Roast AFL need to change the draft system next season for bottom four clubs.

[Carn The Berries]

It is though when the actual games are being compromised.

Im pointing out that a team that finished 12th getting the first pick would alleviate the tanking by teams 17 and 18.

Clearly, this season, there is a clear number one choice for the 1st pick, which is causing the tanking to occur.

And how would that change things? There would be proportionally more incentive for a team that is 11th/12th to finish in a position where they could possibly get the number 1 pick. 12th out of 18 isn't even in the bottom 1/3 of the competition, and you're suggesting they should be in the running for the best talent in the country?

 

[Free Agent]

Knew this thread was started by a WCE fan before I even clicked on it.

Typical a Kangas supporter would be against it. After all you are still wanting to lose every weekend. Don't lie to me about this weekend coming up. You want to lose it. Exactly my point and anyone arguing against it is only proving it more so.

 

[zyzzbruh]

The last few weeks have been horrible. Wanting you're side to lose to obtain a pick 1 is just is a horrible feeling.

Now that Eagles finally got a win to get us out of this feeling of wanting to lose the comp just really needs to change the draft system next year. And I'm saying this as Eagles will likely be bottom four. This might be demientrial to our club but there needs to be a lotto system for the bottom 4 clubs. AFL can't keep going on like this where the bottom four clubs have nothing to play for except trying to lose and get lowest possible like Kangas have been doing the last half of the season. After the game against the Bulldogs even though we won we lost the number 1 pick, there was a huge sense of relief that went with it. I'm sick of wanting my side to lose for a draft pick. It's ruined the integrity of the comp and the season for me. I haven't been able to enjoy watching my club at least wanting to win over the season. It just isn't enjoyable and winning should be enjoyable on every occasion.

Don't want to go through this exact same scenario next season. It needs to change for the good. Last place on the ladder should have something to fight for. Bottom 4 clubs need some initiative for winning games. Especially the bottom 2.

Lotto draft is the only way I feel it can be done. If a side is too bad in last place PP will always be in discussion but at least change the order of draft so it's not guaranteed. Take pick position out of clubs hands.

All this talk about tanking but I see none of it. WC played out of their skins with a top pick literally there for the taking. NM have been relatively competitive taking their list into context, and hawks are trying to squeeze out every win they can get...

The only occasion there was any suspected tanking was the kreuzer cup year. And we saw first hand how in negatively affected the culture and success of both clubs.

For all parts of a football club operation to make an executive decision to tank would be if they are in an absolute dire situation, in which that club would probably finish last even if they didn't try to tank. There is no way a coach in a professional environment would be on board with putting out a side purposely to cop beltings and be a detriment to their reputation and players confidence.

A lottery would be the least destructive process to implement, but imagine a good but underperforming list like freo or hawks ending up with the first pick... Would completely ruin the one great thing we have in our league which is the ability for cubs to cycle through good years and bad years, regenerating lists, keeping the league fresh, keeping supporters interested rather than clubs reaching the point of folding like we see overseas in monopolized leagues.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

No. This is not an issue, it's a media talking point.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[falcons2]

I see it quite differently. In an uncompromised draft, 1st gets pick 18 and 18th pick 19, 36 and then 37 and so on. With the exception of pick 1, the worst team gets to pick after the best team in each round. In a game like AFL that is ludicrous.
Tanking is more for media conversation. Some media outlets have been running discussions all year around trading, drafting and so on - wtf! Any chance of living in the moment?

 

[r_boy]

Typical a Kangas supporter would be against it. After all you are still wanting to lose every weekend. Don't lie to me about this weekend coming up. You want to lose it. Exactly my point and anyone arguing against it is only proving it more so.

That's not tanking

 

[Engimal v3]

Typical a Kangas supporter would be against it. After all you are still wanting to lose every weekend. Don't lie to me about this weekend coming up. You want to lose it. Exactly my point and anyone arguing against it is only proving it more so.

"If you disagree, I'm right!"

 

[Free Agent]

"If you disagree, I'm right!"

You're avatar is perfect for you. Exactly the type of person I'm imagining who I'm talking too. A clown

 

[Purple Suit]

Typical a Kangas supporter would be against it. After all you are still wanting to lose every weekend. Don't lie to me about this weekend coming up. You want to lose it. Exactly my point and anyone arguing against it is only proving it more so.

This take is terrible as is the way you are arguing it.

If you bothered doing a search someone raised this issue a week or do a go.

 

[GWT6]

The last few weeks have been horrible. Wanting you're side to lose to obtain a pick 1 is just is a horrible feeling.

Now that Eagles finally got a win to get us out of this feeling of wanting to lose the comp just really needs to change the draft system next year. And I'm saying this as Eagles will likely be bottom four. This might be demientrial to our club but there needs to be a lotto system for the bottom 4 clubs. AFL can't keep going on like this where the bottom four clubs have nothing to play for except trying to lose and get lowest possible like Kangas have been doing the last half of the season. After the game against the Bulldogs even though we won we lost the number 1 pick, there was a huge sense of relief that went with it. I'm sick of wanting my side to lose for a draft pick. It's ruined the integrity of the comp and the season for me. I haven't been able to enjoy watching my club at least wanting to win over the season. It just isn't enjoyable and winning should be enjoyable on every occasion.

Don't want to go through this exact same scenario next season. It needs to change for the good. Last place on the ladder should have something to fight for. Bottom 4 clubs need some initiative for winning games. Especially the bottom 2.

Lotto draft is the only way I feel it can be done. If a side is too bad in last place PP will always be in discussion but at least change the order of draft so it's not guaranteed. Take pick position out of clubs hands.

The stupid thing is, since the draft first began 40 years ago only one player would definitely go number one in a redraft - Nick Riewoldt. There are about 4 drafts where the number one probably was the best pick, and the rest vary between good players and busts.

Remember the tanking that Carlton did for Kruzer, Gibbs and Murphy? Or Melbourne for Scully and Watts? It set their teams back a decade with the poor culture, lack of development, culling of experience and inability to attract talent on and off the field.

Any Director or CEO of a club who thinks developing a losing culture to gain some magic beans is the best way to go has not studied the last 40 years of AFL history.

 

[GWT6]

Cool it with the antisemitism

What???? - don't start that shit.

 

[HugeJohnson]

Raise the father son eligibility to 200 games.

Scrap the NGA crap.

Bonus player payments for wins. Guarantee no player is going out there to lose if they have money on the line. One problem with this is you'll more likely than not have players wanting to move to more successful teams, leaving the cellar dwellars struggling even more to retain their players. Maybe there could be some sort of cap, say 10 wins is the max bonus payout.

Relegation is probably the strongest deterrent but we are a long way off that ever becoming a viable option for this competition. The only way I could see it happening in the conceivable future is splitting the current league up in to 2 divisions, with higher salary caps and prize money on offer to the first division. In reality this is not going to happen. Could you imagine Collingwood being down in the second division and Carlton and Essendon up in the first? AFL would miss out on too many of its precious blockbuster games. It's too risky.

The bottom 4 clubs should be prevented from trading their pick, and have them nominate 4 players who they would like to select. Assuming North Melbourne have pick 1 this year, they then have to randomly select one of these four names from a hat (so to speak). Means they don't have the privilege of taking their pick 1 in a traditional sense, but they still have the first chance to get him. The top 4 draft picks are disqualified from father/son, NGA, or any other pathway but compensated accordingly.

 

[Purple Suit]

The stupid thing is, since the draft first began 40 years ago only one player would definitely go number one in a redraft - Nick Riewoldt. There are about 4 drafts where the number one probably was the best pick, and the rest vary between good players and busts.

Remember the tanking that Carlton did for Kruzer, Gibbs and Murphy? Or Melbourne for Scully and Watts? It set their teams back a decade with the poor culture, lack of development, culling of experience and inability to attract talent on and off the field.

Any Director or CEO of a club who thinks developing a losing culture to gain some magic beans is the best way to go has not studied the last 40 years of AFL history.

Exactly, the best way to stop the media talking about tanking is to present the spoon at the end of the season. Fans won’t want Harley Reid if he comes with an offical “trophy”.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

The last few weeks have been horrible. Wanting you're side to lose to obtain a pick 1 is just is a horrible feeling.

Now that Eagles finally got a win to get us out of this feeling of wanting to lose the comp just really needs to change the draft system next year. And I'm saying this as Eagles will likely be bottom four. This might be demientrial to our club but there needs to be a lotto system for the bottom 4 clubs. AFL can't keep going on like this where the bottom four clubs have nothing to play for except trying to lose and get lowest possible like Kangas have been doing the last half of the season. After the game against the Bulldogs even though we won we lost the number 1 pick, there was a huge sense of relief that went with it. I'm sick of wanting my side to lose for a draft pick. It's ruined the integrity of the comp and the season for me. I haven't been able to enjoy watching my club at least wanting to win over the season. It just isn't enjoyable and winning should be enjoyable on every occasion.

Don't want to go through this exact same scenario next season. It needs to change for the good. Last place on the ladder should have something to fight for. Bottom 4 clubs need some initiative for winning games. Especially the bottom 2.

Lotto draft is the only way I feel it can be done. If a side is too bad in last place PP will always be in discussion but at least change the order of draft so it's not guaranteed. Take pick position out of clubs hands.

Nope. It's not going to happen.

Gold.Coast currently sit in the bottom 4.

Imagine if there was a draft lotto this year and they won the number 1 pick as well as the 3 academy gun selections they are likely to get in the first round too .

The draft is too compromised as it is already.

North played the long game right in getting Harley Reid and other benefits finishing last. Eagles didn't. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[speedy]

Let the AFL decide the draft order. Time to pull back the curtain.

 

[GWT6]

Raise the father son eligibility to 200 games.

Scrap the NGA crap.

Bonus player payments for wins. Guarantee no player is going out there to lose if they have money on the line. One problem with this is you'll more likely than not have players wanting to move to more successful teams, leaving the cellar dwellars struggling even more to retain their players. Maybe there could be some sort of cap, say 10 wins is the max bonus payout.

Relegation is probably the strongest deterrent but we are a long way off that ever becoming a viable option for this competition. The only way I could see it happening in the conceivable future is splitting the current league up in to 2 divisions, with higher salary caps and prize money on offer to the first division. In reality this is not going to happen. Could you imagine Collingwood being down in the second division and Carlton and Essendon up in the first? AFL would miss out on too many of its precious blockbuster games. It's too risky.

The bottom 4 clubs should be prevented from trading their pick, and have them nominate 4 players who they would like to select. Assuming North Melbourne have pick 1 this year, they then have to randomly select one of these four names from a hat (so to speak). Means they don't have the privilege of taking their pick 1 in a traditional sense, but they still have the first chance to get him. The top 4 draft picks are disqualified from father/son, NGA, or any other pathway but compensated accordingly.

That's not normally how it works - it's done at selection and player rotation - like when Fevola said he got benched to stop him kicking goals .
The players always want to win, with the exception of the Melbourne Carlton "Kruzer Cup" - the Carlton players were instructed to not win, they were told to not go near Travis Johnston. The sight of him running down the wing with the ball and Carlton players running away from him was one of the most disgraceful things I witnessed by a team.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

All this talk about tanking but I see none of it. WC played out of their skins with a top pick literally there for the taking. NM have been relatively competitive taking their list into context, and hawks are trying to squeeze out every win they can get...

The only occasion there was any suspected tanking was the kreuzer cup year. And we saw first hand how in negatively affected the culture and success of both clubs.

For all parts of a football club operation to make an executive decision to tank would be if they are in an absolute dire situation, in which that club would probably finish last even if they didn't try to tank. There is no way a coach in a professional environment would be on board with putting out a side purposely to cop beltings and be a detriment to their reputation and players confidence.

A lottery would be the least destructive process to implement, but imagine a good but underperforming list like freo or hawks ending up with the first pick... Would completely ruin the one great thing we have in our league which is the ability for cubs to cycle through good years and bad years, regenerating lists, keeping the league fresh, keeping supporters interested rather than clubs reaching the point of folding like we see overseas in monopolized leagues.

How is Hawthorn an underperfoming list ?

A lot of people like myself tipped them to win yhe spoon this season after such a clean out of experienced players last year. If anything they have probably overachieved this season.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

A system like this intrigues me.
A lottery between the bottom 4 teams for the 1st 4 picks, then the rest of the bottom 10 (those who don't play finals) rounds out the first round in ladder order (so only 10 picks total in the 1st round). Then, starting at pick #11, all teams enter the 2nd round in reverse ladder order, as per normal, except the 2nd round runs from pick #11 through to #28 (instead of the traditional 19-36). Then the 3rd round is all clubs again, but run in actual ladder order.
So the teams who miss out on finals get to double dip in the first 20 picks. Teams who played finals don't get a 1st round pick, but then get 2 picks in the 21-36 range.

*Team who finishes 1st getting picks 28-29 concurrently.
*Team who finishes last gets one of picks 1-4, pick 11 and pick 46.
*Team who just misses finals gets pick 10, pick 20 and pick 37.
*Team who just scrapes into finals gets picks 21 and 36.

I'm sure there's some bugs to iron out, but I only just thought of it.

 

[Off Tap]

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So theoretically by your measure Melbourne could win the flag AND get the #1 pick.

I understand that it's an abnormal situation due to the Jackson trade but not really fair for the clubs who genuinely need the assistance.

We need to scrap all F/S, NGS's and PP's and have an uncompromised draft. Crazy that we still use the secret herbs and spices recipe to determine the draft order.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Lotto draft is the only way I feel it can be done. If a side is too bad in last place PP will always be in discussion but at least change the order of draft so it's not guaranteed. Take pick position out of clubs hands.

What do you do about the clubs placed 11th - 14th for example, who come the last half a dozen rounds of any given season, may not be able to make finals?

You would have exactly the same scenario that we currently have, but worse. You'd have clubs who probably could have made finals if not for a couple of bad games, tanking games and potentially vying for the 1st pick. Instead of 2-3 teams potentially tanking, you could be looking at 8 or so.

A lottery isn't the solution IMO. Just because the Americans do it, doesn't mean we have to. This season for example, could see Fremanlte win that lottery, when they played finals last year. You cannot tell me that they need pick 1 more than North or West Coast...

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Anyone who thinks that we as North Melbourne supporters are celebrating another spoon and wouldn't have it any other way has absolute rocks in their head.

I honestly doubt any of us would want our club to play to lose (tank).

The cold hard fact of the matter is that we are just terrible. This year we have been more competitive than the previous three and have found ourselves in winnable positions but when our opposition raises their game, we are unable to go with them.

As a supporter, the last 4 years have been absolutely demoralising. I no longer watch games hoping we will win because if I did, I would probably would have gone mentally insane by now. Instead, i find myself just looking for small positives here and there that show we might be heading in the right direction. And that just really sucks.

There's nothing better than going to a game believing you have a genuine chance to win. I almost forget what this is like because right now, it's nothing more than a distant memory.

And so all you're left with to be excited about is the draft with the hope that you just might get a couple of kids that can help turn this around for the future.

Whether that is a number 1 pick or not, i don't care that much. The number 1 pick doesn't always turn out to be the best player anyway. Besides, the last two drafts, we haven't even been eligible to pick the best player in the draft anyway (Daicos/ Ashcroft). That said, I am all for the F/S rule.

What is more important i think right now for most North Melbourne supporters is what sort of assistance we can get to help pull us out of this mess because 10 or so wins in 4 years is absolutely soul destroying! None of us would choose to be in a position where we're having to ask for this either.

I just want to be able to be competitive again and the draft is the only real mechanism that can make that happen so it's not hard to understand why that would be of such importance to us.

The fact that some of us might be celebrating the number 1 pick is probably because we have nothing else to celebrate. I think given the choice, none of us would want it to be this way but that's our reality.

 

[Kwality]

The sentiment is nice, but we're genuinely just a bit s**t

Unfortunately there are not enough players up to the required standard* to fill the lists of 18 clubs & its more obvious this season than it usually is.

* to be competitive in the AFL competition.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

So theoretically by your measure Melbourne could win the flag AND get the #1 pick.

I understand that it's an abnormal situation due to the Jackson trade but not really fair for the clubs who genuinely need the assistance.

We need to scrap all F/S, NGS's and PP's and have an uncompromised draft. Crazy that we still use the secret herbs and spices recipe to determine the draft order.

That's just part and parcel of trading. You have to give up something good to get something good.
That kind of speculative trading happens in all sports. Some have protected picks though.

Personally, I'd only allow trading of contracted players. Free agents can sign wherever they want. You can still have restricted free agency, where the club can match an offer in hopes of keeping the player, but the player gets right of refusal. You could do a sign and trade of both clubs agree to it, but now we're getting into different areas and not the draft system.

 

[Blackas87]

Agree it’s terrible for fans wanting their team to lose.

The draft needs to be scrapped entirely. A lottery system for the bottom 4 would just create fans of the 5th bottom team and teams below to want their club to lose to give them the chance at pick 1.

 

[Lia]

You can't win when you're in our situation and North is perhaps the same, criticised when losing close games, criticised (rightfully) when flogged, criticised when winning in an upset. Zero issue with North getting pick one, the McKay compensation is where the discussion needs to go.