Hopefully all this shit ends soon everyone is sick of it either asada prove essendon are guilty or get over it and let the players move on and let them concentrate on there careers and lives , to me asada have nothing and are dragging it out so they can find something to pin on the bombers

Yep. Fantasy has no bounds. Government agencies have nothing better to do than "drag things out, so they can find something." How about, "ASADA are obligated to do their job, where they believe anti-doping rules that are designed to protect law abiding athletes have been flaunted." As a tax payer, and a contributor to sport for ThirtyFive years, that's what I'd expect them to do. Any more conspiracy theories? Bet you'll be avidly watching, 'Murder 101. How to get away with murder." and accepting that as fact, as well.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

ok, lets think about this logically.

If you were cheating what would you do?
1. not keep any documentation or signed consents so there's nothing to incriminate you
2. keep signed documents which only mention wada compliant substances, and no ambiguous or potentially banned substances
3. keep signed consents with potentially banned substances described so they can be used against you if investigated

Logic says a cheat would do 1 and 2. It's illogical to think a cheat would opt for 3

Unless Dank was a the guy doing the cheating. The players unintentionally took banned substances. Dank possibly obscured the fact that thymosin was TB4 rather than TA1 or thymomodulin intentionally. I actually think that he may have used the word thymosin because that is what he calls it at MRC and that is what Alavi calls it when he tests for its purity. It is actually the common name for it in the gym and body building scene too. He thought, like AOD, it was S0 and he could easily work around that. He just didn't realise it was S2. I guess it may have been a fall back option too, if players queried its status of S0, that he could always say it was one of the other two drugs.

 

[Hrovat24]

Why is this all dragging on then ? Why can asada prove essendon guilty ?

 

[ThirtyFive]

Hopefully all this shit ends soon everyone is sick of it either asada prove essendon are guilty or get over it and let the players move on and let them concentrate on there careers and lives , to me asada have nothing and are dragging it out so they can find something to pin on the bombers

Yep. Fantasy has no bounds. Government agencies have nothing better to do than "drag things out, so they can find something." How about, "ASADA are obligated to do their job, where they believe anti-doping rules that are designed to protect law abiding athletes have been flaunted." As a tax payer, and a contributor to sport for ThirtyFive years, that's what I'd expect them to do. Any more conspiracy theories? Bet you'll be avidly watching, 'Murder 101. How to get away with murder." and accepting that as fact, as well.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Hopefully all this shit ends soon everyone is sick of it either asada prove essendon are guilty or get over it and let the players move on and let them concentrate on there careers and lives , to me asada have nothing and are dragging it out so they can find something to pin on the bombers

You are either:
1) Lying.
2) Have inside knowledge nobody has - not even the defence lawyers.
3) Have yet to finish primary school and so cannot be held accountable for what you say.

 

[ThirtyFive]

Why is this all dragging on then ? Why can asada prove essendon guilty ?

Maybe the tribunal are doing their job. I doubt the tribunal members operate according to the 24 hour news cycle.

 

[Hrovat24]

You are either:
1) Lying.
2) Have inside knowledge nobody has - not even the defence lawyers.
3) Have yet to finish primary school and so cannot be held accountable for what you say.

I'm saying that based on where this case is heading asada seem to have nothing they can pin on essendon , everything they have tried and used had backfired on them and it seems like they are waiting for essendon to make a mistake , why else haven't the players been suspensed and got bans fines etc if asada had evidence this would all be over by now but guess what they don't seem to have anything that will stick at this moment in time

 

[Hrovat24]

Maybe the tribunal are doing their job. I doubt the tribunal members operate according to the 24 news cycle.

You believe that then , do you have any evidence that essendon are guilty ?

 

[ThirtyFive]

You believe that then , do you have any evidence that essendon are guilty ?

I don't believe that I made mention of what I believe. Unless, of course, you believe the tribunal shouldn't be doing their job. Nor, do I believe, that I commented on whether I believed Essendon are guilty. I do believe, however, that I expect ASADA to uphold the ASADA Act and the code in which they operate in.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I'm saying that based on where this case is heading asada seem to have nothing they can pin on essendon , everything they have tried and used had backfired on them and it seems like they are waiting for essendon to make a mistake , why else haven't the players been suspensed and got bans fines etc if asada had evidence this would all be over by now but guess what they don't seem to have anything that will stick at this moment in time

Trials don't last a day. Have you ever been to one? Even when a person is dead set guilty, the trial can last for weeks.

I have some circumstantial evidence that Dank gave them a banned drug. It wasn't TB4, it was GHRP 6. Dank told a friend of mine that wrks in anti ageing back in January 2012 that he was giving the Essendon players this peptide. He also told him that it was WADA compliant. It wasn't till this friend spoke to me in March 2012, that he realised that the drug Dank gave was banned. I have emails from then proving this conversation took place. This friend was interviewed by ASADA. They were aware of this. The problem is that Dank specialises in making sure what he gives is untraceable. Why do you think there were no records? Why do you think that there were no purchase orders even after hundreds of injections that cost thousands of dollars?
When a guy is that good at covering his tracks, it takes a lot of forensic accounting and investigating to piece together what happened.

Do I believe the players cheated. No, not intentionally. They, like my friend were duped. They were stupid not to check, but suspicious enough to ask for consents. The problem is he duped them there too. Do I believed they received banned substances? Yes. That is Dank's modus operandi, performance enhancing peptides that disappear within 6 hours from the blood stream so the chance of testers getting you in that period are next to zero especially when injections are once a week and then once a month as with Thymosin beta 4.

 

[telsor]

You believe that then , do you have any evidence that essendon are guilty ?

If there wasn't evidence that showed them guilty, why are they going to such great efforts to suppress it?

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

I'm not saying essendon is innocent as they are most likely guilty , asada have nothing though and are just trying to force the bombers to panic and admit there guilt

So they just spent 3-4 days presenting nothing to the tribunal?

 

[telsor]

So they just spent 3-4 days presenting nothing to the tribunal?

and Essendon has spend several days suppressing nothing.

I know lawyers get paid by the hour, but damn.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

I'm saying that based on where this case is heading asada seem to have nothing they can pin on essendon , everything they have tried and used had backfired on them and it seems like they are waiting for essendon to make a mistake , why else haven't the players been suspensed and got bans fines etc if asada had evidence this would all be over by now but guess what they don't seem to have anything that will stick at this moment in time

Backfired? What has backfired?

The interim report? The court case? The tribunal?

So far they've slowly progressed without anything falling through.

 

[Hrovat24]

Trials don't last a day. Have you ever been to one? Even when a person is dead set guilty, the trial can last for weeks.

I have some circumstantial evidence that Dank gave them a banned drug. It wasn't TB4, it was GHRP 6. Dank told a friend of mine that wrks in anti ageing back in January 2012 that he was giving the Essendon players this peptide. He also told him that it was WADA compliant. It wasn't till this friend spoke to me in March 2012, that he realised that the drug Dank gave was banned. I have emails from then proving this conversation took place. This friend was interviewed by ASADA. They were aware of this. The problem is that Dank specialises in making sure what he gives is untraceable. Why do you think there were no records. Why do you think that there were no purchase orders even after hundreds of injections that cost thousands of dollars.
When a guy is that good at covering his tracks, it takes a lot of forensic accounting and investigating to piece together what happened.

Do I believe the players cheated. No, not intentionally. They, like my friend were duped. They were stupid not to check, but suspicious enough to ask for consents. The problem is he duped them there too. Do I believed they received banned substances? Yes. That is Dank's modus operandi, performance enhancing peptides that disappear within 6 hours from the blood stream so the chance of testers getting you in that period are next to zero especially when injections are once a week and then once a month as with Thymosin beta 4.

I agree with you on all of that

 

[Broken_Chairs]

ok, lets think about this logically.

If you were cheating what would you do?
1. not keep any documentation or signed consents so there's nothing to incriminate you
2. keep signed documents which only mention wada compliant substances, and no ambiguous or potentially banned substances
3. keep signed consents with potentially banned substances described so they can be used against you if investigated

Logic says a cheat would do 1 and 2. It's illogical to think a cheat would opt for 3

the question's more complex than that. if there's cheating, who's involved in the cheating? is it dank? is it officials at the club? is it the players? is it any combination of those people?

what if pressure from doc reid and/or the players to have consent forms meant the club had to issue them? if the players were being kept in the dark and it was officials at the club that were involved in cheating, injecting someone with something that they didn't consent for when they had asked for a specific list of substances that they would be administered would have the club facing some pretty serious legal consequences beyond simply being caught by ASADA.

why be vague about thymosin at all? the vagueness can be used to argue that other forms of thymosin were used - just look at the effort ASADA have had to go through before it could charge for TB4? it also protects certain parties from litigation - players asked for thymosin and they got thymosin, it's their own fault it's not the one they wanted.